The RIP 2023 Thread

[GCn20]

40 minutes ago, Noeller said:

it's a weird, almost racist flex....that the black singer, who is one of the most incredible voices of all time, would be nothing without the white songwriter. **** that... you can just as easily say that the songs would be nothing without her incredible talent. 

It's not racist imo. No different than saying Muddy Waters, Etta James, and Little Walter would be nothing without Willie Dixon. It's arguable for sure...is it the song or is it the performance or the magic of both together? You will find all kinds of varied opinion on it. However, if you are of the view that the song makes the musician than it is not racist to say Bacharach made Warwick. That's a huge leap to suggest that logic is racist. There are thousands of white musicians who made there bones singing songs written for them by black song writers. Elvis immediately comes to mind. To suggest that they were the driving force between there music would not be racist. It may not be correct...or it may be...but it is not racist. It is simply the age old debate of songwriter vs performer and that has nothing to do with race.

Edited February 9, 2023 by GCn20

[Noeller]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It's not racist imo. No different than saying Muddy Waters, Etta James, and Little Walter would be nothing without Willie Dixon. It's arguable for sure...is it the song or is it the performance or the magic of both together? You will find all kinds of varied opinion on it. However, if you are of the view that the song makes the musician than it is not racist to say Bacharach made Warwick. That's a huge leap to suggest that logic is racist. There are thousands of white musicians who made there bones singing songs written for them by black song writers. Elvis immediately comes to mind. To suggest that they were the driving force between there music would not be racist. It may not be correct...or it may be...but it is not racist. It is simply the age old debate of songwriter vs performer and that has nothing to do with race.

In his example, he's saying the black singer is nothing without the white writer...... you can't say that it has nothing to do with race. It's a very very bad example to use. 

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

In his example, he's saying the black singer is nothing without the white writer...... you can't say that it has nothing to do with race. It's a very very bad example to use. 

The topic was Warwick, and her songwriter was Bacharach. He didn't choose the parameters or pick a black artist with a white song writer out of a hat and there was absolutely no mention of race in his comment? The comment was solely about Bacharach being Warwick's songwriter. Race only enters into that if you are trying very hard to make it about that as the person reading the post.

[Wideleft]

My take (because I know you all want to hear it).

There isn't a Bacharach song that I like and I die a little every time I hear "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head".  Although I love Dionne Warwick's voice, those hits are best fit for a small cheesy lounge full of men in orange-checkered suits with too-large sideburns.

Also, good singer-songwriters are a full level above everyone else in the musical world.  Some 10 levels above.

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, Noeller said:

In his example, he's saying the black singer is nothing without the white writer...... you can't say that it has nothing to do with race. It's a very very bad example to use. 

And if she was white it would be the same so no it's not a bad example. I wasn't even thinking about the colour of her skin when I posted what I said. She isn't a black singer or a white singer to me. She's a singer! All I'm saying is that without Bacharach, Warwick wouldn't have had the same success. Look at that list of songs & tell me otherwise. The 2 met & they clicked. The rest is history. What if she had laryngitis on the day of her audition?? Maybe another female singer would have been chosen. It was meant to be.

5 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

My take (because I know you all want to hear it).

There isn't a Bacharach song that I like and I die a little every time I hear "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head".  Although I love Dionne Warwick's voice, those hits are best fit for a small cheesy lounge full of men in orange-checkered suits with too-large sideburns.

Also, good singer-songwriters are a full level above everyone else in the musical world.  Some 10 levels above.

Well bully for you. Thanks for stopping by. 

[blue_gold_84]

5 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Well bully for you. Thanks for stopping by. 

Did someone take a dump on your oatmeal this morning?

[Mark F]

 

he sure had a great life. 

with Hal David one of the best pop tune writers since the fifties.

quite a few of his tunes are musically tricky, with bars , or beats, left out or added, non standard pop tempo changes, interesting and non standard chord progressions, and somewhat difficult to sing melodies.

all cleverly presented as easy to listen to pop music. 

bit like the beatles in that way.

in later years a lefty, often on Democracy Now as a guest.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Mark F

[SpeedFlex27]

17 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The topic was Warwick, and her songwriter was Bacharach. He didn't choose the parameters or pick a black artist with a white song writer out of a hat and there was absolutely no mention of race in his comment? The comment was solely about Bacharach being Warwick's songwriter. Race only enters into that if you are trying very hard to make it about that as the person reading the post.

Exactly. I wasn't thinking about skin colour or racism when I posted my thoughts. No idea why we're even talking about it. I've liked Dionne Warwick since I was a kid in elementary school. 

17 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Did someone take a dump on your oatmeal this morning?

Being called a racist has a way of doing that.

 

[blue_gold_84]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Being called a racist has a way of doing that.

You seem pretty ornery in general, though.

Also, @Wideleft never called you a racist. He didn't even engage with you.

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

You seem pretty ornery in general, though.

Also, @Wideleft never called you a racist. He didn't even engage with you.

Damned right, I'm ornery. You'd be as well if someone intimated that what you said was racist when it never was meant to be. Go above & find my original comment about Bacharach with the 2 videos & the subsequent comments. As far as @Wideleft goes, I was out of line & I apologize.

Great oogly moogly. 

