2021/22 - CFL Offseason - Non-Back-to-Back Grey Cup Champion Thread

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Never? You forget some of the good games he played and focus on the bad ones. He's a better passer than you give him credit for.

well that's easy to do...

[Bubba Zanetti]

Mechanics aside, i really think people are letting his devastating running ability and his legendary Grey Cup celebrating blur their memory about Streveler. Even after a couple of seasons with us he was still prone to horrendous decisions and brain farts in the passing game, often forcing throws and flat out missing wide open guys. People forget he started 7 games in a row during the latter part of 2019 and had a TD/INT ratio of 7-11, throwing multiple INT's in 5 of 7 games. His poor decision making followed him to Arizona where he was ultimately released after being outperformed by 35 year old journeyman Colt McCoy?!? He's shown flashes but is wayyyyyy too inconsistent to be trusted as a starter. Like Noeller said, i love the guy but he is not a #1 QB in any league.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Bubba Zanetti

[Noeller]

Just now, Bubba Zanetti said:

Mechanics aside, i really think people are letting his devastating running ability and his legendary Grey Cup celebrating blur their memory about Streveler. Even after a couple of seasons with us he was still prone to horrendous decisions and brain farts in the passing game, often forcing throws and flat out missing wide open guys. People forget he started 7 games in a row during the latter part of 2019 and had a TD/INT ratio of 7-11, throwing multiple INT's in 5 of 7 games. His poor decision making followed him to Arizona where he was ultimately released after being outperformed by Colt McCoy?!? Like Noeller says, i love the guy but he is not a #1 QB in any league.

could not agree with this more....

[17to85]

I want to see Streveler in a non-lapo offense before I write him off. Lapo made him a gimmick qb but he came in with a passing pedigree. I mean Jesus christ Cody Fajardo is making it as a starting qb and streveler is many times the passer he is.

[Jesse]

I do not believe Strev is a #1 guy and don't believe he can transform himself into a successful passer.

I would still prefer him to any other option on the market should Collaros leave.

[Bubba Zanetti]

2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I do not believe Strev is a #1 guy and don't believe he can transform himself into a successful passer.

I would still prefer him to any other option on the market should Collaros leave.

So you'd rather go with a guy who you dont think can be successful as a QB over guys who have been successful for many years in this league(Harris, Masoli)? Seems odd.

[TrueBlue4ever]

19 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I want to see Streveler in a non-lapo offense before I write him off. Lapo made him a gimmick qb but he came in with a passing pedigree. I mean Jesus christ Cody Fajardo is making it as a starting qb and streveler is many times the passer he is.

Your need to slag LaPo as a cancer for offensive players is starting to border on the pathological.  

As a starter with full access to the LaPo playbook in 2018 and 2019 Streveler went 4-7. Nichols in that same offensive system  went 38-17 from 2016-19. In 2019, Streveler as a starter threw 6 TDs and 12 INTs with a passer rating of 72.0. Nichols on the same offence had 15 TDs and 5 INTs with a rating of 107.2. Teams figured out that if you contained Streveler’s running and forced him to throw, he was much less likely to to beat you. Kyle Walters saw that too and knew Streveler was not good enough, so he got Collaros who had a rating of 109.4 in his one regular season start and went 3-0 in the playoffs. 3 QBs, same system, same OC. Two successes, one with less than adequate results when put in the starting role.

Frankly, LaPo was the best thing to happen to Streveler. LaPo did not make him a gimmick QB. Streveler showed the  limitations in his passing game and LaPo was required to adapt a streamlined playbook for his skill set, tailoring a game plan around his strengths and not allowing other teams to spy him as easily with the RPO schemes. The success of this limited playbook for Chris helped the Bombers win again and landed him a look in the NFL with a $1.5 million payday, more than any CFLer over that same time. Streveler was not getting a NFL opportunity based on his passing game. 

Having said all that, maybe 2 years in the NFL with some scout team reps and maturity as a player has helped develop his passing game. Hopefully he has used his NFL time to become a Henry Burris, and not a Casey Printers. 

[17to85]

Keep defending lapo, won't make him suddenly a winner. Nichols was better than streveler? No ****. I am one of the biggest advocates here for what Nichols brought to the team. 

 

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

So you'd rather go with a guy who you dont think can be successful as a QB over guys who have been successful for many years in this league(Harris, Masoli)? Seems odd.

I don’t believe in their ability at this point in their careers either. And both come with off the field issues.

Strev at least has his physical gifts and will rally guys around him.

[camper_2]

6 hours ago, Jesse said:

I don’t believe in their ability at this point in their careers either. And both come with off the field issues.

