Creative and interesting play designs / schemes

[wbbfan]

I wanted to test the waters and see if anyone's interested in discussing interesting or creative play calls in football. Also a bit of theory crafting or hand wringing about how stuff would work in the CFL and why we don't see it.

One of the big things I see in US football, that hasn't come up here despite massive potential is better-designed QB runs. Teams like the Ravens and Coastal Carolina do exciting stuff with QB runs. The ravens run some rpo, but fake the option a lot and use designed run calls out of the same package. Their O power and QB power are great examples. In a full option offense, this would be 1 place call. The QB would read a defender mostly the end and either keep it up behind the pulling guard or hand it off to the RB to run outside of the guards' block. The advantage they get from mixing in the separate calls is that they change the speed of the play drastically. The fake option can be run much faster and the defense can't re act to the fact the offense isn't reading a player. They have to try and cover all the option players gaps.

Traditionally this type of play used to be run from a 2 back power set. But the ravens use it heavily out of 11 and 21 personnel in the shotgun. Alignment wise it's not that different from what we see up here every week with Woli/Demski/Bailey pinching on the end.

 

 

 

[BigBlue]

Back to the definition of insanity. Expecting our O-line to out muscle our opposition D's front seven is kind of like that. Running inside the tackles makes about as much sense - -  right now - - as ordering Chateau Briand at a hamburger stand. Nothing is going to happen.

To Pierce's credit we are not bucking up the middle on every first down. I see  us passing a lot on 1st down. Maybe this is just compensating for our nicked up starters. So I am glad to see some strategic thinking going on. 

If we start running outside the tackles, and mix a few traps in, then when we go inside, perhaps some of the 2nd and 9s will disappear. I thought Friday night was one of our best called games.

Still the D line was charging in all night  full tilt with no provision for a possible run. (That's why I talked about trapping earlier). So no wonder Zack was so constantly being chased out of the pocket. With that kind of charging rush, eventually Collaros is going to get nicked.

Still what's a coordinator to  do?

 

[bryan35]

Just wondering why we hardly ever see shovel passes or centre screens anymore? 

[JuranBoldenRules]

56 minutes ago, bryan35 said:

Just wondering why we hardly ever see shovel passes or centre screens anymore? 

See a lot of centre screens.  Sask’s entire passing game is basically a version of it…watch how many times they throw a ball to someone just behind the pass rush.  They run a lot of double crossers right at the line of scrimmage to compensate for not having a QB.

Toronto ran a bunch of middle screens to Harris yesterday too.

Shovel passes are more of a spur of the moment thing, they are pretty inefficient if you think all the D needs to do is have someone spying the QB or the target and it’s DOA.

[Tracker]

A bit off topic here, but I thought that both Gray and Dobson had enough mojo to be very good if not dominant linemen in the CFL. So far, they have not shown any real abilities in that regard.

[BigBlueFanatic]

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

A bit off topic here, but I thought that both Gray and Dobson had enough mojo to be very good if not dominant linemen in the CFL. So far, they have not shown any real abilities in that regard.

Perhaps a bit of not comfortable with the positions they’re being asked to play?  Gray is a long body type and is a legit future starting RT.  Having him at LG as a road grader doesn’t play into his strength, no?

Lining up Dobson as the TE on heavy sets also failing miserably.  Guy is a guard through and through and would look instantly better on the inside.

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, BigBlueFanatic said:

Perhaps a bit of not comfortable with the positions they’re being asked to play?  Gray is a long body type and is a legit future starting RT.  Having him at LG as a road grader doesn’t play into his strength, no?

If he is not effective inside, then he's not going to be starting at tackle any time soon.  Especially in pass pro, it is a more difficult position to play. 

[Booch]

I still wonder what's with Eli? He can travel...is he in game shape body and mentally??...obvious not cardio wise but he'd be a huge addition...instant up grade at gaurd...as well as center while Couture is out...dude was in top 4 ranked centers in NCAA prior to his injury...get that dude back here asap if no bridges were burned ..and if so...repair them...cause that's a road grader and a mean s.o.b on the field

[Jpan85]

He can’t enter the country if he is not vaccinated.

[Jpan85]

5 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

He can’t enter the country if he is not vaccinated.

I guess he could but would have isolate.

[SpeedFlex27]

I don't think he wants to play anymore. He didn't seem to care that he couldn't play in the Grey Cup. Some bridges you can't fix.

[Mark F]

20 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

See a lot of centre screens.  Sask’s entire passing game is basically a version of it…watch how many times they throw a ball to someone just behind the pass rush.  They run a lot of double crossers right at the line of scrimmage to compensate for not having a Qb

think thats the play the elks ran with wilkinson, and tommy scott for years, seemed unstoppable at the time. used to drive  me nuts, cause they ran it endlessly and it mostly worked

also.... jason maas is doing a good job considering he has a qb as bad as faj , dont you think? 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mark F

[wbbfan]

On 2022-07-17 at 3:24 AM, BigBlue said:

Back to the definition of insanity. Expecting our O-line to out muscle our opposition D's front seven is kind of like that. Running inside the tackles makes about as much sense - -  right now - - as ordering Chateau Briand at a hamburger stand. Nothing is going to happen.

To Pierce's credit we are not bucking up the middle on every first down. I see  us passing a lot on 1st down. Maybe this is just compensating for our nicked up starters. So I am glad to see some strategic thinking going on. 