 

 

 

[Wideleft]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Damned right, I'm ornery. You'd be as well if someone intimated that what you said was racist when it never was meant to be. Go above & find my original comment about Bacharach with the 2 videos & the subsequent comments. As far as @Wideleft goes, I was out of line & I apologize.

Great oogly moogly. 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

 

Sorry, man. 

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Anyone who only knows him from Austin Powers is missing a lot. He was a giant in the songwriting business for 3 decades. Many songs you know as someone else’s were actually written by him. Here is a good obit that breaks down just how much he added to the music industry in his time. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/09/entertainment/burt-bacharach-death/index.html

Bacharach wrote hundreds of songs and made millions from publishing rights and sheet music sales, his collaboration with Dionne Warwick was just one chapter of his successful music career.

[Wideleft]

19 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Sorry, man. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

There isn't a Bacharach song that I like and I die a little every time I hear "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head". 

If you're against that song then you're against the movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. 

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

If you're against that song then you're against the movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. 

I literally fast forward through that part(s?).  I hate that song sooooo much.

[SpeedFlex27]

I also lost two close friends this week. One here in Calgary today & the other in Winnipeg. One to Alzheimers & the other to Diabetes/Pneumonia. It has been a terrible couple of days. I came here to be distracted & was wrongfully accused of a racist comment which sure hasn't helped my state of mind. The other sad thing is I can't go to both funerals which bothers me a lot. I have to decide & only go to one. Sad times. Getting old ******* sucks. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[TrueBlue4ever]

Really sorry to hear of your losses. Deepest condolences. If you need anything, do not hesitate to reach out. 

[GCJenks]

I can’t believe I am bout defend Al but I don’t think he intended to be racist in that statement. He was correct in his assertion of where the most money is in the music industry. Just listened to a great podcast that lays it out pretty simply, writing and copyright is where the money is, not performance. 
 

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/my-sharona/

[Brandon]

Can someone clean this thread up and move the Noeller looking for racism outrage posts into it's own thread.    

[SpeedFlex27]

48 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Can someone clean this thread up and move the Noeller looking for racism outrage posts into it's own thread.    

Why? It's a debate. Let it continue until it's finished.

[SpeedFlex27]

8 hours ago, Noeller said:

In his example, he's saying the black singer is nothing without the white writer...... you can't say that it has nothing to do with race. It's a very very bad example to use. 

That is a huge stretch considering I never used the skin colours of white & black in any sentence. I never said "black singer". I never said "white songwriter". I just said Bacharach made Warwick & he did. She didn't write the songs. Without the songs there are no hits. No one gets rich. No one is famous. No one can hear the music. Warwick can definitely sing but without Bacharach she has no songs to sing. There's no racism in my statement & if anybody thinks that what I said is racist then respectfully you're wrong. 

The point of view of Noeller is hypocritical. If I was to say that Andy Reid made Patrick Mahomes in KC or Donovan McNab in Philly the qbs they became when Reid coached them both then somehow that is a racist statement. But if I said that Mahomes & McNab made Reid the coach that he is today then somehow that's not racist which makes absolutely no sense. 

As for Bacharach, you can't even say Warwick made him because he continued to write & have hits with other artists & did film scores after her. She certainly helped make him as a songwriter but only in a small part. Bacharach's contribution to Warwick's career were much larger than hers to his. That has nothing to do with skin colour or race. He was just a talented & phenomenal songwriter.

[SpeedFlex27]

10 hours ago, Noeller said:

it's either racist or you don't think the singer's contribution is important. Either way...it's really strange. 

OMG, again I didn't say that. Quit twisting things that aren't there. Where did I say:

1) She's a black singer?

2. He's a white songwriter?

3. That her contribution as a singer isn't important?

4. That "whitey" songwriter is trying to keep a black woman singer down?

You can say that you disagree about Bacharach & Warwick not collaborating & I'd probably agree that perhaps you're right. You can say that you think that Warwick contributed equally to the success of Bacharach & that they both helped each other & I'd probably agree that you're right . This racist stuff is unfair. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[Wideleft]

18 hours ago, Wideleft said:

My take (because I know you all want to hear it).

There isn't a Bacharach song that I like and I die a little every time I hear "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head".  Although I love Dionne Warwick's voice, those hits are best fit for a small cheesy lounge full of men in orange-checkered suits with too-large sideburns.

Also, good singer-songwriters are a full level above everyone else in the musical world.  Some 10 levels above.

I have to admit that I was wrong on this.  Forgot about this gem, but then again the Stranglers destroyed the "easy-listening" treatment of it.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2023-02-10 at 7:58 AM, Wideleft said:

I have to admit that I was wrong on this.  Forgot about this gem, but then again the Stranglers destroyed the "easy-listening" treatment of it.

 

There's no greater tribute to a songwriter or musician when a song they wrote or performed is re-recorded by the next generation or generations of musicians or bands coming up after them. Like the Stanglers shown here.

Thing is, you may say you hated all of Bacharach's songs but these guys wouldn't have recorded it if they already didn't know & liked that song. Thery probably grew up listening to that & other Bacharach songs on the radio. Or maybe their parents had records they listened to as kids.

The arrangement was punk but the core of the song's still is the same. They payed hommage to it. They didn't destroy Walk On By because they probably liked the original tune. I think that they did a really good job here. Well done. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by SpeedFlex27