Top 5 Bomber QBs

[Slimy Sculpin]

It's hard to argue with the list of QBs offered up. Although he is on no one's top 5 list and most of you won't remember him, here's a good read on Ken Ploen's competition in the late 1950s. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Van_Pelt

But for an injury and the US draft, it could have been Kenny Who?

 

[SpeedFlex27]

In the 1962 Grey Cup, Van Pelt was the special guest of the Blue Bombers as he had been discharged from the US Air Force & the Bombers GM Jim Ausley wanted him to come back. He ultimately said no. That must have really impressed Ploen, who was the 1961 GC MVP at qb. I wonder how pissed off he'd have been during that game?

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2022-04-14 at 11:47 AM, Eternal optimist said:

Ploen also (according to the Canadian Football Hall of Fame) holds the record for fewest interceptions thrown in a single season (1962 - 4).

They're both well-respected, but there's absolutely no Brock is even comparable. Obviously the team around them has something to do with it, but really good players just have that "it" factor that rallies the team pushes them over the hump. Ploen had "it", Brock, well, not so much.

Also Brock dumped on our city so he can go fly a kite in my book.

Jeezus, that was 39 years ago. Brock said in his book that he was wrong & wished he had stayed in Winnipeg. As a fan, I have no ill will towards Brock at all. Also, he played in an era where the Eskimos had the greatest run in CFL history winning 5 Grey Cups in a row. We were very good as a team but they always were a little better.

[Tracker]

9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Jeezus, that was 39 years ago. Brock said in his book that he was wrong & wished he had stayed in Winnipeg. As a fan, I have no ill will towards Brock at all. Also, he played in an era where the Eskimos had the greatest run (so far) in CFL history winning 5 Grey Cups in a row. We were very good as a team but they always were a little better.

FIFY

[Bubba Zanetti]

Pretty cool pic of Jack Jacobs and Tom Casey. Notice how the equipment trunk says Winnipeg Rugby Football Club. Many moons ago! Some interesting facts about Tom Casey. He was the first african american player to be voted into the CFL hall of fame, and he was actually a licensed practising doctor. A profession which he worked in after football.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Bubba Zanetti

[SpeedFlex27]

16 hours ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Pretty cool pic of Jack Jacobs and Tom Casey. Notice how the equipment trunk says Winnipeg Rugby Football Club. Many moons ago! Some interesting facts about Tom Casey. He was the first african american player to be voted into the CFL hall of fame, and he was actually a licensed practising doctor. A profession which he worked in after football.

Casey got his degree in medicine from the University of Manitoba. He attended classes & studied while playing for the Bombers. He interned in Winnipeg & London, England before settling in Connecticut where he practiced medicine the rest of his career.

Edited April 17, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[TrueBlue4ever]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Casey got his degree in medicine from the University of Manitoba. He attended classes & studied while playing for the Bombers. He interned in Winnipeg & London, England before settling in Connecticut where he practiced medicine the rest of his career.

Was in the same graduating class as my father. 

[johnzo]

On 2022-04-15 at 5:45 AM, Slimy Sculpin said:

It's hard to argue with the list of QBs offered up. Although he is on no one's top 5 list and most of you won't remember him, here's a good read on Ken Ploen's competition in the late 1950s. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Van_Pelt

But for an injury and the US draft, it could have been Kenny Who?

Ploen / Van Pelt is an all-time QB tandem.

Both were super clutch, both won Grey Cups as the other's injury replacement.  

I wonder if we could have kept them both beyond 1960 if Uncle Sam hadn't called for Van Pelt?  I don't think it was so easy for players to change teams then...

What are the other all-time QB tandems?  Wilkinson / Moon is the best one I can think of, and it'd be hard to top that.  In the 1981 Grey Cup, the two Eskies QBs had nine Grey Cup rings between them.  Unreal.

Flutie / Garcia would be close except those guys didn't play together very long.

Edited April 20, 2022 by johnzo

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, johnzo said:

Ploen / Van Pelt is an all-time QB tandem.

Both were super clutch, both won Grey Cups as the other's injury replacement.  

I wonder if we could have kept them both beyond 1960 if Uncle Sam hadn't called for Van Pelt?  I don't think it was so easy for players to change teams then...

What are the other all-time QB tandems?  Wilkinson / Moon is the best one I can think of, and it'd be hard to top that.  In the 1981 Grey Cup, the two Eskies QBs had nine Grey Cup rings between them.  Unreal.

