Hillbillies vs Back to Back Champs GDT

[17to85]

3 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

We could go back and forth for hours on this and never agree, so I will try to answer your question this way. I believe that his apologists do not believe he is blameless, and can acknowledge his flaws. But they see the opposite extreme in his critics, that he is the ONLY one to blame, and any success is never credited to him but outside factors. So they offer excuses (or examples) where they see that his detractors have exaggerated his mistakes and ignored his contributions, and it comes off as “you can’t see how lousy he is and make excuses for him” to those detractors. Just like the excuses for any success he had being totally not his doing (he had nothing to do with Milt or Khari’s success in 2002, Streveler succeeded and got an NFL shot in spite of what LaPo did to stagnate him, rather than how he changed the offence to suit Streveler’s strengths) creates push back. For whatever reason, he is a more polarizing figure than most. Some get very offended it seems if he is referred to as an “offensive guru” and use it as a derisive term when the reality is that he has had more success than not (statistically and in team wins and losses as a co-ordinator) with his schemes but is not re-inventing the wheel, others get equally offended when he is called “the most overrated” or “loser” when he has won more than he has lost as a co-ordinator, but has a poor head coaching record, and has been better in an established program than building it up from the bottom himself. Each side criticizing or praising in moderation could give a fair picture of what he brings and lacks as a coach, but the fight goes past him and to the stances of the posters themselves, so it becomes personal and the reactions to countering opinions becomes more defiant and immovable.  Fair?

You just don't pay attention though... I give lapo his credit for generally being a smart guy who does have a decent playbook. I just trash the **** out-of him (deservedly so) for his arrogance, outsmarted himself, passive play calling, and horrible in game awareness. 

Essentially if you just le him draw up plays he might be ok but calling a game? Terrible. 

Also really going to disagree that he changed the offense to suit strevers strengths. He made streveler one dimensional. Guy who came in as a rookie and could pass suddenly can't because of the changes to the offense? Lapo likes his gimmicks. 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

[17to85]

Hey I'll get along great when everyone else stops being wrong all the damned time.

[TrueBlue4ever]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Hey I'll get along great when everyone else stops being wrong all the damned time.

As long as we can agree that nothing was as gimmicky as Mike Kelly’s Jet formation or as arrogant as his call In show comments then everything else is Kool and the Gang. 

[Jpan85]

Lol 

 

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

We could go back and forth for hours on this and never agree, so I will try to answer your question this way. I believe that his apologists do not believe he is blameless, and can acknowledge his flaws. But they see the opposite extreme in his critics, that he is the ONLY one to blame, and any success is never credited to him but outside factors. So they offer excuses (or examples) where they see that his detractors have exaggerated his mistakes and ignored his contributions, and it comes off as “you can’t see how lousy he is and make excuses for him” to those detractors. Just like the excuses for any success he had being totally not his doing (he had nothing to do with Milt or Khari’s success in 2002, Streveler succeeded and got an NFL shot in spite of what LaPo did to stagnate him, rather than how he changed the offence to suit Streveler’s strengths) creates push back. For whatever reason, he is a more polarizing figure than most. Some get very offended it seems if he is referred to as an “offensive guru” and use it as a derisive term when the reality is that he has had more success than not (statistically and in team wins and losses as a co-ordinator) with his schemes but is not re-inventing the wheel, others get equally offended when he is called “the most overrated” or “loser” when he has won more than he has lost as a co-ordinator, but has a poor head coaching record, and has been better in an established program than building it up from the bottom himself. Each side criticizing or praising in moderation could give a fair picture of what he brings and lacks as a coach, but the fight goes past him and to the stances of the posters themselves, so it becomes personal and the reactions to countering opinions becomes more defiant and immovable.  Fair?

Name one reasonable starting QB that Lapolice developed as a play caller and/or head coach.

The answer is none.  And his entire tenure as a head coach he's needed one.

That's why he's terrible.

Great offensive coaches develop quarterbacks.  Lapolice makes excuses and kicks field goals when he's down 3 TD's in the 3rd quarter.  

[TrueBlue4ever]

27 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Name one reasonable starting QB that Lapolice developed as a play caller and/or head coach.

The answer is none.  And his entire tenure as a head coach he's needed one.

That's why he's terrible.

