CHAMPS vs. Flappers - early thread

[GCn20]

25 minutes ago, Mark F said:

I never played football...

what goes into running a route? It doesnt seem that complicated in theory, yet some can, and some cant do it. also, finding open spot. why are some players able to do that?

I guess speed and start stop, quick cuts, but some players with physical ability cant do it well

when dressler played for sask... he was always open v. Bombers. it was irritating. and they couldnt tackle him. tip toing down the sidelines. 

Timing, and pace of the route are essential, as is making the right read of the route tree. Receivers have options on most plays based on the D they are facing. They must make the right read, beat their defender who is trying to throw off their route, and run it at the correct distance and pace. Also being on the same page as your QB is ultra important. We saw Zac and Shoen's convo the other night as they sorted out the route after his TD pass so that they would always be on the same page in that particular play call. You gotta have all that and the physical ability to go with it. It may seem like Dressler was open more than others and he probably was, but a lot of it was just recognizing the defence and knowing where the open area is, going there, and knowing where your QB thinks you will go. 

[Sard]

27 minutes ago, Mark F said:

I never played football...

what goes into running a route? It doesnt seem that complicated in theory, yet some can, and some cant do it. also, finding open spot. why are some players able to do that?

I guess speed and start stop, quick cuts, but some players with physical ability cant do it well

when dressler played for sask... he was always open v. Bombers. it was irritating. and they couldnt tackle him. tip toing down the sidelines. 

I think it's the same in many sports and just comes down to awareness... some guys just know what's going on around them and others don't.  I play Ultimate, and I can usually tell the people who've played other sports growing up because they tend to have an awareness of where others are on the field and that sort of thing, where some people are just clueless and always running into other people, or cutting people off.  I could see the same with the better route runners just knowing where the defenders and open spots are.  Some of it is from film study, knowing the other teams' tendencies, but a bigger part in my mind is that field awareness.  Ellingson, Schoen and Demski seem to have that awareness in spades because they are very good at finding the holes.

The part about running a route is the difference between being able to do a head fake and then a sharp 90 degree turn vs. just running a slow arc.  The crisp cuts will get you open, where the lazy arcs will make it super easy for the defender to stay with you.

[WBBFanWest]

25 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

What is wrong with teams wanting to keep their advantage, and why should any fan’s “need” to know supersede that? When Streveler had his foot injury in 2019 and it was known, the Stamps in their playoff game took every opportunity to grab and twist his ankle to hurt him if not knock him out of the game. Fajardo says the knowledge of his bad knee is leading to teams targeting him. It happens all the time, and players play hurt all the time. Protecting them is well above the gambler’s need for full disclosure in the team’s mind. 

Besides, as a gambler all you need to know is “is the player in or out this week before I place my bet?”. You have that information. Whether or not he is back next week is next week’s news. Why he is out this week is irrelevant for gambling purposes. This is not about gambling, it’s about the fan’s feeling of entitlement to be  “in the know”. And Mike O’Shea does not feel you are entitled to that information, because his need to protect his player and maintain an advantage in an effort to win games and keep his job is more important than a random fan’s feelings, IMO. 

Boy, I wish we had a mike drop emoji.  Oh wait...

[bearpants]

12 hours ago, Mr. Perfect said:

No offence intended but what difference would it make? If he can't go, next man up and get the win - and when Ellingson is ready (might as well wait until after the bye at this point) then giv'er hell. 

 

The only reason for Ellingson to play right now is for his own personal stats… and I think we all know he didn’t sign here to boost his personal accomplishments 

[Rod Black]

5 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Why are player injuries personal? I've never understood this. Sports is a business & athletes are public figures. They accept this when they agree to play professionally. It's part of the job description. If a guy has a knee injury & he's out for 8 weeks, he's out for 8 weeks. If a player has a dislocated hip & is gone for the season then so be it. A separated shoulder & out for 6 weeks then he's out for 6 weeks.

To me, it's nothing to do with protecting anyone or keeping injuries personal. Instead, it's teams not wanting to give away an advantage to opponents regading length of injury recoveries so it's kept a secret. With sports betting, teams should be announcing the kind of injuries players have & how long they're expected to be out of the lineup. Millions of dollars are being dropped every week. Protecting players is way down the list. Injuries shouldn't be kept a secret anymore. 

Oh the good ol’ days when we knew what exactly what happened to Fred Stamps. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Rod Black

[Bubba Zanetti]

5 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

Oh the good ol’ days when we knew what exactly what happened to Fred Stamps. 

[Super Duper Negatron]

I am going to take this opportunity to add Fred Stamps to my list of opposing players that I had huge respect for.

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 hours ago, Mark F said:

I never played football...

what goes into running a route? It doesnt seem that complicated in theory, yet some can, and some cant do it. also, finding open spot. why are some players able to do that?

