2021/22 - CFL Offseason - Non-Back-to-Back Grey Cup Champion Thread

[coach17]

Ouch, that's awful expensive for flag football, for a lot of people that don't qualify for assistance. When we ran our tackle program in the North End in the 70's and 80's we found ways to reduce the costs including having socials and bingos to support the clubs. We raised our profile from one team of 20 kids to a dozen with over 600 kids in less than a decade by doing this.  The key was keeping it affordable and having good programs with knowledgeable coaches. It's no wonder that kids sports are mostly soccer now as that's what working parents can easily budget for. To keep kids in these programs we need to find unique ways to fund and keep costs low. $245 for 8-10 GAMES OF FLAG FOOTBALL IS CRAZY! Sounds like they are trying to offload field costs which is just stupid! I remember when we bought the Hawkeye's field for $1 and the city agreed to cover the taxes for the next century. I guess things are done differently now.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

thinking there's a lot more equipment cost in football, which is where the extra expense comes from.....but still.....if you want kids to play, you have to find a way to be competitive with other stuff. That said, $245 doesn't seem like that much to me, and seems WAYYYYYYY cheaper than hockey, which I can't understand how parents pay for that every year...

Can't speak for Winnipeg & Manitoba as I live in Calgary but for football here in Alberta there is no cost for equipment at any level. Teams provide the equipment. Parents don't have to go out & buy anything other than cleats & gloves for their kids. The cost of the equipment is built into the fees. There's a fitting day before the first practice. Then the kids have to hand the equipment back at season's end. Parents do have to provide a postdated cheque for an amount that would financially hurt (like $1,000) if the equipment goes unreturned by a certain date or if things are damaged or missing & that's it. It never gets cashed if the equipment is returned & is useable for the next season. Tackle football in Alberta is one of the most affordable sports there is. 

[Booch]

On 2022-03-19 at 6:39 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

Every offensive player seems to like it. Claim it'll open up the boundary side of the field which is underutilized. Booch? What do you think?

yeah...will make the whole field playable and actually cause teams to account for it now...I'd like to see that and actually have always wondered why they were set they way they were

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, Booch said:

yeah...will make the whole field playable and actually cause teams to account for it now...I'd like to see that and actually have always wondered why they were set they way they were

In the past 15 years, have you ever known the CFL to be proactive? We used to be the league that revolutionized the game, Others would follow our lead. The CFL seems afraid to do that now. It's been shell shocked financially. 

[HardCoreBlue]

On 2022-03-16 at 4:20 PM, rebusrankin said:

I think they'll go to 4 downs because Ambroise is that dumb and the league will die.

I would add it's not that most CFL fans are resistant to change.

We do tend to be resistant to change that seems to be change just for the sake of change and more open to meaningful change with the hope it helps the CFL continuously be a better and more attractable product.

[Noeller]

this is interesting....players chiming in that the locker rooms have negative vibes because NI OL are being paid much more than others....

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

this is interesting....players chiming in that the locker rooms have negative vibes because NI OL are being paid much more than others....

It's up to GMs to sort this out, I believe. Are we going to implement salary caps by position? 

[bryan35]

13 minutes ago, Noeller said:

this is interesting....players chiming in that the locker rooms have negative vibes because NI OL are being paid much more than others....

CFLPA will resist that. Think most of the player reps are Canadian. Keeps their salaries high.

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

this is interesting....players chiming in that the locker rooms have negative vibes because NI OL are being paid much more than others....

Players as in Wilder. I'm not saying it's NOT an issue, but it's easy to believe Wilder would get his panties in a bunch over it.

I'm not sure I completely agree with that persons assessment of the OL talent. I believe all the TOP OLs in the league have more CNDs than americans on them.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Bigblue204

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

this is interesting....players chiming in that the locker rooms have negative vibes because NI OL are being paid much more than others....

Water is wet. Americans been pissed off for ages that less talented Canadians make more and have more job security since forever.

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

I'm not sure I completely agree with that persons assessment of the OL talent. I believe all the TOP OLs in the league have more CNDs than americans on them.

I would suspect that is in large part due to a focus by the respective gms on making sure they have the Canadians who are good enough.

[Tracker]

If the American players had better options, they would be elsewhere. This is, in fact, the Canadian Football League.

[GCn20]

On 2022-03-21 at 4:23 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

Can't speak for Winnipeg & Manitoba as I live in Calgary but for football here in Alberta there is no cost for equipment at any level. Teams provide the equipment. Parents don't have to go out & buy anything other than cleats & gloves for their kids. The cost of the equipment is built into the fees. There's a fitting day before the first practice. Then the kids have to hand the equipment back at season's end. Parents do have to provide a postdated cheque for an amount that would financially hurt (like $1,000) if the equipment goes unreturned by a certain date or if things are damaged or missing & that's it. It never gets cashed if the equipment is returned & is useable for the next season. Tackle football in Alberta is one of the most affordable sports there is. 

