Still love this team

[17to85]

Remember 2019 when streveler threw the kill shot td to Harris? It's nothing more complicated than trying that again.

[GCn20]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Remember 2019 when streveler threw the kill shot td to Harris? It's nothing more complicated than trying that again.

The difference in passing attempts between 2019 Streveler and 2022 Prukop is not even comparable. It was a stupid play call if that was a designed pass. Prukop had less than a handful of passing attempts all year. Not the same, with the exception of maybe the element of surprise....even then....weak call if that was planned. We were moving the ball with the run, and didn't need much for what could have been a game winning TD.

A better comparable is if we would have sent Sean McGuire out in 2019 to try the kill shot. It would have been as non-sensical as Prukop doing it this year. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by GCn20

[17to85]

We generally had a pretty aggressive offense last season. Sometimes you get burned.

[Zach Schnitzer]

8 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Only two scenarios make sense in my mind as to why Prukop hit the field for anything more than short yardage and perhaps a gadget play. One, is that Zach Collaros was banged up a lot worse than we were led to believe, and all week long they knew it and prepared a passing package for Prukop. Or two, as I stated earlier this is a run play with a pass option IF our guy is so wide open you gotta take the shot. I don't honestly believe the Bombers were trying to be too cute. I think that something led them to putting Prukop in, maybe out of necessity, maybe to run....but I doubt that Prukop made the correct read on that play. If this was a designed pass than Buck and OShea would have to be incredibly stupid not to have ZC being the one throwing it. I don't believe that Buck or Osh are stupid.

I think the latter is what happened. Everyone I’ve talked to says that ZC was fine. That being said, in a Grey Cup game, up by six, with your run game going, there is no reason to put Prukop in that position. Prukop admitted he made the wrong read. That’s what 3rd stringers do. Cost us the game. Buck isn’t stupid, but this was stupid. 

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

We generally had a pretty aggressive offense last season. Sometimes you get burned.

There’s aggressive and there’s foolish. But that was the first time in the entire season they asked Prukop to make a read like that. Terrible decision by coaches. Foolish. 

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2022-11-25 at 6:40 PM, Zach Schnitzer said:

I can’t pretend to know even a fraction of what Buck knows but why even put a 3rd stringer in that position? Especially when we were running the ball so well! Even if we keep running the ball and have to punt, we frickin win that game. At no point in the season did I see Prukop put in a situation like that. So why do it in the Grey Cup up by six? 

That was the TSN Turning Point. We never recovered. The Argos rallied & won. 

[SpeedFlex27]

I can say this re-reading the comments about the Prukop pass. It was an incredibly stupid play call. I firmly believe that it cost us the Grey Cup. Usually a play call like that with such serious consequences would cost an OC his job because of such a poor decision & he'd be fired. However, neither I or anyone else want to see Buck go anywhere. I put that decision down to Buck still learning his position as a coordinator. He made a mistake. Hopefully, he'll learn from it & be a better coach for it in the future. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[Mark H.]

54 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He made a mistake. Hopefully, he'll learn from it & be a better coach for it in the future. 

And that's how this team rolls.

[17to85]

If the pass was completed we'd all be praising the brass set on our coaches and the brilliant timing of it.

[Zach Schnitzer]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

If the pass was completed we'd all be praising the brass set on our coaches and the brilliant timing of it.

But the pt is not only that it wasn’t completed but that it had a very high risk profile and was patently unnecessary at that pt in the game. We were up by 6 late in the fourth quarter with a great running game going. Bleed the clock and wear  them down. That’s Bomber football; winning football. It was a colossal mistake. 

[17to85]

and if they played conservative and lost we'd be bitching about that. you lose by 1 point there are a ton of plays that "lost you the game" this one was no worse than any of the others, 

[Mark H.]

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

and if they played conservative and lost we'd be bitching about that. you lose by 1 point there are a ton of plays that "lost you the game" this one was no worse than any of the others, 

There are always 'tipping point' plays that matter more than others.

[Zach Schnitzer]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

There are always 'tipping point' plays that matter more than others.

Exactly. Running the ball on FIRST down with 6 mins left in fourth up by six when the running game was established is NOT conservative. It’s smart football. 