Strev at least has his physical gifts and will rally guys around him.

So, when Zack arrived here, the fan base had concerns regarding him being able to play week in and week out (health wise and if he had reached his expiry date). Walters and company did their due diligences & I believe hoped for the best. The result has been a winning quarterback for the organization. The cost of getting Zack was a first rounder (Theren Churchill) plus a 3rd round (Dylan Giffen) for Zack and a 5th rounder (Marc Legghio). At the time in my opinion it was costly, seeing what Toronto gave up a unknown 4th rounder (Kian Schaffer-Baker) to get him from Saskatchewan, just a couple months prior (sweet deal for Saskatchewan). 

Now here we are today. Zack is back at the top of his game and should be paid accordingly (top paid quarterback in this league). A fair deal to both the player & team is warranted, as both parties have done what was required (no need to explain further, its a good working situation for both sides). So a silly Michael R. salary that was given in 2019 or a out of line contract such as the one in the province next to us, should never come to play. Many of the posters on here have debated salary for ZC8, which I agree with many. I have provided my thoughts on the subject as well over the course of the past few days.                                                                                       

But as I sit and watch things unfold and read many of the posts on here, I think:                                                                                                                                                     Could this team be successful without ZC8?                                                                                                                                                                                                         How would this team look & play without him?                                                                                                                                                                                                   Can this team 3peat with another veteran CFL quarterback with the same core of players that we have?                                                                                                           Would I as a fan sitting in the stands, know that we are going to win at the conclusion of a game i.e. Western Final versus Sask, 2021? A few years back, I never had that feeling, it was "how in hell are we going to find a way to lose the game".                                                                                                                                                       The two vet quarterback currently available are they able to win with this group and can they win the big one? Can they walk into this locker room and display leadership, team attitude first & fit within the locker room? Some negative things being said, is that talk or the real deal?     

At the conclusion, my hope is for a return here sooner, than later by Zack and his family, with a signed 2 year contract. But, if things go south, "due diligences" will be needed, Kyle & company.                                                                           

 

[Noeller]

Further to our Strev convo: 
 

 

[Nolby]

23 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Further to our Strev convo: 
 

 

It's no offense but he's the CFL version of Cam Newton. Can run the ball extremely well,run RPO's but when it comes down to strictly throwing Westwood isn't wrong. I'd kill to have him back but McGuire is just fine here.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Nolby

[SpeedFlex27]

9 minutes ago, Nolby said:

It's no offense but he's the CFL version of Cam Newton. Can run the ball extremely well,run RPO's but when it comes down to strictly throwing Westwood isn't wrong. I'd kill to have him back but McGuire is just fine here.

Not sold on McGuire. I think we can do better.

[Geebrr]

58 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Further to our Strev convo: 
 

 

He is coming back here if he comes back north.

Book it. 

[wbbfan]

15 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I want to see Streveler in a non-lapo offense before I write him off. Lapo made him a gimmick qb but he came in with a passing pedigree. I mean Jesus christ Cody Fajardo is making it as a starting qb and streveler is many times the passer he is.

I would argue that no qb ever got any better under plop. 

Play calling and play book aside he was never a qbs oc. 

[blue_gold_84]

16 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Never? You forget some of the good games he played and focus on the bad ones. He's a better passer than you give him credit for.

Some? He had two "good" games as a passer to start the 2018 season and struggled as a starter ever since. A decent game here and there in 2019 doesn't gloss that over, either. His 81.8 passer rating in the CFL over 35 games demonstrates his inability as a passing QB.

Chris Streveler is a ******* legend around here, which is undebatable. He'll go down in local Blue Bombers lore for his grit, tenacity, and other intangibles as a member of this team, but none of that should blind you from the fact he leaves quite a bit to be desired as a pure passing QB. And at 27 years old, it's not unreasonable to think that may not change.

15 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I want to see Streveler in a non-lapo offense before I write him off. Lapo made him a gimmick qb but he came in with a passing pedigree. I mean Jesus christ Cody Fajardo is making it as a starting qb and streveler is many times the passer he is.

Then look at his game tape with the Cardinals. You want to blame LaPolice yet again (quelle surprise) but Streveler struggled as a passer under another OC all the same. He suited up for 7 games in the NFL and his passer rating is 39.3, so trying to pin the blame on your favourite CFL bogeyman is laughable. 

And claiming he's a better passer than Fajardo is nothing more than complete fanboy drivel. Be better.