Great offensive coaches develop quarterbacks.  Lapolice makes excuses and kicks field goals when he's down 3 TD's in the 3rd quarter.  

Does Khari’s best season ever under him count? Or Darian Durant’s development into a starter? Buck Pierce when healthy had possibly his best season ever under LaPo. Matt Nichols had his best success under LaPolice’s offence. As for Streveler, I would argue in part his “regression” as a thrower was in part due to teams getting tape on him and figuring out how to defend him (don’t let him run and force him to beat you with his arm). He had the same offence that Nichols and Collaros had but with poorer results, more INTs, and a losing record. LaPo was able to tweak his game around his option play running scheme, and it garnered him an NFL look. Where he continues to struggle as a pure passer in his first few years (see Bomber Esiason’s scathing commentary in game after a bad Streveler pick). 

I get the perception since other than Durant he has not taken a raw rookie and made him a solid starter. And he isn’t the QB guru like the Stamps coaches. But words like “no one” and “terrible” is the kind of exaggeration that leads to push back from the “apologists”. But don’t equate that defence with “he is blameless” because he isn’t. He is a micromanager which killed him as a head coach, because he couldn’t decide if he wanted to manage the game or draw up the offence, and he was incapable of doing both effectively. He is not head coach material, no debate there. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

18 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Does Khari’s best season ever under him count? Or Darian Durant’s development into a starter? Buck Pierce when healthy had possibly his best season ever under LaPo. Matt Nichols had his best success under LaPolice’s offence. As for Streveler, I would argue in part his “regression” as a thrower was in part due to teams getting tape on him and figuring out how to defend him (don’t let him run and force him to beat you with his arm). He had the same offence that Nichols and Collaros had but with poorer results, more INTs, and a losing record. LaPo was able to tweak his game around his option play running scheme, and it garnered him an NFL look. Where he continues to struggle as a pure passer in his first few years (see Bomber Esiason’s scathing commentary in game after a bad Streveler pick). 

I get the perception since other than Durant he has not taken a raw rookie and made him a solid starter. And he isn’t the QB guru like the Stamps coaches. But words like “no one” and “terrible” is the kind of exaggeration that leads to push back from the “apologists”. But don’t equate that defence with “he is blameless” because he isn’t. He is a micromanager which killed him as a head coach, because he couldn’t decide if he wanted to manage the game or draw up the offence, and he was incapable of doing both effectively. He is not head coach material, no debate there. 

Durant was in Sask with Barrett’s regime then with Ken Miller as playcaller.  Lapo chose Crandell and Bishop over him in 08.

Khari was already league MOP before Lapo was here.  Lapo made that team worse and had basically all the playmakers injured by playoffs both years.

Lapo has developed no one.

Look at Buck’s BC stats…he didn’t have his best years here…he was 14 TDs to 18 picks in 2011.

Only guy who had a career year here under Lapo as head coach was Jyles.

[TrueBlue4ever]

13 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Durant was in Sask with Barrett’s regime then with Ken Miller as playcaller.  Lapo chose Crandell and Bishop over him in 08.

Khari was already league MOP before Lapo was here.  Lapo made that team worse and had basically all the playmakers injured by playoffs both years.

Lapo has developed no one.

Look at Buck’s BC stats…he didn’t have his best years here…he was 14 TDs to 18 picks in 2011.

Only guy who had a career year here under Lapo as head coach was Jyles.

Putting aside Durant’s ‘09 season, and Matt Nichols career in Winnipeg, I’ll just ask you how are the injuries to the Bomber playmakers in 2002 and 2003 the fault of the OC?

Edited October 4, 2022 by TrueBlue4ever

[SpeedFlex27]

