Still love this team

[Arnold_Palmer]

1 hour ago, bearpants said:

Am I overthinking this and being unnecessarily paranoid?... But looking back on our last two playoff runs... The Bomber haven't played a good, complete game in any of those playoff games... 2021 West Final against Sask, played a bad game and scraped out a win.... 2021 Grey Cup, played bad three quarters but took over for one quarter and pulled it off... 2022 West Final, played an OK game and made enough plays when it counted to win... 2022 Grey Cup, simply didn't play very good and lost...

We still walk away with one Grey Cup in the last two years... but it's a bit of a troubling trend

 

Look at the weather conditions. Football in late November and early December aren’t optimal for offences. It’s not like any of those teams we played in the playoffs in the last three years moved the ball at ease either. 

[Jesse]

3 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Look at the weather conditions. Football in late November and early December aren’t optimal for offences. It’s not like any of those teams we played in the playoffs in the last three years moved the ball at ease either. 

Our better play-off performances have been on the back of our running game - our struggles have come when we've gotten too cute in the passing game and thrown INTs.

[blue_gold_84]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

Our better play-off performances have been on the back of our running game - our struggles have come when we've gotten too cute in the passing game and thrown INTs.

This. And that 4th quarter possession that ended with Prukop's brutal pick sums it up, IMO. How do you watch your tailback break off a 13-yard run and think "let's run an ostensibly complicated passing play on first down using our backup QB?"

It boggles the mind.

Edited November 25, 2022 by blue_gold_84

[17to85]

18 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

let's run a complicated passing play on first down using our backup QB?"

It wasn't really a complicated passing play though... was pretty straight forward they just messed up the execution of it.

[Jesse]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It wasn't really a complicated passing play though... was pretty straight forward they just messed up the execution of it.

Bad call, bad execution on routes, bad choice by QB.

Nothing went right on that one; but Prukop shouldn't have been on the field, imo.

[Stickem]

For the life of me I can't figure out why they used Prukop on that drive.....IF it was going to be a passing play why not have Brown take the controls....UNLESS Prukop was told if there was nothing available downfield to take off, which makes sense because he's the better runner...I'm still scratching my head about our last minute of the season and how badly it was called and how badly it was executed....The offence left a lot to be desired in that Cup....and the D collapsed at a time when we needed them to dig deep, when Kelly took the reins ...Lot of ifs....buts and maybe's to ponder ....all in all not the best effort from the club when it was needed most...leaving a lot of our guys stunned and po'd right up to the time they cleared out their lockers................................next year

[GCn20]

Just now, Stickem said:

For the life of me I can't figure out why they used Prukop on that drive.....IF it was going to be a passing play why not have Brown take the controls....UNLESS Prukop was told if there was nothing available downfield to take off, which makes sense because he's the better runner...I'm still scratching my head about our last minute of the season and how badly it was called and how badly it was executed....The offence left a lot to be desired in that Cup....and the D collapsed at a time when we needed them to dig deep, when Kelly took the reins ...Lot of ifs....buts and maybe's to ponder ....all in all not the best effort from the club when it was needed most...leaving a lot of our guys stunned and po'd right up to the time they cleared out their lockers................................next year

IMO, this is a run play with a pass option. Prukop was supposed to take a look downfield and if his guy is wide open then go for it but if not use the legs. He went for it and that was the biggest mistake on this play.

26 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It wasn't really a complicated passing play though... was pretty straight forward they just messed up the execution of it.

Execution was brutal for many reasons. I don't mind the play call because I believe that Prukop was supposed to run unless Ellingson was wide open and clearly he wasn't. Bailey running the wrong route made the read even worse.

[bearpants]

2 hours ago, Jesse said:

Bad call, bad execution on routes, bad choice by QB.

Nothing went right on that one; but Prukop shouldn't have been on the field, imo.

I'm fine with Prukop being on the field in that situation... throws a wrench in TO's planning... but the call should be clear... if there isn't someone very obviously open downfield, you tuck and run or check down... don't throw it deep if there's any reasonable coverage there... that's on Prukop and the coaches

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

This. And that 4th quarter possession that ended with Prukop's brutal pick sums it up, IMO. How do you watch your tailback break off a 13-yard run and think "let's run an ostensibly complicated passing play on first down using our backup QB?"

It boggles the mind.

That's why the phrase "W... T...F....?" was coined.