Flutie / Garcia would be close except those guys didn't play together very long.

Garcia/Dickenson in Calgary

Clements/Hufnagel for the Bombers.

Joe Barnes/Hufnagel (J.J. Barnagel) in Sask.

Ken Johnson/ Hufnagel in Calgary.

Wilkinson/Lemmerman in Edmonton.

Allen/ Dunigan in Edmonton.

Sonny Wade/Jimmy Jones/Joe Barnes in Montreal

Don Jonas/Tom Wilkinson in Toronto.

Theismann/Barton in Toronto (1971 & 72).

Bernie Faloney/Joe Zuger in Hamilton.

Edited April 20, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[johnzo]

Y'know what would make my bomber fan heart glow blue?  Someday being able to add Collaros / Streveler to that list.

Holloway / Barnes in Toronto was another good one.

Maas / Ray had a great run as a tandem in 2005, with Maas coming off the bench to win the semi-final and final before Ray went start-to-finish and won the Grey Cup.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Y'know what would make my bomber fan heart glow blue?  Someday being able to add Collaros / Streveler to that list.

Holloway / Barnes in Toronto was another good one.

Maas / Ray had a great run as a tandem in 2005, with Maas coming off the bench to win the semi-final and final before Ray went start-to-finish and won the Grey Cup.

If you feel that they deserve it then add Collaros/Streveler now as they'll probably never play together again.

[Eternal optimist]

On 2022-04-12 at 3:53 PM, Dr Zaius said:

7. I can't find who our quarterback was in the 1935 Grey Cup, but that guy.
 

 

As far as I can tell this was also Bobby Fritz. Fun fact he was a player and our head coach at the same time

[Eternal optimist]

On 2022-04-20 at 3:22 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

If you feel that they deserve it then add Collaros/Streveler now as they'll probably never play together again.

Makes me sad in the current-age CFL you don't see more QB tandems. With how expensive the position is, it just usually isn't economically feasible. If you're routinely switching QBs (and it isn't for short-yardage sneaks) - you're probably doing something wrong. The only other honorable mention you could make today would be Evans / Masoli, - but I don't think that really counts - they wouldn't game plan to play both of them, just if one stunk it up, the other would sub in.

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Makes me sad in the current-age CFL you don't see more QB tandems. With how expensive the position is, it just usually isn't economically feasible. If you're routinely switching QBs (and it isn't for short-yardage sneaks) - you're probably doing something wrong. The only other honorable mention you could make today would be Evans / Masoli, - but I don't think that really counts - they wouldn't game plan to play both of them, just if one stunk it up, the other would sub in.

That's how it usually is. One plays until an injury replaces the starter or if losing badly or winning big. In the 84 Grey Cup, Clements lost his contact lens on the field. Or got a finger in the eye, I can't remember. Anyway, he had to come out. While being taken care of on the sidelines, John Hufnagel came in & threw a TD pass (I think) to Joe Pop, I believe. Had Clements not had some kind of a problem, Huff never would have gone in. 

On the flip side, Leo Cahill alternated Joe Theismann & Greg Barton every series no matter how well one played or how badly the other did. Sometimes, he'd alternate them every play. He felt they were equal & therefore couldn't make a decision as to who was the starter. All it accomplished was divide the Argos as you had players in each qb camps. The team struggled on the field. Only when Cahill made the decision to play Theismann over Barton did the Argos start playing to their potential & made it to the 71 Grey Cup. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That's how it usually is. One plays until an injury replaces the starter or if losing badly or winning big. In the 84 Grey Cup, Clements lost his contact lens on the field. Or got a finger in the eye, I can't remember. Anyway, he had to come out. While being taken care of on the sidelines, John Hufnagel came in & threw a TD pass (I think) to Joe Pop, I believe. Had Clements not had some kind of a problem, Huff never would have gone in. 

On the flip side, Leo Cahill alternated Joe Theismann & Greg Barton every series no matter how well one played or how badly the other did. Sometimes, he'd alternate them every play. He felt they were equal & therefore couldn't make a decision as to who was the starter. All it accomplished was divide the Argos as you had players in each qb camps. The team struggled on the field. Only when Cahill made the decision to play Theismann over Barton did the Argos start playing to their potential & made it to the 71 Grey Cup. 

