2021/22 - CFL Offseason - Non-Back-to-Back Grey Cup Champion Thread

[Booch]

29 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You can watch the games or look at the stats.  Our downfield passing game was up when Harris was playing and down each week he wasn't.  The OL was the same, the QB was the same.

The guys installing and calling the plays didn't trust the other backs to block, especially Oliviera.  Sure he was essentially a rookie, but in football that's fluff and even fluffier in a one-year contract era.  You build a team to win now.

Harris wasnt adebt at it when he first came into league either...he grew into it...and both our backs now will do the same. As for in the passing game...no RB was much in passing game last year..as we rarely used them as it's not a focus of our offence anymore.....its not that they couldn't do it...Harris had a whopping 11 receptions last year....Brady 9....guess they both are no threat

[JuranBoldenRules]

23 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I wonder what they said in BC in 2011 when Harris took over in the backfield. "It's a mistake. It's a mistake". But it wasn't. guys have to play to get better. 

Yeah he won the job.  That's not really how this is playing out.

We looked pretty fragile in a game like the West Final and the guys who snapped the team out of it were Harris and Jeffcoat.  Until someone steps up into that role on offense we're a worse team, and I'm not really sure it had to be that way.

Lawler and others I get, this one is way different.

[Bubba Zanetti]

11 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Yeah he won the job.  That's not really how this is playing out.

We looked pretty fragile in a game like the West Final and the guys who snapped the team out of it were Harris and Jeffcoat.  Until someone steps up into that role on offense we're a worse team, and I'm not really sure it had to be that way.

Lawler and others I get, this one is way different.

Im pretty disappointed too. I mean Andrew Harris is the face(was now i guess) of the Bombers and Winnipeg and were coming off back to back championships, one of which he damn near won himself. He's probably only got 1more year left in him. Walters couldnt scrape together another what $50K to keep him in Winnipeg?? A little disappointed in Walters tbh. I understand its a business but Andrew Harris is a Winnipeg legend. Its on the same level as if we had let Milt walk to a different team over money. I only hope this doesnt tarnish the relationship between Harris and the Bombers. Pretty bummed today. The Bombers got gutted. Hoping rookies can fill the holes we now have is a pipe dream. The playing field just got levelled big time.

[Jesse]

9 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Im pretty disappointed too. I mean Andrew Harris is the face(was now i guess) of the Bombers and Winnipeg and were coming off back to back championships, one of which he damn near won himself. He's probably only got 1more year left in him. Walters couldnt scrape together another what $50K to keep him in Winnipeg?? A little disappointed in Walters tbh. I understand its a business but Andrew Harris is a Winnipeg legend. Its on the same level as if we had let Milt walk to a different team over money. I only hope this doesnt tarnish the relationship between Harris and the Bombers. Pretty bummed today. The Bombers got gutted. Hoping rookies can fill the holes we now have is a pipe dream. The playing field just got levelled big time.

I’ll say right now that I don’t put it on Milt’s level at all. Full stop.

And I bet the difference between Walters and Harris could have been 100k, not 50. That’s cutting into other players on the roster that we’ve already taken loses at.

Im much more confident in the difference between Andrew and Brady than I am in the difference between Ellingson and McKnight.

[Fatty Liver]

21 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Yeah he won the job.  That's not really how this is playing out.

We looked pretty fragile in a game like the West Final and the guys who snapped the team out of it were Harris and Jeffcoat.  Until someone steps up into that role on offense we're a worse team, and I'm not really sure it had to be that way.

Lawler and others I get, this one is way different.

All they had to do was decide between Brady or Johnny early on and let the other go to F.A., leaving the door wide open for Harris to finish up his career in Wpg.. I don't think adding Harris effects their win-loss record at all, but watching him chase records would have given the fans another great reason to attend home games and a last chance to celebrate with an all-time Bomber great.  I think they fumbled the ball and I bet Wade is pissed.

[Bubba Zanetti]

15 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I’ll say right now that I don’t put it on Milt’s level at all. Full stop.

And I bet the difference between Walters and Harris could have been 100k, not 50. That’s cutting into other players on the roster that we’ve already taken loses at.

Im much more confident in the difference between Andrew and Brady than I am in the difference between Ellingson and McKnight.

Disagree. Milt is a legend and all time great. Well, so is Andrew Harris. And i'd argue even more so having brought us 2 championships. No figures have come out, but not a chance the Argos are paying Harris $200K+. Its probably in the $150K-$170K range. Im guessing Walters' offer came in around $120K. We'll probably never know for sure but theres no way the Argos offered Harris $100K more than the Bombers.

4 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

All they had to do was decide between Brady or Johnny early on and let the other go to F.A., leaving the door wide open for Harris to finish up his career in Wpg.. I don't think adding Harris effects their win-loss record at all, but watching him chase records would have given the fans another great reason to attend home games and a last chance to celebrate with an all-time Bomber great.  I think they fumbled the ball and I bet Wade is pissed.