[Slimy Sculpin]

Seems to me that Liegghio has taken a lot of criticism (most of it justified) over his kicking in the game. Heck, someone even called him out in a letter to the editor in the WFP. (Over the line, IMO.) However, although Buck P. has been on the receiving end of a few critical jabs after the game, mostly it has been crickets. IMO, proper execution or not, that was a horribly called game by him.

[Noeller]

People who aren't smart enough to see the forest for the trees, complain about the obvious thing "Well, we didn't make that last kick, so we need a new kicker..." and they don't look at the plethora of things that went wrong in that game, including the offense having a relative pants-shitting. They also don't look at the massive leap Liegghio took from last year to this year, and think about the similar leap he could take from this year to next. It's not like P/Ks grow on trees...... we have a near-95% CIS kicker who has a MASSIVE ceiling, if we let him grow into it. He's not the reason we lost that game. I'd hate to see him go be an all-star for another team next year....

[Mark H.]

I was concerned about that missed convert as soon as it happened - because of how poorly the offense was playing

There was a really strong sense that this would be a close game

Just my 0.02

[SpeedFlex27]

Every time Leggs lines up to kick, I just hold my breath & say a prayer that he won't miss. 

[rebusrankin]

@Noeller and @Mark H.make some great points. Leggs gets singled out yet the offense played poorly all game including:

Buck's playcalling

Collaros's play the entire game

The OL giving up 4 sacks and allowing pressure the entire game

Some drops by the receivers

and then on special teams issues with kick coverage and while they played well overall the inability to stop a back up QB scambling by the D and the lack of turnovers that we've seen in the past.

[Noeller]

the fact that we had a ******* FG (!!) blocked gives me all sorts of flashbacks to 2001 and Bob Cameron, who almost NEVER had punts blocked, of course has one blocked and ends up a TD. One of the most sickening football plays of my life....and we see a similar thing happen again last Sunday. Sigh. Just ******* disgusting. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Wasn't our day as painful as it was to lose. That's about all that can be said. 

[Geebrr]

It is a paradox - I want to go 18-0 but I really do think not playing meaningful football for a month and a half the last two years has impacted us, so I want us to be slightly worse? 

[Noeller]

as I learned this past weekend, I'm not sure how I will handle things if we're not just expected to win every game of the season as long as our starters are in the game...... I mean, I'm sure there'll come a day, but I'm clearly not ready for that yet. I want 20-0 every year with 50-0 blowouts in every game. I will stand for nothing less! 

[SpeedFlex27]

14 minutes ago, Noeller said:

as I learned this past weekend, I'm not sure how I will handle things if we're not just expected to win every game of the season as long as our starters are in the game...... I mean, I'm sure there'll come a day, but I'm clearly not ready for that yet. I want 20-0 every year with 50-0 blowouts in every game. I will stand for nothing less! 

[SpeedFlex27]

Noeller, here's a story you'll appreciate. Twenty years ago, I was on the coaching staff of a high school team here in Calgary. The players were great & they tried hard in every game we played but we were awful. Virtually no experienced players or talent. Mostly rookies, We got our asses handed to us every game. We went 0-8 that season.

We got shut out in 7 of those 8 games. We were playing (I believe) our 6th game of the year & suddenly out of nowhere our offense started clicking. Our qb was throwing strikes & our fullback started ripping off some nice yardage. He was a big kid but green as grass. I remember he ran straight up. I was his coach. Damn if we didn't have a drive going instead of all the 2 & outs before. We got down to the one yard line. We tried to score but the other team's defense rose to the occasion. So, on third down the HC yells "Field Goal!!!" & out trots our kicker for his first FG attempt of the season. It was from 8 yards out. We thought it would be an automatic three points but... no that wasn't how our team worked. Why take the easy way when you can do it the hard way?? Our kicker missed & the ball sailed thru the end zone for a single point.

The kids erupted on the sidelines!!! They didn't care. We scored a point!! We scored a point!! We scored a point!! One measely single point which meant we wouldn't be shut out that season. The players were so happy jumping up & down, giving the Joe Namath one finger salute, hollering. yelling & laughing. You'd think we were City Champs. The other team must have thought we were insane. We ended up losing that game & were shut out the remaining 2 games but it didn't matter. We scored a frigging point!! That's what was so important to the kids. It saved that bleak season for them. Craziest thing I'd ever been a part of. The kicker became a hero on the team. I still chuckle when I think about it two decades later.