[GCn20]

9 hours ago, Zach Schnitzer said:

But the pt is not only that it wasn’t completed but that it had a very high risk profile and was patently unnecessary at that pt in the game. We were up by 6 late in the fourth quarter with a great running game going. Bleed the clock and wear  them down. That’s Bomber football; winning football. It was a colossal mistake. 

I don't mind the play call per se. We had Prukop out in the flats with only a DE, with a bad angle to him, to beat one on one for a big yardage run. Prukop should have tucked and run. I just don't understand why he didn't. He easily rips off a 10-15 yard run...maybe more. I honestly still lay this on the feet of Prukop, unless there was a bust in coverage he should have been running. It is how the play was designed.

[Jesse]

11 hours ago, 17to85 said:

If the pass was completed we'd all be praising the brass set on our coaches and the brilliant timing of it.

And it would have been fine if Prukop saw a wide open guy and heaved it - but he saw tight coverage and thought he’d play hero.

Still a dumb play call.

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I don't mind the play call per se. We had Prukop out in the flats with only a DE, with a bad angle to him, to beat one on one for a big yardage run. Prukop should have tucked and run. I just don't understand why he didn't. He easily rips off a 10-15 yard run...maybe more. I honestly still lay this on the feet of Prukop, unless there was a bust in coverage he should have been running. It is how the play was designed.

I’m on the side of feeding Brady in the 4th. He was starting to heat up and should have been leaned on hard to close the game.

[17to85]

1 minute ago, Jesse said:

And it would have been fine if Prukop saw a wide open guy and heaved it - but he saw tight coverage and thought he’d play hero.

Still a dumb play call.

Did he see tight coverage? Cause when the decision was made to actually throw the ball it probably looked like one on one coverage with a receiver who has made a career out of winning those battles.  I'm telling you the biggest **** up on that play was thr 2nd receiver.

[Jesse]

Just now, 17to85 said:

Did he see tight coverage? Cause when the decision was made to actually throw the ball it probably looked like one on one coverage with a receiver who has made a career out of winning those battles.  I'm telling you the biggest **** up on that play was thr 2nd receiver.

I’m telling you that four things went wrong - the first of which was the play call itself.

[Zach Schnitzer]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Did he see tight coverage? Cause when the decision was made to actually throw the ball it probably looked like one on one coverage with a receiver who has made a career out of winning those battles.  I'm telling you the biggest **** up on that play was thr 2nd receiver.

That happens. ZC would’ve recognized it and went to a check down. Prukop did what most third stringer would do, made a bad decision and chucked it. Never should’ve been in that position. 

[17to85]

40 minutes ago, Zach Schnitzer said:

That happens. ZC would’ve recognized it and went to a check down. Prukop did what most third stringer would do, made a bad decision and chucked it. Never should’ve been in that position. 

Cause collaros wasn't throwing at the wrong team all night.... did you even watch the game? 

[WBBFanWest]

14 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I can say this re-reading the comments about the Prukop pass. It was an incredibly stupid play call. I firmly believe that it cost us the Grey Cup. Usually a play call like that with such serious consequences would cost an OC his job because of such a poor decision & he'd be fired. However, neither I or anyone else want to see Buck go anywhere. I put that decision down to Buck still learning his position as a coordinator. He made a mistake. Hopefully, he'll learn from it & be a better coach for it in the future. 

At least he didn't miss a convert.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I don't mind the play call per se. We had Prukop out in the flats with only a DE, with a bad angle to him, to beat one on one for a big yardage run. Prukop should have tucked and run. I just don't understand why he didn't. He easily rips off a 10-15 yard run...maybe more. I honestly still lay this on the feet of Prukop, unless there was a bust in coverage he should have been running. It is how the play was designed.

This was a case of a guy with no big game experience trying to make a highlight rather then making the smart play.   We needed to kill time on the clock and he had miles ahead of him for running... dude wanted to be a hero and it contributed to us losing.  At that point of the game we did NOT need a risky play in hopes to jolt life into the offense.  We needed to kill time on the clock and chip away at the field and hopefully get some points out of it.  We had FULL momentum prior to him throwing that int and that play completely changed the tides of the game. 