Same in Manitoba.

22 hours ago, Noeller said:

this is interesting....players chiming in that the locker rooms have negative vibes because NI OL are being paid much more than others....

The level of POed is not that high amongst players towards NATs in the locker room. To a man, every IMP is gonna dislike the NAT content rule but they aren't going to beef about the team mates that benefit from it in the locker room. Lalji is out to lunch on that one. The players know full well no one in the locker room makes the rules, and they won't blame any player for squeezing out as much salary as they possibly can.

Edited March 23, 2022 by GCn20

[bigg jay]

9 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Same in Manitoba.

The level of POed is not that high amongst players towards NATs in the locker room. To a man, every IMP is gonna dislike the NAT content rule but they aren't going to beef about the team mates that benefit from it in the locker room. Lalji is out to lunch on that one. The players know full well no one in the locker room makes the rules, and they won't blame any player for squeezing out as much salary as they possibly can.

The guy with the burner account, that Farhan is replying to, is not a current player either so how much insight he has is questionable.  In another tweet, the guy mentioned buying some of the "Our Balls are Bigger" shirts for his kids when they came out (which was 1996) so unless he's a coach, his info is decades old.

[Tracker]

50 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

The guy with the burner account, that Farhan is replying to, is not a current player either so how much insight he has is questionable.  In another tweet, the guy mentioned buying some of the "Our Balls are Bigger" shirts for his kids when they came out (which was 1996) so unless he's a coach, his info is decades old.

And considering that there are girls playing the game now, the T-shirts may be a little bit passe'.

[Noeller]

[Noeller]

And along with Naylor's tweet, here's an accompanying pissy article talking about how people that resist 4 downs are hurting the league: 

https://www.tsn.ca/don-t-expect-radical-changes-to-the-cfl-this-off-season-1.1774952

It’s never been easy to promote the idea of change in the Canadian Football League.

Tradition, for better or for worse, has always been its guiding principle, which is what you might expect from a league that has the same number of teams as it did 70 years ago.

Significant change or innovation is usually met with fierce opposition from loyalists, be it fans or members of the media. That’s exactly what’s happening with the debate raging over whether the league should consider adopting four downs instead of three.

To be clear, the CFL is not engaged in a debate about switching its game to four downs and American rules, although you might think so, given the tone of the debate.

It is, however, in the midst of a review process where nothing is off the table. That process is stoking fear some elements of the Canadian game could be endangered, including the number of downs.

Time for a little history and context on how we got here.

For most of the CFL’s existence, three downs versus four has never been a serious debate. Sure, you’d hear the odd coach or general manager from the U.S. bemoan some of the rules from time to time. But never did the league seriously consider adopting four downs. Not even when it expanded to the U.S. from 1993 to 1995.

Three downs were considered by most an asset, not a problem. As a result, it was rarely discussed.

That changed about a year ago when the CFL announced it was in talks with the new owners of the XFL about collaboration. While the league never officially confirmed the talks were about a merger, everyone understood they might ultimately go in that direction.

That instantly put four downs into the discussion. Privately, there were people at senior levels of the CFL who were willing to make that sacrifice if the business case with the XFL made sense.

Ultimately, it was the business case (or lack thereof) that killed the XFL merger. It was not a valiant stand for three downs.

Then, during the 2021 season, something happened.

The CFL had a subpar year entertainment-wise on the field. Scoring was down, big plays disappeared, and punting ruled. With quarterbacks getting mangled week after week, the game at times degenerated to what in some eyes was an unacceptable standard.

Some of that was undoubtedly due to the players missing the 2020 season and being hampered in their preparation for the 2021 season by COVID-19 restrictions. But the league wasn’t willing to chalk it all up to the pandemic, especially since many of the defensive trends predate the lost season.

So, the decision was made to look under the hood at the game and perhaps consider changes or innovations previously dismissed. A process called a “product review” was hatched.

That process has included the league reaching out to its teams for ideas on how to improve the game, with the primary objectives being to create better game flow and more offence.

It’s a process that continues this week as coaches, GMs and other officials meet in Toronto in advance of this weekend’s CFL Combine.

But most of it is shrouded in secrecy, as per usual in the CFL.

So, all it took to set the downs debate ablaze was a reporter suggesting last week that Genius Sports, the league’s new data and marketing partner, was pushing for a switch to four downs.

That suggestion ignited on Twitter, with retired and current players debating fans on the subject. Even those as revered three-time Grey Cup champion head coach Marc Trestman entered the conversation in defence of three downs, to great fanfare.