Yeah its almost like they chose Augustine over Harris. I mean we have Borsa too, so going into next season with Harris, Oliveira, and Borsa would have been fine. Something smells funny. Wonder if Walters/Bombers just flat out didnt want Harris back......?

Edited February 9, 2022 by Bubba Zanetti

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Harris and Augustine ended up in opposite places of my expectations heading into this offseason.

Augustine has shown he can play but nothing beyond a game here and there, Oliviera has shown bursts but is pretty average so far and really nothing in the pass game as a threat or blocker.  We have no idea how these guys will show in games that Harris dominated regardless of his health.  We know Harris will show up.  If you're building a team to win in 2022 you take Harris over either or even both of those guys, and really in the CFL you're building a team for one year.

I feel of any decision this one will bite us in the ass the most when the games matter.  This is a mistake IMO.

Augustine and his 7 yard per carry is nothing? 

So had O'Shea benched Harris last season in favor of Augustine you would of approved of this?  

Once again what are people smoking here?  Have they never seen teams ever move on from players?

[coach17]

Far as I remember, no team ever won or lost a Grey Cup in February. Great teams are bound to lose key components and with a salary cap no way can you reward everyone. Walters said he would have to make tough choices and he did well in my mind to keep as much of the core together as possible. It's always tough to lose a legend but the alternative might have been tougher to swallow in the bigger picture.

[17to85]

It's not about money, it's about how much is left in the tank. Bombers don't trust his body to hold up.

[WBBFanWest]

31 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Im pretty disappointed too. I mean Andrew Harris is the face(was now i guess) of the Bombers and Winnipeg and were coming off back to back championships, one of which he damn near won himself. He's probably only got 1more year left in him. Walters couldnt scrape together another what $50K to keep him in Winnipeg?? A little disappointed in Walters tbh. I understand its a business but Andrew Harris is a Winnipeg legend. Its on the same level as if we had let Milt walk to a different team over money. I only hope this doesnt tarnish the relationship between Harris and the Bombers. Pretty bummed today. The Bombers got gutted. Hoping rookies can fill the holes we now have is a pipe dream. The playing field just got levelled big time.

So you'd rather give Harris one more year and then have Brady walk?  What about next year?  Or the year after that?  Or the year after that?  Dynasties are not built by looking backwards.

[Bubba Zanetti]

Just now, WBBFanWest said:

So you'd rather give Harris one more year and then have Brady walk?  What about next year?  Or the year after that?  Or the year after that?  Dynasties are not built by looking backwards.

Brady didnt have to walk, they could have let Augustine walk. And yes, i would have preferred that to losing a legend that our MVP QB just recently said he couldnt imagine playing without.

[Engelwood]

2 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You can watch the games or look at the stats.  Our downfield passing game was up when Harris was playing and down each week he wasn't.  The OL was the same, the QB was the same.

The guys installing and calling the plays didn't trust the other backs to block, especially Oliviera.  Sure he was essentially a rookie, but in football that's fluff and even fluffier in a one-year contract era.  You build a team to win now.

 The key words in your whole post are "When He Was Playing" he missed half the season, came to camp a bit out of shape, They both signed 2 year deals, so your one year argument is out the window. 

[Engelwood]

47 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

All they had to do was decide between Brady or Johnny early on and let the other go to F.A., leaving the door wide open for Harris to finish up his career in Wpg.. I don't think adding Harris effects their win-loss record at all, but watching him chase records would have given the fans another great reason to attend home games and a last chance to celebrate with an all-time Bomber great.  I think they fumbled the ball and I bet Wade is pissed.

You don't think Wade and Walters talked about it throughout the week. Honestly thinking about business and player health, I am taking the 2 young guys every time. Are they Andrew Harris, no, they are their own players who got to grow under Harris for a couple years. I would take the younger guys over a 35 year old RB that missed half the last season. Here is the thing our O-line opens whole trucks can drive through most games, I don't see that changing next season, we will run the ball down teams throats still and run play action off of that. Especially with 3 young backs that all bring something different. 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

 

Dave Naylor

 

@TSNDaveNaylor

If the @BCLions don’t land Kenny Lawler, wouldn’t be surprised if they look at WR Ricky Collins, who played with @TorontoArgos last season. Collins actually has more yards receiving and YAC yards than Lawler over the past 2 seasons. Both played 29 games. #CFL

 

 

I'd hope Walters is in on this guy.

[Noeller]

Walters always grabs some guys on the cheap days after the initial rush. Every year we do this. He hasn't steered us wrong yet, so just relax. 

[rebusrankin]

Ricky Collins, Markeith Ambles, RJ Harris are three potential WR who we may get on a nice deal.

[Bubba Zanetti]

4 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Ricky Collins, Markeith Ambles, RJ Harris are three potential WR who we may get on a nice deal.