It was a lost contact for Clements late in the first quarter, and Huf came in and did not throw a TD pass then but did settle down the offence with a few first downs and a sustained drive. Clements came back in to finish off the drive after composing himself and he was the one who threw the TD pass to Joe Pop (who was grieving his grandmother’s death just a few days before the game and was a game-time decision to start). Huf came back into the game in the 4th quarter to mop up (that was much more common in those days for the back-up to come in - Hugnagel frequently entered the game late in the 3rd quarter that year as the Bombers blew out a ton of teams - as compared to now where starters go start to finish almost always) and at that point he threw a TD pass to Jeff Boyd to close off the game. The only true tandem QB I saw play was Joe Barnes, part of the famous “Barnagel” combo with John Hufagel in Saskatchewan in 1981 and then in 1983-84 with Conredge Holloway in Toronto, each usually playing one half regardless of situation. 

[SpeedFlex27]

13 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

It was a lost contact for Clements late in the first quarter, and Huf came in and did not throw a TD pass then but did settle down the offence with a few first downs and a sustained drive. Clements came back in to finish off the drive after composing himself and he was the one who threw the TD pass to Joe Pop (who was grieving his grandmother’s death just a few days before the game and was a game-time decision to start). Huf came back into the game in the 4th quarter to mop up (that was much more common in those days for the back-up to come in - Hugnagel frequently entered the game late in the 3rd quarter that year as the Bombers blew out a ton of teams - as compared to now where starters go start to finish almost always) and at that point he threw a TD pass to Jeff Boyd to close off the game. The only true tandem QB I saw play was Joe Barnes, part of the famous “Barnagel” combo with John Hufagel in Saskatchewan in 1981 and then in 1983-84 with Conredge Holloway in Toronto, each usually playing one half regardless of situation. 

I remember Huffer throwing a TD pass but I couldn't remember to what receiver. Thanks for clearing that up. That was a heckuva tandem. They also had Jim Zorn as the #3 qb in 1986.

The other QB tandem we had was Dieter Brock & Harry Knight from 1976-78. Knight had to retire as he damaged his rotator cuff which was a career ender back in the day. He played better than Brock, at times. He was pretty effective coming off the bench when Dieter struggled. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

24 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I remember Huffer throwing a TD pass but I couldn't remember to what receiver. Thanks for clearing that up. That was a heckuva tandem. They also had Jim Zorn as the #3 qb in 1986.

The other QB tandem we had was Dieter Brock & Harry Knight from 1976-78. Knight had to retire as he damaged his rotator cuff which was a career ender back in the day. He played better than Brock, at times. He was pretty effective coming off the bench when Dieter struggled. 

Zorn took over as the holder on field goals that year. Trevor Kennerd said he had the fastest hands of any holder Kennerd had ever seen.

I remember Mark Jackson as the back-up to Brock in the early 1980’s. Touted as the “next one” but rarely got to see the field with Brock In front of him. Then when Dieter had his hold-out, Jackson came in and quickly proved himself to be a mirage, hastening the need to make the trade for Clements. 

Another great pairing, if not a true tandem, was Jonas/Brock. Don, two years removed from his MVP performance, wanted to be the mentor for Brock and pass the reins on to him and slide into the back-up role, recognizing the raw talent there, but GM Earl Lunsford had other ideas and unceremoniously shipped him off to Hamilton for Chuck Ealey. 

[SpeedFlex27]

31 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Zorn took over as the holder on field goals that year. Trevor Kennerd said he had the fastest hands of any holder Kennerd had ever seen.

I remember Mark Jackson as the back-up to Brock in the early 1980’s. Touted as the “next one” but rarely got to see the field with Brock In front of him. Then when Dieter had his hold-out, Jackson came in and quickly proved himself to be a mirage, hastening the need to make the trade for Clements. 

Another great pairing, if not a true tandem, was Jonas/Brock. Don, two years removed from his MVP performance, wanted to be the mentor for Brock and pass the reins on to him and slide into the back-up role, recognizing the raw talent there, but GM Earl Lunsford had other ideas and unceremoniously shipped him off to Hamilton for Chuck Ealey. 

During the 1974 season, Don Jonas was unhappy with new Head Coach Bud Riley taking the play calling away from him & giving it to his OC. Riley said qbs had enough things to worry about on the field & playcalling shouldn't be one of them. Besides, Riley said that the game was changing & more responsibilities were being given to coaches when it came to play calling.