For the record, the league says Genius Sports has nothing to do with whether it looks at three downs versus four. But this horse has left the barn, so expect it to be the theme of a lot of CFL conversations until this matter is put to bed.

Standing up for three downs seems to be as much about preserving Canadiana as it is about the preservation of a unique brand of football, which maybe shouldn’t surprise us, and does raise the emotional stakes.

In general, radical changes in a sport rarely happen over the course of one off-season. They are usually debated and discussed and shelved for more research. Then they are either resurrected or die a slow death on a shelf under a blanket of dust.

The destiny of four downs in Canadian football is probably going to depend on what the game looks like in 2022, 2023 and beyond, after the anticipated application of several smaller, less dramatic tweaks expected to try and tune-up the game.

For in a league based upon and bound by tradition, it’s going to take a lot more to push such radical change across the finish line.

[Goalie]

Why do they think adding another down would improve the product? It would mean more running plays... 3 downs is exciting cuz of the passing aspect.. big play potential  

4 downs won't happen despite how bad the Argos want it 

[Mark H.]

5 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Same in Manitoba.

The level of POed is not that high amongst players towards NATs in the locker room. To a man, every IMP is gonna dislike the NAT content rule but they aren't going to beef about the team mates that benefit from it in the locker room. Lalji is out to lunch on that one. The players know full well no one in the locker room makes the rules, and they won't blame any player for squeezing out as much salary as they possibly can.

I am pretty sure top drawer OL like Stanley Bryant are paid the same or more than Canadian OL.

[Noeller]

Really nice that the CFL is broadcasting this. I'm stoked to watch as much as I can... 

 

 

[17to85]

52 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Really nice that the CFL is broadcasting this. I'm stoked to watch as much as I can... 

 

 

Meanwhile Rider fans are going to be super disappointed when they tune into the combine and don't see any wheat harvesting going on. 

[the watcher]

13 hours ago, Noeller said:

And along with Naylor's tweet, here's an accompanying pissy article talking about how people that resist 4 downs are hurting the league: 

https://www.tsn.ca/don-t-expect-radical-changes-to-the-cfl-this-off-season-1.1774952

It’s never been easy to promote the idea of change in the Canadian Football League.

Tradition, for better or for worse, has always been its guiding principle, which is what you might expect from a league that has the same number of teams as it did 70 years ago.

Significant change or innovation is usually met with fierce opposition from loyalists, be it fans or members of the media. That’s exactly what’s happening with the debate raging over whether the league should consider adopting four downs instead of three.

To be clear, the CFL is not engaged in a debate about switching its game to four downs and American rules, although you might think so, given the tone of the debate.

It is, however, in the midst of a review process where nothing is off the table. That process is stoking fear some elements of the Canadian game could be endangered, including the number of downs.

Time for a little history and context on how we got here.

For most of the CFL’s existence, three downs versus four has never been a serious debate. Sure, you’d hear the odd coach or general manager from the U.S. bemoan some of the rules from time to time. But never did the league seriously consider adopting four downs. Not even when it expanded to the U.S. from 1993 to 1995.

Three downs were considered by most an asset, not a problem. As a result, it was rarely discussed.

That changed about a year ago when the CFL announced it was in talks with the new owners of the XFL about collaboration. While the league never officially confirmed the talks were about a merger, everyone understood they might ultimately go in that direction.

That instantly put four downs into the discussion. Privately, there were people at senior levels of the CFL who were willing to make that sacrifice if the business case with the XFL made sense.

Ultimately, it was the business case (or lack thereof) that killed the XFL merger. It was not a valiant stand for three downs.

Then, during the 2021 season, something happened.

The CFL had a subpar year entertainment-wise on the field. Scoring was down, big plays disappeared, and punting ruled. With quarterbacks getting mangled week after week, the game at times degenerated to what in some eyes was an unacceptable standard.

Some of that was undoubtedly due to the players missing the 2020 season and being hampered in their preparation for the 2021 season by COVID-19 restrictions. But the league wasn’t willing to chalk it all up to the pandemic, especially since many of the defensive trends predate the lost season.

So, the decision was made to look under the hood at the game and perhaps consider changes or innovations previously dismissed. A process called a “product review” was hatched.

That process has included the league reaching out to its teams for ideas on how to improve the game, with the primary objectives being to create better game flow and more offence.

It’s a process that continues this week as coaches, GMs and other officials meet in Toronto in advance of this weekend’s CFL Combine.

But most of it is shrouded in secrecy, as per usual in the CFL.

So, all it took to set the downs debate ablaze was a reporter suggesting last week that Genius Sports, the league’s new data and marketing partner, was pushing for a switch to four downs.