12 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

We could go back and forth for hours on this and never agree, so I will try to answer your question this way. I believe that his apologists do not believe he is blameless, and can acknowledge his flaws. But they see the opposite extreme in his critics, that he is the ONLY one to blame, and any success is never credited to him but outside factors. So they offer excuses (or examples) where they see that his detractors have exaggerated his mistakes and ignored his contributions, and it comes off as “you can’t see how lousy he is and make excuses for him” to those detractors. Just like the excuses for any success he had being totally not his doing (he had nothing to do with Milt or Khari’s success in 2002, Streveler succeeded and got an NFL shot in spite of what LaPo did to stagnate him, rather than how he changed the offence to suit Streveler’s strengths) creates push back. For whatever reason, he is a more polarizing figure than most. Some get very offended it seems if he is referred to as an “offensive guru” and use it as a derisive term when the reality is that he has had more success than not (statistically and in team wins and losses as a co-ordinator) with his schemes but is not re-inventing the wheel, others get equally offended when he is called “the most overrated” or “loser” when he has won more than he has lost as a co-ordinator, but has a poor head coaching record, and has been better in an established program than building it up from the bottom himself. Each side criticizing or praising in moderation could give a fair picture of what he brings and lacks as a coach, but the fight goes past him and to the stances of the posters themselves, so it becomes personal and the reactions to countering opinions becomes more defiant and immovable.  Fair?

Can't you use paragraphs for the daily 3 or 4 theses you like to write. Why do you expect anyone to read what you say when it looks like a 500 to a thousand word run on sentence everytime? Either that or shorten what you have to say. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[GCn20]

10 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Lol 

 

 

Awww man....sometimes Rider fans just make it too easy.

[GCn20]

8 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Durant was in Sask with Barrett’s regime then with Ken Miller as playcaller.  Lapo chose Crandell and Bishop over him in 08.

Khari was already league MOP before Lapo was here.  Lapo made that team worse and had basically all the playmakers injured by playoffs both years.

Lapo has developed no one.

Look at Buck’s BC stats…he didn’t have his best years here…he was 14 TDs to 18 picks in 2011.

Only guy who had a career year here under Lapo as head coach was Jyles.

Same could be said for a lot of OC's. No QB...no chance. That's life in the CFL, and very few QBs are developed along the way. That's why we consistently roll out guys like Vernon Adams, Cody Fajardo. Matt Nichols, etc over the past several years. It's the reason that a clearly broken BLM will get a contract, it is why 2 teams traded against long odds on Collaros's concussion problem. I agree with a lot of what you are saying about Lapo, but holding it against him that he has never developed a QB is a criticism a lot of OCs in our league wear.

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Can't you use paragraphs for the daily 3 or 4 theses you like to write. Why do you expect anyone to read what you say when it looks like a 500 to a thousand word run on sentence everytime? Either that or shorten what you have to say. 

‘K

[blue_gold_84]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Can't you use paragraphs for the daily 3 or 4 theses you like to write. Why do you expect anyone to read what you say when it looks like a 500 to a thousand word run on sentence everytime? Either that or shorten what you have to say. 

[17to85]

Matt Nichols had his best years here.... no ****! He was always hurt in edmonton and winnipeg was the only place he got to play. Nichols came in and played great and gradually got worse the longer he stayed to the point where he got his shoulder crippled. (Hey khari got his shoulder crippled too,  go Lapo!)

[JCon]

Please, someone, just make it stop. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

16 minutes ago, JCon said:

Please, someone, just make it stop. 

End of discussion. 

[Bigblue204]

16 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Will never understand why Paul Lapolice has so many apologists... Man has the same problems follow him around everywhere he goes but remains blameless in some people's eyes.

I'm really surprised to see you say something like this.

[Booch]

10 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Does Khari’s best season ever under him count? Or Darian Durant’s development into a starter? Buck Pierce when healthy had possibly his best season ever under LaPo. Matt Nichols had his best success under LaPolice’s offence. As for Streveler, I would argue in part his “regression” as a thrower was in part due to teams getting tape on him and figuring out how to defend him (don’t let him run and force him to beat you with his arm). He had the same offence that Nichols and Collaros had but with poorer results, more INTs, and a losing record. LaPo was able to tweak his game around his option play running scheme, and it garnered him an NFL look. Where he continues to struggle as a pure passer in his first few years (see Bomber Esiason’s scathing commentary in game after a bad Streveler pick). 

I get the perception since other than Durant he has not taken a raw rookie and made him a solid starter. And he isn’t the QB guru like the Stamps coaches. But words like “no one” and “terrible” is the kind of exaggeration that leads to push back from the “apologists”. But don’t equate that defence with “he is blameless” because he isn’t. He is a micromanager which killed him as a head coach, because he couldn’t decide if he wanted to manage the game or draw up the offence, and he was incapable of doing both effectively. He is not head coach material, no debate there. 