Just trying to cheer you up, Noeller my friend. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[Zach Schnitzer]

5 hours ago, bearpants said:

I'm fine with Prukop being on the field in that situation... throws a wrench in TO's planning... but the call should be clear... if there isn't someone very obviously open downfield, you tuck and run or check down... don't throw it deep if there's any reasonable coverage there... that's on Prukop and the coaches

I can’t pretend to know even a fraction of what Buck knows but why even put a 3rd stringer in that position? Especially when we were running the ball so well! Even if we keep running the ball and have to punt, we frickin win that game. At no point in the season did I see Prukop put in a situation like that. So why do it in the Grey Cup up by six? 

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2022-11-23 at 7:19 AM, Wideleft said:

This is exactly why I'm cooler on Lawler than a lot of people.  I don't think anyone is going to pay him 300K again, but his price is going to be very high.  Even the Riders will have freed up their Duke money.  Interested to hear what the "sign Lawler" advocates think his price tag is going to be.

It won't be $175,000. 

7 hours ago, Zach Schnitzer said:

I can’t pretend to know even a fraction of what Buck knows but why even put a 3rd stringer in that position? Especially when we were running the ball so well! Even if we keep running the ball and have to punt, we frickin win that game. At no point in the season did I see Prukop put in a situation like that. So why do it in the Grey Cup up by six? 

It was a dumb playcall. Anyone who says it wasn't at that time & place in the game well, I dunno what they're thinking. 

[Slimy Sculpin]

17 hours ago, Noeller said:

People who aren't smart enough to see the forest for the trees, complain about the obvious thing "Well, we didn't make that last kick, so we need a new kicker..." and they don't look at the plethora of things that went wrong in that game, including the offense having a relative pants-shitting. They also don't look at the massive leap Liegghio took from last year to this year, and think about the similar leap he could take from this year to next. It's not like P/Ks grow on trees...... we have a near-95% CIS kicker who has a MASSIVE ceiling, if we let him grow into it. He's not the reason we lost that game. I'd hate to see him go be an all-star for another team next year....

While I agree that there were several factors that lead to a one point loss last Sunday, I believe that at a minimum, the Bombers have to bring in some serious competition at kicker/punter position. (Darn, in spite of how poorly the Bombers played and were coached in certain aspects of the game, at the end, it was still there for the taking.)  Yes, Liegghio took a "massive leap" relative to last year. However, in three regular season games where he was kicking last year, he missed 3 of 8 FGs and 3 of 8 converts. It would be difficult to not improve on those numbers. So, he did. However, this year he was still 7th of 9 regular kickers in FG% and 8th of 9 in convert success. There was a definite improvement in his %s but relatively speaking he was mediocre at best. And for KOs (yd. per kick), he was 4th among regulars and with a 46.9 yd. punting average, he was 5th among regular punters.

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2022-11-25 at 10:51 AM, Arnold_Palmer said:

Look at the weather conditions. Football in late November and early December aren’t optimal for offences. It’s not like any of those teams we played in the playoffs in the last three years moved the ball at ease either. 

Weather & field conditions. The other teams weren't any screaming hell either. Besides, we blew the Grey Cup by shooting ourselves in the foot. The Prukop interception changed the outcome of the GC game. 

[GCn20]

On 2022-11-25 at 7:40 PM, Zach Schnitzer said:

I can’t pretend to know even a fraction of what Buck knows but why even put a 3rd stringer in that position? Especially when we were running the ball so well! Even if we keep running the ball and have to punt, we frickin win that game. At no point in the season did I see Prukop put in a situation like that. So why do it in the Grey Cup up by six? 

Only two scenarios make sense in my mind as to why Prukop hit the field for anything more than short yardage and perhaps a gadget play. One, is that Zach Collaros was banged up a lot worse than we were led to believe, and all week long they knew it and prepared a passing package for Prukop. Or two, as I stated earlier this is a run play with a pass option IF our guy is so wide open you gotta take the shot. I don't honestly believe the Bombers were trying to be too cute. I think that something led them to putting Prukop in, maybe out of necessity, maybe to run....but I doubt that Prukop made the correct read on that play. If this was a designed pass than Buck and OShea would have to be incredibly stupid not to have ZC being the one throwing it. I don't believe that Buck or Osh are stupid.