I guess speed and start stop, quick cuts, but some players with physical ability cant do it well

when dressler played for sask... he was always open v. Bombers. it was irritating. and they couldnt tackle him. tip toing down the sidelines. 

The guys can all run the routes as they are drawn up on the page.  But guys usually have a few that are stronger for them based on their strengths like speed, physicality, how strong their hands are and how they can adjust their hands and body to the ball high low inside outside.

Then the big thing is how guys are able to adjust their routes to the coverage, and in a way that gives the QB an opportunity to find them whether they are the first read or it's more of a scramble play.  It's all about gaining leverage on the defender and then breaking into open space, might not be much space but enough.  The chances of someone getting completely wide open basically come down to a defense completely ******* up their own coverages.

There's the physical piece and the mental piece and only a few great ones truly master both.  You'll see a guy who is 5'7 with a 4.6 40 dominate the league and a 6'5 guy with a 4.3 who can do 30 reps at 225 fail repeatedly because he doesn't get the mental aspect.

[Jpan85]

13 hours ago, Mark H. said:

That's royal treatment. End zone used to be less than 20 bucks, in the old stadium. 

First year I had season tickets it was $5 a game in the north endzone and this was only in 2000

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, Jpan85 said:

First year I had season tickets it was $5 a game in the north endzone and this was only in 2000

In my first year (06) I think it was $100 for the season. Amazing deal. 

[Jpan85]

Just now, Noeller said:

In my first year (06) I think it was $100 for the season. Amazing deal. 

I know it was great for a 16 year old kid. I remember giving my friend a nice crisp fifty to pay for them. Back then the tickets came in one giant sheet.

[Mark H.]

3 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

First year I had season tickets it was $5 a game in the north endzone and this was only in 2000

I recall a game day section K ticket for $17. IIRC correctly, it was during the Doug Berry era. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

If you want a laugh look at Goldeyes ticket prices.

Can go to a MLB game in almost every park for less.

[Geebrr]

11 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

If you want a laugh look at Goldeyes ticket prices.

Can go to a MLB game in almost every park for less.

Ha! Plenty of good seats available for Monday - like all of them. 
 

Sam Katz is a lowlife 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

The guys can all run the routes as they are drawn up on the page.  But guys usually have a few that are stronger for them based on their strengths like speed, physicality, how strong their hands are and how they can adjust their hands and body to the ball high low inside outside.

Then the big thing is how guys are able to adjust their routes to the coverage, and in a way that gives the QB an opportunity to find them whether they are the first read or it's more of a scramble play.  It's all about gaining leverage on the defender and then breaking into open space, might not be much space but enough.  The chances of someone getting completely wide open basically come down to a defense completely ******* up their own coverages.

There's the physical piece and the mental piece and only a few great ones truly master both.  You'll see a guy who is 5'7 with a 4.6 40 dominate the league and a 6'5 guy with a 4.3 who can do 30 reps at 225 fail repeatedly because he doesn't get the mental aspect.

Also, some receivers (Derel Walker I'm looking at you) will run half arsed routes if they know they are not the primary or second reads and end up not getting the touches they might if they worked a little harder. Also, film room work....knowing not only the defence you are playing but the strength and weaknesses of the personell week to week. I guess that's kind of covered under work ethic as well but more of a preparation work ethic.

43 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

First year I had season tickets it was $5 a game in the north endzone and this was only in 2000

I remember buying Fun Zone tix at 7/11 when I was a teenager. Can't remember how much they were but my allowance covered it and the bus back and forth. Must have been super cheap because I didn't get much for an allowance.

Edited August 4, 2022 by GCn20

[Bigblue204]

4 hours ago, Mark F said:

I never played football...

what goes into running a route? It doesnt seem that complicated in theory, yet some can, and some cant do it. also, finding open spot. why are some players able to do that?

I guess speed and start stop, quick cuts, but some players with physical ability cant do it well

when dressler played for sask... he was always open v. Bombers. it was irritating. and they couldnt tackle him. tip toing down the sidelines. 

I think others have already adequately answered this question which is why I'm not going to. But I was just having this conversation with a friend last night. And I just talked about why stuff like route running (basically individual battles) is one of the reasons why I love football so much. There are so many games inside the game that really impact how well one teams plays. There are chess battles on top of chess battles.

[Mark F]

2 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

he doesn't get the mental aspect.

vikings had cordarelle patterson, coaches said he couldnt run routes, after a few teams he is in atlanta, where they got him to run routes fine. love that guy, he took a lot of abuse.

anyway, thanks for the explanation.... makes sense. and the other explanations, @Sard appreciate it.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Mark F

[JuranBoldenRules]

53 minutes ago, Mark F said:

vikings had cordarelle patterson, coaches said he couldnt run routes, after a few teams he is in atlanta, where they got him to run routes fine. love that guy, he took a lot of abuse.

anyway, thanks for the explanation.... makes sense. and the other explanations, @Sard appreciate it.