Edited January 20, 2022 by blue_gold_84
spelling

[Bigblue204]

43 minutes ago, Nolby said:

It's no offense but he's the CFL version of Cam Newton. Can run the ball extremely well,run RPO's but when it comes down to strictly throwing Westwood isn't wrong. I'd kill to have him back but McGuire is just fine here.

 

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Further to our Strev convo: 
 

 

I mean....Cam did go to the super bowl.

And I'm never gonna put too much weight behind Westwoods ability to scout QBs. 

3 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Some? He had two "good" games as a passer to start the 2018 season and struggled as a starter ever since. A decent game here and there in 2019 doesn't gloss that over, either. His 81.8 passer rating in the CFL over 35 games demonstrates his inability as a passing QB.

Chris Streveler is a ******* legend around here, which is undebatable. He'll go down in local Blue Bombers lore for his grit, tenacity, and other intangibles as a member of this team, but none of that should blind you from the fact he leaves quite a bit to be desired as a pure passing QB. And at 27 years old, it's not unreasonable to think that may not change.

Then look at this game tape with the Cardinals. You want to blame LaPolice yet again (quelle surprise) but Streveler struggled as a passer under another OC all the same. He suited up for 7 games in the NFL and his passer rating is 39.3, so trying to pin the blame on your favourite CFL bogeyman is laughable. 

And claiming he's a better passer than Fajardo is nothing more than complete fanboy drivel. Be better.

The cardinals where they MADE him a pocket passer as a rookie? That cardinals game? After that game every single CFL fan was wondering why they forced him to stay in the pocket instead of doing RPOs or even a roll out every now and then, when that clearly is not his strong point.

I'm having a hard time understanding why people can't see the differences in Strevs game vs Nichols and why the playbook didn't fit Strev as well as it fit Nichols/Collaros. They play different games. It's not surprising to see why he had his struggles.

Like I said, 12 games starting is not a big enough sample to decide either way.

[blue_gold_84]

5 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

The cardinals where they MADE him a pocket passer as a rookie? That cardinals game? After that game every single CFL fan was wondering why they forced him to stay in the pocket instead of doing RPOs or even a roll out every now and then, when that clearly is not his strong point.

I was simply pointing out an instance where he was under the tutelage of another OC and didn't fare well. It's not a matter of it being all LaPolice's fault Streveler has struggled as a passer.

[Bigblue204]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

I was simply pointing out an instance where he was under the tutelage of another OC and didn't fare well. It's not a matter of it being all LaPolice's fault Streveler has struggled as a passer.

I understand that, but you are also leaving out the possibility that BOTH OCs mismanaged him.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Further to our Strev convo: 
 

 

The **** does Westwood know about playing qb? Guy is nutter than squirrel turds.

[blue_gold_84]

2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I understand that, but you are also leaving out the possibility that BOTH OCs mismanaged him.

Nope. I just don't think it's anywhere near remotely as bad as a certain poster has tried to claim in this thread.

[Booch]

Lapo isnt a good QB developer...that can't be denied...he will thrive with an established QB to run his style of offence....He also tho stagnates receivers, and is probabaly the worst O/C coach to have to develop a new guy, and get the most out of him....we missed out on some decent guys actually coming here soley based on him being the OC...You can believe or doubt it if you want, but it is not assumption

Strev...totally not a pocket passer...never was...but used right, with threat of run and the who's gonna get the ball, with the right OC calling plays, he can exploit teams with downfield passes not needing pin point accuracy, and accuracy can be learned, worked on, and made better....strength...velocity at a pro level is basically an is what it is thing...so he can probably be made into a very effective starter, not a prolific passer by any means, but win a lot of games....Tom Burgess sucked throwing the ball....but won a cup here....with a wicked defense...which is what we have here.

To expect him to be a highest rated passer isnt his schtick, and doesnt mean he can't/won't win and from what I know of him he not all about the money...he wants to be a part of a team...contribute...and win....he knows the recipe and routine here...if he heads north...all sides will make it work here...book it

[Jesse]

I can't see Strev coming back to Winnipeg if we have ZC on the roster (as much as I'd love to see him back).

There will probably be better opportunities out there for him.

[blue_gold_84]

[SpeedFlex27]

53 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I would argue that no qb ever got any better under plop. 

Play calling and play book aside he was never a qbs oc. 

He was a D3 receiver. Never played pro football. Never played qb. His offense is based on his knowledge as a receiver. He isn't a qb coach. Jacques Chapdelaine was the same way. A receiver at SFU & the CFL. Never coached qbs. His offense was geared to what he knew as a receiver. You can ask anyone who played for Jacques at the qb position. It was a complex offense not qb friendly.