Turns out Riley was right as today no qb calls his own game. But Jonas was a throwback to another time & he felt he was the one who should call the plays not an assistant on the sidelines so there was a major clash there.

With the Bombers struggling on the field, GM Earl Lunsford felt it was his duty to open his big yap of a pie hole to the local media & he too criticized Jonas for throwing some ill timed interceptions early in that 1974 season. Jonas took exception to that & in an article published by the Winnipeg Tribune's Sports Editor & Bomber beat writer jack Matheson in mid August, he criticized Riley for changing the playcalling  from what he was used to.

When it came to Lunsford in the same article, Jonas was quoted by Matheson as saying something about Lunsford not having a clue about how the offense worked, not knowing the plays, never sitting in on film or qb meetings, that he should stick to managing the team & mind his own business. Lunsford was angered & set out to trade Jonas just to show him Who Was The Boss. A couple of weeks later, the trade was made & he was off to Hamilton for Chuck Ealey. One thing a player didn't do was cross Lunsford as he was a vindictive man.  A number of players including Jonas found that out. 

Jonas knew something was up. About a week before the trade was consumated he  went in to talk to Lunsford to try to smooth the waters. He said he was willing to step aside as the starter to play Brock. That he would like to mentor the young QB as a player-coach & that he wanted to end his career as a Bomber. Lunsford had made up his mind to trade what he felt was the "malcontent" veteran qb & nothing Jonas said made a difference. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[TrueBlue4ever]

10 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

During the 1974 season, Don Jonas was unhappy with new Head Coach Bud Riley taking the play calling away from him & giving it to his OC. Riley said qbs had enough things to worry about on the field & playcalling shouldn't be one of them. Besides, Riley said that the game was changing & more responsibilities were being given to coaches when it came to play calling.

Turns out Riley was right as today no qb calls his own game. But Jonas was a throwback to another time & he felt he was the one who should call the plays not an assistant on the sidelines so there was a major clash there.

With the Bombers struggling on the field, GM Earl Lunsford felt it was his duty to open his big yap of a pie hole to the local media & he too criticized Jonas for throwing some ill timed interceptions early in that 1974 season. Jonas took exception to that & in an article published by the Winnipeg Tribune's Sports Editor & Bomber beat writer jack Matheson in mid August, he criticized Riley for changing the playcalling  from what he was used to.

When it came to Lunsford in the same article, Jonas was quoted by Matheson as saying something about Lunsford not having a clue about how the offense worked, not knowing the plays, never sitting in on film or qb meetings, that he should stick to managing the team & mind his own business. Lunsford was angered & set out to trade Jonas just to show him Who Was The Boss. A couple of weeks later, the trade was made & he was off to Hamilton for Chuck Ealey. One thing player didn't do was cross Lunsford as he was a vindictive man.  A number of players including Jonas found that out. 

Jonas knew something was up. About a week before the trade was consumated he  went in to talk to Lunsford to try to smooth the waters. He said he was willing to step aside as the starter to play Brock. That he would like to mentor the young QB as a player-coach & that he wanted to end his career as a Bomber. Lunsford had made up his mind to trade what he felt was the "malcontent" veteran qb & nothing Jonas said made a difference. 

Great post!

[SpeedFlex27]

18 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Great post!

In closure, Jonas lived full time in Winnipeg. When the 1974 season ended Jonas returned here. He was disappointed the way things worked out with the Bombers & didn't want to play another season with the Ti Cats so he retired. He & his wife decided to return to Orlando, Fla. Before he left a huge farewell dinner was held in their honour. Everyone in Winnipeg who was someone attended. Federal, provincial & civic politicians, media, sports figures like Bobby Hull, fans & local business people were all there to say goodbye. All except the Bomber coaches & management. They were all invited but they never came.

Edited May 10, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[Adrenaline_x]

This has been a great thread to read through.. Thanks for this.

 

-Mike.

 

[Fatty Liver]

On 2022-05-09 at 6:27 AM, SpeedFlex27 said:

During the 1974 season, Don Jonas was unhappy with new Head Coach Bud Riley taking the play calling away from him & giving it to his OC. Riley said qbs had enough things to worry about on the field & playcalling shouldn't be one of them. Besides, Riley said that the game was changing & more responsibilities were being given to coaches when it came to play calling.

