Week 12 - Stumps @ Back-To-Back Grey Cup Champions - GDT

[Slimy Sculpin]

12 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I've watched longer than you and I can tell you that the refs wrong calls decide a lot more games in 40 years than you can count on one hand.

Last night they got a fumble wrong (That's a fact, not conjecture or a 'what if' argument).  It allowed us to keep the ball instead of giving it to the Stamps & allowed us to get 3 un-earned points. That's the definition of an instance when the refs made the wrong call that possibly changed the outcome of the game because we won by 2. If their QB had fumbled and they'd kept the ball, you know that most folks around here would be rightly whining about it.

There's nothing stupider or more aggravating than fans blaming the refs for calls that go against the team, like the RTP,  then saying you can't blame the refs for calls that go against the other team. You can blame the refs for both or neither, but anything else is just stupid.

I agree the the on-field officials got the call wrong. However, when they ruled it an incomplete pass, the whistle went and the majority of the players stopped (Yes, like all well-trained athletes, they played to the whistle.) Then it went up to the "command/control" centre for the final say and they, in my opinion, made the correct (and fair) call.

[TBURGESS]

15 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

I agree the the on-field officials got the call wrong. However, when they ruled it an incomplete pass, the whistle went and the majority of the players stopped (Yes, like all well-trained athletes, they played to the whistle.) Then it went up to the "command/control" centre for the final say and they, in my opinion, made the correct (and fair) call.

The quick whistle was the whole problem. Let the play continue and then sort it out afterwards. Refs do that all the time.

The call was correct after the challenge. No immediate recovery = no ball to the Stamps.

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Stickem said:

AND I suppose Tricky Dickie's guys don't ever hold inside .....right Dave....This guy is the biggest whining weiner in the league....bar none...

2nd stamps td i think it was guy inside holding on for dear life.

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Last night they got a fumble wrong

They called it an incomplete pass, that's what it looked like live. The review got the fumble part correct but the rules are clear, needs to be immediately recovered to change possession and it wasn't.

[Booch]

The fumble/incomplete pass was called correct...whistled dead on the thought it was incomplete.

Review confirmd it was a fumble...but since no immediate possession it's not a turn over...its black and white...and rule is there as guys quit after whistle and it's also to avoid injury occurring...so not a gift to wpg..or theft from CGY...so that argument holds no weight that it was reason for outcome.

The rtp call tho...did not fit the rules...and result of it cause a 3 point lead become 2 point..and we could of lost on a late fg...

[kelownabomberfan]

4 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Please stop being creepy, talking about my wiener. As magnificent as it is, I'm certain you've never laid eyes on it..

I think that he was talking about Dickenson, not you, but hey if you want to fantasize about guys here talking about your wiener, go for it.

1 hour ago, Booch said:

The fumble/incomplete pass was called correct...whistled dead on the thought it was incomplete.

Review confirmd it was a fumble...but since no immediate possession it's not a turn over...its black and white...and rule is there as guys quit after whistle and it's also to avoid injury occurring...so not a gift to wpg..or theft from CGY...so that argument holds no weight that it was reason for outcome.

The rtp call tho...did not fit the rules...and result of it cause a 3 point lead become 2 point..and we could of lost on a late fg...

100% agree.  There is a reason the refs blow the whistle, they want to protect players from injury.  Suck it Dickenson, the play was dead.  Fumble or no fumble, it's a dead ball when the refs blow the whistle.  Dickenson was an idiot to even challenge that.  

 

[TBURGESS]

15 hours ago, 17to85 said:

They called it an incomplete pass, that's what it looked like live. The review got the fumble part correct but the rules are clear, needs to be immediately recovered to change possession and it wasn't.

That's called getting the call wrong. All they had to do was let the play continue, which refs do all the time, and let the CC sort it out. That would have given the ball to the Stamps who deserved it & would have reduced our score by 3. It's not the first time the refs have done the 'I toght I ta an incomplete pass' and given the ball to the wrong team. It's a refs mistake every time it happens.

[TrueBlue4ever]

13 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

That's called getting the call wrong. All they had to do was let the play continue, which refs do all the time, and let the CC sort it out. That would have given the ball to the Stamps who deserved it & would have reduced our score by 3. It's not the first time the refs have done the 'I toght I ta an incomplete pass' and given the ball to the wrong team. It's a refs mistake every time it happens.