Khari...i say nope...as that was a drop back and chuck offense...stretching field...taking chances

Durant...could care less about Rider drivel...but from what I recall wasnt that slop Lapo serves up now...was more a standard push it offence...and a QB who made stuff happen with legs...same with Buck's handfull of games where he was healthy...they pushed the ball....didnt play the style he promotes now.

Matt Nicols as well started out here with a more vertical attack, and it morphed into the Lapo way...and Streveler was just fine his first season as a thrower, and a runner...he got nuetered when Lapo realized what a runner he was, and made him into this gimmick project, and it hampered his success as a passer, and he rarely was in schemes to be throw first...and teams seen it, as did everyone else...when he came in you knew exactly what was gonna happen. There was no way it was Lapo's brainwave that got Strev his NFL look....he got a look as he had 4 yrs now under his belt as a QB with success, as coming out of school he basically had barely 2 yrs as a QB....but if you look at his tape he was a passer with gaudy passing stats, and great running stats.

if you take what Boomer says as an indication of anything...I dont know what to say....based on 1 play...thats just laughable

Collaros was able to make things work within that Lapo system but if you break it down and look at it...he went off script, and looked downfield, and created plays...look at Harris recieving numbers when Collaros took over, as well as target location on the field....it all but dried up for Harris, as did the targets from 2-3 yards from line of scrimmage and behind....and the teams over all record since is reflective of the play not to lose Lapo scheme...

He was decent to a point in the early stages of his career, but after he did his U.S tour of football clubs to "gather" ideas, he turned himself into a self generated smartly pants. trying to be the smartest dude in the room and the results from that point on forward were average at best....we won the cup here in 2019 despite his system...not because of it...

 

[Booch]

10 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Putting aside Durant’s ‘09 season, and Matt Nichols career in Winnipeg, I’ll just ask you how are the injuries to the Bomber playmakers in 2002 and 2003 the fault of the OC?

i dunno......look at the injuries Buck has dealt with here...starting center...knicked up tackles.....ellingson out....demski missing games....woli out....as well as integrating a new RB....and we humming along just fine...so a good OC it appears gets the  most, and production out of his players available....I guess an average one doesnt??

10 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

End of discussion. 

that cup wasnt a result of Lapo's offence....funny that Buck is that picture too, as he had a huge hand in things as well...and his offence now is night and day more explosive and prolific....if you wanna say the success was a result of the OC...Then Buck has slayed Lapo as he is 25-5 as the OC

[bearpants]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Awww man....sometimes Rider fans just make it too easy.

It's like their twitter account is actively trying to get made fun of... this Dan Clark tweet and the other one about "positives from the last game" are simply just laughable... if our teams were reversed, I'd be so embarrassed of my team

[Booch]

1 minute ago, bearpants said:

It's like their twitter account is actively trying to get made fun of... this Dan Clark tweet and the other one about "positives from the last game" are simply just laughable... if our teams were reversed, I'd be so embarrassed of my team

yeah...wtf were those??....just sad

[17to85]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

End of discussion. 

Notice how he needs someone else to help him lift that up?

[Super Duper Negatron]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

End of discussion. 

Bah. He probably took small, methodical sips. I want a coach who will chug that ****.

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

we won the cup here in 2019

 

FIFY. The rest TLDR but I got the gist of it. 0% credit, 100% blame. Again. 

1 hour ago, Booch said:

and his offence now is night and day more explosive and prolific....if you wanna say the success was a result of the OC...Then Buck has slayed Lapo as he is 25-5 as the OC

2016 -  27.6 ppg, 363.7 ypg

2017 - 30.8 ppg, 361.4 ypg

2018 - 30.6 ppg, 369.4 ypg

2019 - 28.2 ppg, 349.0 ypg

2021 - 25.8 ppg, 346.1 ypg

2022 - 28.9 ppg, 360.7 ypg

 

And yeah, Buck is slaying it, deserves a lot of credit for his part in it. Must have also had a good teacher. And a healthy QB. 

14 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Bah. He probably took small, methodical sips. I want a coach who will chug that ****.

Probably did. And the guy who chugged early probably got too drunk to lift the Cup and passed out too early. The methodical guy made it to the end of the evening and was able to walk out the door with the Cup in his hands at the end of the night.