 

Well they've turned him into a running back since he's been in Chicago.  His strength is having the ball not going downfield to get it.

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Rod Black said:

Oh the good ol’ days when we knew what exactly what happened to Fred Stamps. 

I don't understand the reference to Fred Stamps or what it means but up until about 15 years ago teams used to announce the type of injuries players had & how long they'd be out. I don't recall any player back then claiming mental anguish by teams announcing their injuries & expected recovery times. Someone please explain to me the need for players to be protected. I really want to know.

[Bubba Zanetti]

7 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't understand the reference to Fred Stamps or what it means but up until about 15 years ago teams used to announce the type of injuries players had & how long they'd be out. I don't recall any player back then claiming mental anguish by teams announcing their injuries & expected recovery times. Someone please explain to me the need for players to be protected. I really want to know.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjV2ciy7q35AhUuj4kEHSAkDKIQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnationalpost.com%2Fsports%2Ffootball%2Fcfl%2Fthe-sad-story-of-eskimos-slotback-fred-stamps-lost-********&usg=AOvVaw3mcIq4QPOUDjPMQl8hrGc5

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

In my first year (06) I think it was $100 for the season. Amazing deal. 

I bought 2 seats in 1974 & had them nearly 20 seasons. East side Winnipeg Stadium. Section V Row 29 Seats 12 & 13. My seats were $5 a game to sit on the 55 yard line. Imagine buying two seats on the 55 yard line for $10.00. It was $2.50 to sit in the North End Zone. The season cost me $100 for the season.

Missed one game that entire time. I was in my friends's wedding party in 1984 & I had to go to rehearsal. that was the night the BC Lions came to town & we had a huge thunderstorm. It almost flooded out the stadium. The field had a lake & players were diving into the water hydroplaning. I was glad I was safe & dry in a church that night.

4 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjV2ciy7q35AhUuj4kEHSAkDKIQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnationalpost.com%2Fsports%2Ffootball%2Fcfl%2Fthe-sad-story-of-eskimos-slotback-fred-stamps-lost-********&usg=AOvVaw3mcIq4QPOUDjPMQl8hrGc5

Thanks, I remember that now...

[Mark F]

24 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Well they've turned him into a running back since he's been in Chicago.  His strength is having the ball not going downfield to get it.

ah, thought he was still receiver 😂

 

wow, O shea is going to pass  kindly Cal for wins maybe this season.

ed tait

"Winnipeg: Mike O’Shea has a career won-lost record of 75-55. O’Shea’s 75 wins as a Blue Bombers head coach ranks third on the club’s all-time list, behind only Bud Grant (102) and Cal Murphy (86)."

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Mark F

[Rich]

15 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't understand the reference to Fred Stamps or what it means but up until about 15 years ago teams used to announce the type of injuries players had & how long they'd be out. I don't recall any player back then claiming mental anguish by teams announcing their injuries & expected recovery times. Someone please explain to me the need for players to be protected. I really want to know.

Don’t know if this plays into it, but privacy laws have changed quite a bit in that time. You can’t disclose someone else’s medical condition without their consent. 

[Rod Black]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't understand the reference to Fred Stamps or what it means but up until about 15 years ago teams used to announce the type of injuries players had & how long they'd be out. I don't recall any player back then claiming mental anguish by teams announcing their injuries & expected recovery times. Someone please explain to me the need for players to be protected. I really want to know.

In order to make a bet, what is the difference if the player has a lower body injury or a sprained ankle, and will not play. The specifics of an injury become irrelevant if the player ain’t going to play. The club should know what the specific injury as they have a role in managing it and the recovery. For a fan to know it’s a lower body injury, a sprained ankle, or a broken third toe with a pulled muscle in the ankle and with complications to the knee and calf, really doesn’t help be a better fan or gambler imo. Further, when unrelated disease or mental help issues arise, stuff that Carrie’s significant stigma, it really is not a fans business. The club should know though and keep it private.
The other thing is, players don’t need to claim mental anguish by having teams announce injuries. Through the development of privacy laws, Players have a right to some degree of a private life. Most people shouldn’t have a problem respecting that. IMO. 

You don’t tell your boss you have a Venerial Desease and they don’t have a right to know for a brief absence. Yet they have a right to know when your coming back. It’s very similar to players as they are employees, high profile employees and celebrities in many cases, but you don’t need pry and blab about their weaknesses. IMO 

with that theory, now you know. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Don’t know if this plays into it, but privacy laws have changed quite a bit in that time. You can’t disclose someone else’s medical condition without their consent. 

Doesn't really apply to sports injuries for professional athletes.  Otherwise the gaming industry would be ruined.

It's more teams being careful with guys who are likely to return to play without being fully recovered.