Of the ref thinks the play is dead, they blow the whistle. You never “wait and see”, because then players could get hurt. It’s ridiculous to say they shouldn’t have stopped the play. The call on the field is incomplete pass, you blow the play dead. 

[Booch]

Who's to say CGY doesnt go 2 and out...punt from endzone and we back in fg range again immediately??...or they turn it over...coulda...woulda....shoulda...cant script what ifs....a play in second quarter shouldn't and doesnt result in the loss...and even so...we were driving at end to score anyway...field goal...touchdown...who knows...so it didnt matter....just like the bogus rtp call could of effected the outcome...it didnt... but who knows what happens if that is a second and 10..instead of a first down 10 yards down the field....time to move on...was a win and is in the standings

[TBURGESS]

31 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Of the ref thinks the play is dead, they blow the whistle. You never “wait and see”, because then players could get hurt. It’s ridiculous to say they shouldn’t have stopped the play. The call on the field is incomplete pass, you blow the play dead. 

If it's close, you don't blow the whistle. Players play to the whistle, so they are in no more danger than they would be in any play. It's ridiculous to say that the extra 2 or 3 seconds put players in danger.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

If it's close, you don't blow the whistle. Players play to the whistle, so they are in no more danger than they would be in any play. It's ridiculous to say that the extra 2 or 3 seconds put players in danger.

So why have on-field officials at all?

They have to make a call even if it's close.

Collaros dives for a "potential fumble" incomplete pass they didn't blow dead and breaks his wrist or separates his shoulder and then what?

The whistle would have been moot on the review if Calgary made a clean recovery.  There's no issue with the application of the rule or replay for those type of plays.

[Stickem]

6 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

 

Collaros dives for a "potential fumble" incomplete pass they didn't blow dead and breaks his wrist or separates his shoulder and then what?

 

ewwwww ...you just brought back a very bad Glenn/Blink nightmare .....But you're right ....you never know what could have happened with the extension of that play

[17to85]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

If it's close, you don't blow the whistle. Players play to the whistle, so they are in no more danger than they would be in any play. It's ridiculous to say that the extra 2 or 3 seconds put players in danger.

They didn't think it was close live though. Incomplete passes they always blow the whistle. They don't wait and see. 

[Jesse]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They didn't think it was close live though. Incomplete passes they always blow the whistle. They don't wait and see. 

This.

It's only a "mistake" in retrospect; therefore, not a mistake at all. 

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

So why have on-field officials at all?

They have to make a call even if it's close.

Collaros dives for a "potential fumble" incomplete pass they didn't blow dead and breaks his wrist or separates his shoulder and then what?

The whistle would have been moot on the review if Calgary made a clean recovery.  There's no issue with the application of the rule or replay for those type of plays.

On field officials are there to make the calls on the field. The CC is there to correct the ones that they miss. The CC can't correct the "I thought it was an incomplete pass when it was a fumble" unless the on field refs don't blow the whistle until the fumble is secured or get rid of the so called clean recovery. The current rule was applied properly, but the wrong team ended up with the ball and got 3 points they didn't deserve.

46 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They didn't think it was close live though. Incomplete passes they always blow the whistle. They don't wait and see. 

They were wrong. That's the point. Let me say it again... They were wrong in their call. The wrong team retained the ball. The wrong team got points. The team that should of got the ball was wronged.

The CFL needs to fix this issue. The only two things that can make that happen are: Don't blow the whistle until the fumble is secured OR Give the ball to the right team as long as they make any kind of recovery. Don't blow the whistle is really the only one that makes sense, because the CFL doesn't want players continuing plays after the whistle has sounded. We're not talking about every play, we're talking about fumble/forward pass plays. Maybe one a month over all the games.

[Jesse]

36 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

On field officials are there to make the calls on the field. The CC is there to correct the ones that they miss. The CC can't correct the "I thought it was an incomplete pass when it was a fumble" unless the on field refs don't blow the whistle until the fumble is secured or get rid of the so called clean recovery. The current rule was applied properly, but the wrong team ended up with the ball and got 3 points they didn't deserve.

They were wrong. That's the point. Let me say it again... They were wrong in their call. The wrong team retained the ball. The wrong team got points. The team that should of got the ball was wronged.

The CFL needs to fix this issue. The only two things that can make that happen are: Don't blow the whistle until the fumble is secured OR Give the ball to the right team as long as they make any kind of recovery. Don't blow the whistle is really the only one that makes sense, because the CFL doesn't want players continuing plays after the whistle has sounded. We're not talking about every play, we're talking about fumble/forward pass plays. Maybe one a month over all the games.