Harris re-signed with Ottawa.

[rebusrankin]

5 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Harris re-signed with Ottawa.

Dang it, now I need to go to Subway for more napkins. Keep needing to update my list.

Edited February 9, 2022 by rebusrankin

[Bubba Zanetti]

Slim pickens left at receiver

[17to85]

1 minute ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Slim pickens left at receiver

What were his stats like last year?

[Bubba Zanetti]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

What were his stats like last year?

Dead since 1983, so not good.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

10 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Slim pickens left at receiver

 

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

What were his stats like last year?

 

4 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Dead since 1983, so not good.

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

3 hours ago, Jesse said:

I’ll say right now that I don’t put it on Milt’s level at all. Full stop.

And I bet the difference between Walters and Harris could have been 100k, not 50. That’s cutting into other players on the roster that we’ve already taken loses at.

Im much more confident in the difference between Andrew and Brady than I am in the difference between Ellingson and McKnight.

It's way beyond Milt tbh and we don't have the rehash that but we just won two Grey Cups and which player led that culture?

2 hours ago, Engelwood said:

 The key words in your whole post are "When He Was Playing" he missed half the season, came to camp a bit out of shape, They both signed 2 year deals, so your one year argument is out the window. 

It's always one year.  It's not the NHL.  How many years is Collaros signed for?  Jeffcoat?  Jefferson?  Bighill?  You think that Johnny Augustine at age 30 is gonna carry us when all those guys are gone or retired?  Get real.

2 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

So you'd rather give Harris one more year and then have Brady walk?  What about next year?  Or the year after that?  Or the year after that?  Dynasties are not built by looking backwards.

Brady could tear his ACL or break his tib-fib again and be a total non-factor.  It's football.  You build a team for now.

All our big players are signed for one year and pushing 30 or older.  We win now, we're not worried about Brady Oliviera in his prime.

Edited February 9, 2022 by JuranBoldenRules

[JuranBoldenRules]

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

Augustine and his 7 yard per carry is nothing? 

So had O'Shea benched Harris last season in favor of Augustine you would of approved of this?  

Once again what are people smoking here?  Have they never seen teams ever move on from players?

Are you kidding?  I'm fine with moving on from players.  Harris is this team.  Do you think we even get to either Grey Cup without him?  It's a big risk to move on.  Has Augustine even hit 50 carries in a season?  I'm not one to overstate the value of one football player to a team but man this is Harris' team.

Why the hell would Harris have been benched when he's averaging 16 carries 90 yards a game and superb pass protection?

I get it that RB's sometimes fall off a cliff but the guy literally dragged this team into a Grey Cup two months ago.  We're not talking about Charles Roberts or Milt Stegall we're talking about a guy who just built the culture, did the work and got the result...TWICE.

I trust O'Shea to make the call but I have strong concerns that they overthought this one and potentially will regret that later.  This team is not built to win in 2023 or 2024 or 2025.  To me there's no reason to favour a 25 year old player over a 35 year old one when the 35 year old clearly just outperformed the other guy.  Who's our next QB, who's our next big defensive star?  All our guys are old.  You can't build for 2 years down the line anyway but especially not with the current contract rules.

Edited February 9, 2022 by JuranBoldenRules

[Jesse]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Are you kidding?  I'm fine with moving on from players.  Harris is this team.  Do you think we even get to either Grey Cup without him?  It's a big risk to move on.  Has Augustine even hit 50 carries in a season?  I'm not one to overstate the value of one football player to a team but man this is Harris' team.

Why the hell would Harris have been benched when he's averaging 16 carries 90 yards a game and superb pass protection?

I get it that RB's sometimes fall off a cliff but the guy literally dragged this team into a Grey Cup two months ago.  We're not talking about Charles Roberts or Milt Stegall we're talking about a guy who just built the culture and did the work. 

I trust O'Shea to make the call but I have strong concerns that they overthought this one and potentially will regret that later.  This team is not built to win in 2023 or 2024 or 2025.  To me there's no reason to favour a 25 year old player over a 35 year old one when the 35 year old clearly just outperformed the other guy.  Who's our next QB, who's our next big defensive star?  All our guys are old.  You can't build for 2 years down the line anyway but especially not with the current contract rules.

Andrew is leaving big shoes to fill. But 2022 Andrew isn’t going to be 2019 Andrew.

It’s a team game and not one single player dragged us anywhere, but our Grey Cup victories were carried by our defence. 
 

Andrew was incredibly important to our turnaround, but we are trying to keep a team together and he did not earn his contract last season and the savings at RB help us keep more of the whole team moving forward.

I think most of us would have preferred that he accepted Walters’ offer and stayed on with us, but he clearly felt he needed to maximize his earnings. All the power in the world to him and I hope he leads the league in rushing. No hard feelings.