If we start running outside the tackles, and mix a few traps in, then when we go inside, perhaps some of the 2nd and 9s will disappear. I thought Friday night was one of our best called games.

Still the D line was charging in all night  full tilt with no provision for a possible run. (That's why I talked about trapping earlier). So no wonder Zack was so constantly being chased out of the pocket. With that kind of charging rush, eventually Collaros is going to get nicked.

Still what's a coordinator to  do?

 

This isn’t about us running said plays. This is general application to the Canadian game. offensive creativity has become incredibly stagnant. 
 

21 hours ago, bryan35 said:

Just wondering why we hardly ever see shovel passes or centre screens anymore? 

shovel pass is a great wrinkle to mix in occasionally for a team that doesn’t do any thing like that. Especially if said team struggles in the red zone. It’s probably the easiest option to defend. 
 

17 hours ago, BigBlueFanatic said:

Perhaps a bit of not comfortable with the positions they’re being asked to play?  Gray is a long body type and is a legit future starting RT.  Having him at LG as a road grader doesn’t play into his strength, no?

Lining up Dobson as the TE on heavy sets also failing miserably.  Guy is a guard through and through and would look instantly better on the inside.

This is what I see. Gray should be a rt long term and would be fine as a guard if we weren’t banged up / struggling especially inside. Both he and Nuefeld seem to be trying to cover pick up assignments and leaving gaps open. 
 

8 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't think he wants to play anymore. He didn't seem to care that he couldn't play in the Grey Cup. Some bridges you can't fix.

Might’ve fifo’d him self out of a job. Sad. 

 

 

[Mark F]

strange that I have not seen a single use of two qb on the field.

 

that says something.

[Sard]

6 minutes ago, Mark F said:

strange that I have not seen a single use of two qb on the field.

 

that says something.

Technically Edmonton has been using it having Kai Locksley play as a receiver on a lot of plays.  Not sure that they've used it in a true sense of 2 QBs on the field though.

[bigg jay]

4 minutes ago, Mark F said:

strange that I have not seen a single use of two qb on the field.

 

that says something.

I think Chris Jones has for a play or two but not much and with the way he uses his players, it's hard to tell if that was the intent.

2 minutes ago, Sard said:

Technically Edmonton has been using it having Kai Locksley play as a receiver on a lot of plays.  Not sure that they've used it in a true sense of 2 QBs on the field though.

They've had him listed on their depth chart as a receiver most games.  They did have him, Ford and Arbuckle listed as QB's in week two though (Arbuckle was the only one to record any stat so I'd have to watch the game again to see if Ford or Locksley took the field at all).

[JuranBoldenRules]

44 minutes ago, Mark F said:

strange that I have not seen a single use of two qb on the field.

 

that says something.

Hamilton did it with Shiltz handing off to Evans who then threw a pass on a rollout.

But if you really think about it unless you have a QB who is like a running back you’re basically just taking another guy off the field that the defense has to worry about.  There’s some novelty to it just to cause confusion but it’s not going to work more than a couple times.

21 hours ago, Tracker said:

A bit off topic here, but I thought that both Gray and Dobson had enough mojo to be very good if not dominant linemen in the CFL. So far, they have not shown any real abilities in that regard.

Dobson looks really heavy to me.  And if you just watch him walk there’s something wrong there, like his legs aren’t equal length or something.  He’s like fat Stevie Baggs.

I know the talk is about how he can dunk at 360 pounds or whatever but imagine what he could do at 310-320.

[greenrider55]

There’s a play the Chiefs do a ton, where the receiver runs in front of Mahomes & he just kind of flips the ball up, does it in the red zone a ton… should try that one with Demski.

[Mark F]

47 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

There’s some novelty to it just to cause confusion but it’s not going to work more than a couple times.

wouldnt it harder (if run well) for the D to know which qb had the ball.... ie they go in opposite direction rollouts?

38 minutes ago, greenrider55 said:

Mahomes & he just kind of flips the ball up, does it in the red zone a ton… should try that one with Demski.

and collaros is playing like mahomes with off balance accurate throws

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mark F

[Bubba Zanetti]

Quick kick!

[JuranBoldenRules]

44 minutes ago, Mark F said:

wouldnt it harder (if run well) for the D to know which qb had the ball.... ie they go in opposite direction rollouts?

and collaros is playing like mahomes with off balance accurate throws

Maybe if you can have them both lined up behind a center with the defense blindfolded so they can't see which center has the ball to snap.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Hamilton did it with Shiltz handing off to Evans who then threw a pass on a rollout.

But if you really think about it unless you have a QB who is like a running back you’re basically just taking another guy off the field that the defense has to worry about.  There’s some novelty to it just to cause confusion but it’s not going to work more than a couple times.

Dobson looks really heavy to me.  And if you just watch him walk there’s something wrong there, like his legs aren’t equal length or something.  He’s like fat Stevie Baggs.

I know the talk is about how he can dunk at 360 pounds or whatever but imagine what he could do at 310-320.

He’s 315 rn. 
 

 

[Mark F]

50 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Maybe if you can have them both lined up behind a center with the defense blindfolded so they can't see which center has the ball to snap.

or... invisible ball!

[JuranBoldenRules]

37 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

He’s 315 rn. 
 

 

And Byfuglien was 260.

[BaconNBigBlue]

Have McCrae and Oliveira swing out with McCrae 5 yards up field.  They cover McCrae you throw to Oliveira, they cover Oliveira, you throw to McCrae, if the defense overloads that side you throw opposite.