This is wrong. The players on the field heard the whistle and stopped playing.

We don't know who might have got possession if the whistles were not blown.

The whistles were blown - appropriately in everyone's mind but yours - and nothing should have been done differently after that point. 

[Booch]

Any incomplete pass is whistled dead...immediately...always...u dont give a 3 count and then blow it just in case.

Everyone and their dog...commentators...and prob everyone watching thought it was an incomplete pass...until first replays were shown ...in slow mo was it realized...but was already whistled dead before an immediate recovery...and the 2 cgy players close botched it and didnt secure it...Grey was standing right over the ball almost and let up...at the whistle...he only reacted a bit when he saw the 2 cgy guys scrambling...so the call...review and result was as per rules...nothing to see here

[TBURGESS]

Fact: Refs got the call wrong.

Fact: Refs gave the ball to the wrong team.

Fact: It took a turnover away from Calgary AND allowed us to get 3 points.

Fact: We won by 2 points.

Fix: Wait until the ball is recovered to blow the whistle even if the Refs call it an incomplete pass. Could be done today with a memo to all teams.

Notes:

It won't slow the game down, because it only happens a few times a month.

It won't cause more injuries any more than a few seconds of any play.

Getting the calls right is the most important job of the Refs.

[Jesse]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

Fact: Refs got the call wrong.

Fact: Refs gave the ball to the wrong team.

Fact: It took a turnover away from Calgary AND allowed us to get 3 points.

Fact: We won by 2 points.

Fix: Wait until the ball is recovered to blow the whistle even if the Refs call it an incomplete pass. Could be done today with a memo to all teams.

Notes:

It won't slow the game down, because it only happens a few times a month.

It won't cause more injuries any more than a few seconds of any play.

Getting the calls right is the most important job of the Refs.

None of these are facts.

[JuranBoldenRules]

17 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Fact: Refs got the call wrong.

Fact: Refs gave the ball to the wrong team.

Fact: It took a turnover away from Calgary AND allowed us to get 3 points.

Fact: We won by 2 points.

Fix: Wait until the ball is recovered to blow the whistle even if the Refs call it an incomplete pass. Could be done today with a memo to all teams.

Notes:

It won't slow the game down, because it only happens a few times a month.

It won't cause more injuries any more than a few seconds of any play.

Getting the calls right is the most important job of the Refs.

Fact: If Calgary would have made a clean recovery of the fumble the whistle is moot.

They didn't so it's not a turnover.

[JCon]

Pathetic. 

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

None of these are facts.

Fact: We won by 2 points.

Checkmate.

BTW: The others are facts too.

Edited August 28, 2022 by TBURGESS

[Booch]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

None of these are facts.

Exactly

[Jesse]

23 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Fact: We won by 2 points.

Checkmate.

BTW: The others are facts too.

This is our impasse. 
 

You are declaring these facts as if the whistle didn’t happen - but it did.

You might wish that the refs have allowed the play to continue - but they didn’t.

 

[Booch]

Everything that happened on that play followed what is stated in rules...so what's the issue?? And yeah...on the field the ruled it an incomplete pass...CC overturned it to a fumble..and no recovery as per the rules...so what's the point?

Yeah their initial incomplete pass was wrong...but in games played past and present...and in future many fumbles have been overturned as incomplete passes...and incomplete passes have been as fumbles...it happens...and that's the facts....you fail to include the RTP call that does not fall within the rules that cost us a point....why? Knocking a pass down and simultaneously hitting QB...with hands on the back of the left shoulder...right on the name plate is not rtp as defined...in said rule book...

[TBURGESS]

10 minutes ago, Jesse said:

This is our impasse. 
You are declaring these facts as if the whistle didn’t happen - but it did.

You might wish that the refs have allowed the play to continue - but they didn’t.

 

The whistle happened. The CC proved that the wrong call was made. That makes it a fact. From that fact, we get that the ball was given to the wrong team etc.

The Refs made a mistake by whistling too soon. The CC proved that too.

2 Refs mistakes on the same play, Wrong call, Quick Whistle & all the CC can do is give us the ball back where we fumbled it. That shouldn't happen, but it does a few times a year under the current rules.

I offered a quick fix for this obvious problem.

I'd have hated it if it was Maier who fumbled, got the ball back and Calgary won by 2. I'm pretty sure everyone would be on my side if that had happened.