That suggestion ignited on Twitter, with retired and current players debating fans on the subject. Even those as revered three-time Grey Cup champion head coach Marc Trestman entered the conversation in defence of three downs, to great fanfare.

For the record, the league says Genius Sports has nothing to do with whether it looks at three downs versus four. But this horse has left the barn, so expect it to be the theme of a lot of CFL conversations until this matter is put to bed.

Standing up for three downs seems to be as much about preserving Canadiana as it is about the preservation of a unique brand of football, which maybe shouldn’t surprise us, and does raise the emotional stakes.

In general, radical changes in a sport rarely happen over the course of one off-season. They are usually debated and discussed and shelved for more research. Then they are either resurrected or die a slow death on a shelf under a blanket of dust.

The destiny of four downs in Canadian football is probably going to depend on what the game looks like in 2022, 2023 and beyond, after the anticipated application of several smaller, less dramatic tweaks expected to try and tune-up the game.

For in a league based upon and bound by tradition, it’s going to take a lot more to push such radical change across the finish line.

I swear most of this talk, the   XFL and 4 downs comes from the fact that the media in Toronto , and Toronto in general feel like they are to big for the CFL. It's a " we are a world class city and the CFLis a secondary minor league  " thing. The leauge had one down year ( in the middle of the pandemic ) so let's blow up a 100 + year league  ??? It's just a convient excuse. Maybe those people in power in Toronto would be far better to spend their time figuring out  how to properly promote the game. Anyone seriously suggesting that someone in Toronto will suddenly say " Oh! The CFL switched to 4 downs  ! Let's go support a team we never have before ! "  is off their rocker.  What a joke. 

Edit : The NFL was happy because scoring was up to 22.8 points per game post pandemic.

The CFL  is down to 43.1 points per game last year.. Yes let's panic and change the basics of the game.

Edited March 24, 2022 by the watcher
Add on

[camper_2]

32 minutes ago, the watcher said:

I swear most of this talk, the   XFL and 4 downs comes from the fact that the media in Toronto , and Toronto in general feel like they are to big for the CFL. It's a " we are a world class city and the CFLis a secondary minor league  " thing. The leauge had one down year ( in the middle of the pandemic ) so let's blow up a 100 + year league  ??? It's just a convient excuse. Maybe those people in power in Toronto would be far better to spend their time figuring out  how to properly promote the game. Anyone seriously suggesting that someone in Toronto will suddenly say " Oh! The CFL switched to 4 downs  ! Let's go support a team we never have before ! "  is off their rocker.  What a joke. 

Edit : The NFL was happy because scoring was up to 22.8 points per game post pandemic.

The CFL  is down to 43.1 points per game last year.. Yes let's panic and change the basics of the game.

Absolutely, bang on... and lets try the concept of talking No Change for a few years. 

The real problem is Toronto, perhaps changing things there would help, starting with the thinking. The entire group needs to be brought down to earth in that area.

I get it and why the feelings: shortly, the NHL playoffs will start, the Leafs will make a quick exit and all will be back to normal (Leaf nation will be jumping of the CN Tower). Then, TSN will have full blown 24/7 coverage of the Leaf failures until puck drop for next season, baseball will be on until the Jays last pitch, plus we get a sprinkling of Raptors. Same old, same old...talk about needing change.. Other then the poor attendance last year, the CFL Toronto based team wasn't that bad.

Give me 3 down football as it is today. Dare I say it, even watching a Rider game, has its good points!!!

[bigg jay]

59 minutes ago, camper_2 said:

Give me 3 down football as it is today. Dare I say it, even watching a Rider game, has its good points!!!

Watching them lose is always a good time.

[GCn20]

16 hours ago, Mark H. said:

I am pretty sure top drawer OL like Stanley Bryant are paid the same or more than Canadian OL.

Sure, Of course there are star IMPs that make just as much as NATs. The comparable is a low/mid tier IMP to a low/mid tier NAT. The difference in salary is pretty staggering. If Bryant was a NAT he is likely 50-60k a year richer than he is now too. That being said, supply vs demand and that's why the NATs get the money compared to an IMP of equal calibre. I think some of the players resent getting beat out of jobs by players based on their passports, and they may not like that NAT ham n' eggers get paid as much as many quality IMP starters but that's not a dressing room issue imo. It is something that very likely many IMPs dislike about our league rules but almost certainly don't have hard feelings towards the NATs in their dressing rooms that sign the best contract they can get.

Pretty sure that every IMP in the Winnipeg dressing room is pretty happy for Demski, or Wolitarsky, (eg) when they sign new contracts. Just as, I am sure, our NATs are quite happy for the IMPs when they get new contracts with big raises.

Edited March 24, 2022 by GCn20

[JCon]

Some people need to remember that they are guests in this country.