As I said before... LaPo used to get completely grilled by 127to85 for being to cute.... yet Pierce and Prukop do a cute play and aww shucks it didn't work out.   This was just a flat out terrible decision (mainly on Prukop) and had he ran 10 - 15 yards.   We more then likely talk about a 3 peat.   

**Edit*** I forgot to mention Brady running for 12 yards on the play before and the Toronto D looking tired on the field... running at that point of the game was the smart thing to do.  

Edited November 29, 2022 by Brandon

[Zach Schnitzer]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Cause collaros wasn't throwing at the wrong team all night.... did you even watch the game? 

Dude, I’m not saying Collaros was stellar. Would you not at least agree that Zach would be far more likely to make a better decision? Or you saying Prukop should’ve been MOP

[GCn20]

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

This was a case of a guy with no big game experience trying to make a highlight rather then making the smart play.   We needed to kill time on the clock and he had miles ahead of him for running... dude wanted to be a hero and it contributed to us losing.  At that point of the game we did NOT need a risky play in hopes to jolt life into the offense.  We needed to kill time on the clock and chip away at the field and hopefully get some points out of it.  We had FULL momentum prior to him throwing that int and that play completely changed the tides of the game. 

As I said before... LaPo used to get completely grilled by 127to85 for being to cute.... yet Pierce and Prukop do a cute play and aww shucks it didn't work out.   This was just a flat out terrible decision (mainly on Prukop) and had he ran 10 - 15 yards.   We more then likely talk about a 3 peat.   

**Edit*** I forgot to mention Brady running for 12 yards on the play before and the Toronto D looking tired on the field... running at that point of the game was the smart thing to do.  

Even a FG at that time changes everything. Makes it a two score game. Toronto has to approach it completely differently, it make the play clock the enemy for Toronto who then needs to drive the field in a much quicker manner with a green QB. I have no doubt in my mind that if that drive ends up in points we win the game.

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Cause collaros wasn't throwing at the wrong team all night.... did you even watch the game? 

So you want to take the ball out of his hands on a long ball and give it to your 3rd string QB, who has thrown a handful of passes all year, because ZC isn't sharp. I am no professional coach but there is absolutely no one on my team I want throwing that ball other than Collaros, and if Collaros can't for some reason, then I want Brown doing it.

24 minutes ago, Zach Schnitzer said:

Dude, I’m not saying Collaros was stellar. Would you not at least agree that Zach would be far more likely to make a better decision? Or you saying Prukop should’ve been MOP

Zach for sure would have made a better read, and a better throw. There is no doubt about that in my mind.

[GCn20]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Did he see tight coverage? Cause when the decision was made to actually throw the ball it probably looked like one on one coverage with a receiver who has made a career out of winning those battles.  I'm telling you the biggest **** up on that play was thr 2nd receiver.

The 2nd receiver was poor, unless this was a designed run/pass option and the receivers went in scramble mode when Prukop didn't run, but we don't know that so let's assume the 2nd receiver was a mistake. Even so, coverage was tight on Ellingson and the read should have taken him away from that throw, on that down, at that stage of the game. Prukop forced it, as a lot of 3rd stringers tend to do when the coach gives them the green light to throw.

Edited November 29, 2022 by GCn20

[17to85]

49 minutes ago, Zach Schnitzer said:

Dude, I’m not saying Collaros was stellar. Would you not at least agree that Zach would be far more likely to make a better decision? Or you saying Prukop should’ve been MOP

Based on that game collaros was just as likely to throw the int there too. He threw several passes right at defenders that were far worse reads than the one prukop made. Collaros was the MOP, but he was hot garbage in the Grey Cup.

[blue_gold_84]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Based on that game collaros was just as likely to throw the int there too. He threw several passes right at defenders that were far worse reads than the one prukop made. Collaros was the MOP, but he was hot garbage in the Grey Cup.

Except that was a set play using the backup. Had Collaros been in, that would've likely signaled a "safer" call and another rush attempt on first down, instead of some seemingly complicated trick play with a higher likelihood to go wrong - which it did.

Collaros had a rough game and I don't think anyone is disputing that. That doesn't mean one should make piddly excuses for Prukop, though.