Turns out Riley was right as today no qb calls his own game. But Jonas was a throwback to another time & he felt he was the one who should call the plays not an assistant on the sidelines so there was a major clash there.

With the Bombers struggling on the field, GM Earl Lunsford felt it was his duty to open his big yap of a pie hole to the local media & he too criticized Jonas for throwing some ill timed interceptions early in that 1974 season. Jonas took exception to that & in an article published by the Winnipeg Tribune's Sports Editor & Bomber beat writer jack Matheson in mid August, he criticized Riley for changing the playcalling  from what he was used to.

When it came to Lunsford in the same article, Jonas was quoted by Matheson as saying something about Lunsford not having a clue about how the offense worked, not knowing the plays, never sitting in on film or qb meetings, that he should stick to managing the team & mind his own business. Lunsford was angered & set out to trade Jonas just to show him Who Was The Boss. A couple of weeks later, the trade was made & he was off to Hamilton for Chuck Ealey. One thing a player didn't do was cross Lunsford as he was a vindictive man.  A number of players including Jonas found that out. 

Jonas knew something was up. About a week before the trade was consumated he  went in to talk to Lunsford to try to smooth the waters. He said he was willing to step aside as the starter to play Brock. That he would like to mentor the young QB as a player-coach & that he wanted to end his career as a Bomber. Lunsford had made up his mind to trade what he felt was the "malcontent" veteran qb & nothing Jonas said made a difference. 

I have positive memories of Chuck Ealey, he was a very mobile QB, an exciting runner with a good arm, although injuries later took their toll on his career.  He went 35-0 in college playing for the University of Toledo in the early 70's, but was passed over in the NFL draft when he insisted on playing QB during a time when there were no black QB's in the NFL, so he opted for the CFL instead.  He was the first black QB to win the Grey Cup playing with Hamilton in his rookie season, 1972.  

A couple documentaries on Ealey can be found on YouTube, no mention of the Bombers, but well worth watching anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKIWYoz-jts&ab_channel=HistoryMysteryMan

 

 

 

[17to85]

30 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

I have positive memories of Chuck Ealey, he was a very mobile QB, an exciting runner with a good arm, although injuries later took their toll on his career.  He went 35-0 in college playing for the University of Toledo in the early 70's, but was passed over in the NFL draft when he insisted on playing QB during a time when there were no black QB's in the NFL, so he opted for the CFL instead.  He was the first black QB to win the Grey Cup playing with Hamilton in his rookie season, 1972.  

A couple documentaries on Ealey can be found on YouTube, no mention of the Bombers, but well worth watching anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKIWYoz-jts&ab_channel=HistoryMysteryMan

 

 

 

One of his kids wrote a children's book about his story. My son has a copy and I've had to read it to him about a million times.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

I have positive memories of Chuck Ealey, he was a very mobile QB, an exciting runner with a good arm, although injuries later took their toll on his career.  He went 35-0 in college playing for the University of Toledo in the early 70's, but was passed over in the NFL draft when he insisted on playing QB during a time when there were no black QB's in the NFL, so he opted for the CFL instead.  He was the first black QB to win the Grey Cup playing with Hamilton in his rookie season, 1972.  

A couple documentaries on Ealey can be found on YouTube, no mention of the Bombers, but well worth watching anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKIWYoz-jts&ab_channel=HistoryMysteryMan

 

 

 

Chuck struggled wihen he was here. His stay lasted an entire year from September 74 to 75 when he was traded to Toronto. He was absolutely unremarkable when he was a Blue Bomber which to me was shocking as he had established himself as one of the CFL's elite qbs. Bud Riley had seen enough & handed the keys of the franchise to an inexperienced Dieter Brock & the rest is history. he never recovered as a qb after his Winnipeg stint. He became a second tier qb for the rest of his career. 

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Chuck struggled wihen he was here. His stay lasted an entire year from September 74 to 75 when he was traded to Toronto. He was absolutely unremarkable when he was a Blue Bomber which to me was shocking as he had established himself as one of the CFL's elite qbs. Bud Riley had seen enough & handed the keys of the franchise to an inexperienced Dieter Brock & the rest is history. he never recovered as a qb after his Winnipeg stint. He became a second tier qb for the rest of his career. 

I have always wondered what the heck happened to Ealey- he went from all-star to a mediocre backup in such a short time. Even when he subbed in, he did nothing to redeem himself.