Manitoba Politics

[Bigblue204]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Great they are the government. Like I say, where did my alternative lack context? You felt the need to label that government, and I feel that is not necessary as ALL governments have put racist policy in place, or refused to remove racist policy. This current government happens to be PC, the NDP and the federal Liberals are just as bad when it comes to racist policy. I feel that is more important to point out than pretending it's a one party problem and it all goes away if we vote right and whether you like it or not, when you label racism to one party, you are giving other parties a free pass by default.

You keep assuming. Why limit this to just racism them. Every party has "______ issue". No stories should be written about specific incidents because then you're giving the other parties a pass on their "______ issue". 

Canada is a colony, but I didn't see you bring up England or even the United states on their racist policies...stop giving those governments a pass.

You know, it's ok to say. "The PCs shouldn't have done that". Which I still don't think you've said. Why are you defending their racism?

Edited May 30, 2023 by Bigblue204

[HardCoreBlue]

12 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I didn't say anything. Someone posted a story about the PCs. Why would they also bring up everything else? 

No one was asking anyone to give the other parties a free pass. The story was only about 1 party though.

For example it would be weird of someone posted a story about how the Bombers have some really great players on their team. And you replied saying...."You think only the bombers have great players? If you're going to talk about great players, you better mention that every team has great players!"....the story being discussed, was about the bombers. It's not about other teams.

I did say, "ALMOST, defending". Because that's how it comes off. 

You gone fully off the tracks today. Yes every party/organization/school/etc etc etc has racist individuals. No one is arguing otherwise. But it's weird for you to expect people to acknowledge that, anytime a specific incident is brought up.

This discussion going on is a perfect example of the environment we currently find ourselves in.

Triggering exhaustion, frustration, anger in others then pull out the victim card as an ending strategy.

Rinse, repeat. 

 

 

[HardCoreBlue]

9 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

You keep assuming. Why limit this to just racism them. Every party has "______ issue". No stories should be written about specific incidents because then you're giving the other parties a pass on their "______ issue". 

Canada is a colony, but I didn't see you bring up England or even the United states on their racist policies...stop giving those governments a pass.

You know, it's ok to say. "The PCs shouldn't have done that". Which I still don't think you've said. Why are you defending their racism?

He's not. He's doing this for fun. He gets a rise out of this. I see it everywhere.

Reality is broken.

[Bigblue204]

25 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

 

Tbh, I was not all that offended by JTs brown face. I think that was just a stupid mistake of a costume with no real inherent racism intended.

That's fair, but other posters have brought it up as proof that JT is racist. And yet, you didn't jump in them about all the other parties having racist issues....

2 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

He's not. He's doing this for fun. He gets a rise out of this. I see it everywhere.

Reality is broken.

I know. But I think there's obviously some "home team can do no wrong" type of stuff going on with them too. I still haven't seen them say they condemn what that PC member (should be noted that all political parties the world over have aspects of racism in them) did.

[WildPath]

If you're talking about the story I posted, Goertzen did apologize for the appointment.

Regarding racism in the currently political parties in Manitoba, I'd be suspect, but I doubt the NDP or Libs would have something like that slip through. There's no way either Wab or Dougald would defend residential schools and colonialism(Here's a look at Brian Pallister's full comments on Canada Day statue toppling — and what he's said since | CBC News). Even his own Indigenous relations minister resigned because of that. There's also no way that either of the other parties would appoint a minister in the same role that would defend residential school on the day of his appointment (New Manitoba Indigenous minister says residential school system believed 'they were doing the right thing' | CBC News).

There is racism inherent in the history of Canada and in every political party, but it is much more prevalent in one particular party. For all those incidents to come up in just the last few years, and at the highest levels of the PCs says something about the party regardless of the "yeah, but..."

 

[Wideleft]

GCN20 this morning:

[GCn20]

11 minutes ago, WildPath said:

If you're talking about the story I posted, Goertzen did apologize for the appointment.

Regarding racism in the currently political parties in Manitoba, I'd be suspect, but I doubt the NDP or Libs would have something like that slip through. There's no way either Wab or Dougald would defend residential schools and colonialism(Here's a look at Brian Pallister's full comments on Canada Day statue toppling — and what he's said since | CBC News). Even his own Indigenous relations minister resigned because of that. There's also no way that either of the other parties would appoint a minister in the same role that would defend residential school on the day of his appointment (New Manitoba Indigenous minister says residential school system believed 'they were doing the right thing' | CBC News).

There is racism inherent in the history of Canada and in every political party, but it is much more prevalent in one particular party. For all those incidents to come up in just the last few years, and at the highest levels of the PCs says something about the party regardless of the "yeah, but..."

 

You are probably right in today's Manitoba politics. Like I say this ebbs and flows. Howard Pawley, Gary Doer, and to a lesser extent Greg Selinger had incredibly racist members of their caucuses and that should not be overlooked. Racism is not something new, and it shouldn't be confined when speaking about natives to the "past few years". It cheapens the depth of the conversation needed. Also, federally the Liberals are by far the worst offenders on native racism in the history of Canada and currently despite all the virtue signalling continue to oppose natives in court, and have an endless stream of broken promises and have outright misleaded native leadership at every turn while continuing to enforce the Indian Act and refuse to entertain any notion of modernization of the Act or the outright repealing of it.

3 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

GCN20 this morning:

You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I am a Trump supporter. That man is loony and needs to go. I am NOT in favor of the far right, and am repelled by it. I just happen to think the far left is also very problematic. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by GCn20

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

You keep assuming. Why limit this to just racism them. Every party has "______ issue". No stories should be written about specific incidents because then you're giving the other parties a pass on their "______ issue". 

Canada is a colony, but I didn't see you bring up England or even the United states on their racist policies...stop giving those governments a pass.

You know, it's ok to say. "The PCs shouldn't have done that". Which I still don't think you've said. Why are you defending their racism?

I don't give a fig about England or the US. That is not my country. I am not giving anyone a free pass, I just see no need to bring them up in a discussion about Manitoba/Canada politics. You are seriously reaching almost to the point of being nonsensical. As for defending racism where in blue blazes did you get that idea from? Show me once in any of my posts where I have defended racism. That is purely YOU attacking me as a poster with completely unfounded and ludicrous accusations. Just beyond the pale of warped logic.

[Mark H.]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I am NOT in favor of the far right, and am repelled by it. I just happen to think the far left is also very problematic. 

There is really no discernable difference between the two.  If I may do a Gumpism.  "Extremism is an extremism does."

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

This discussion going on is a perfect example of the environment we currently find ourselves in.

Triggering exhaustion, frustration, anger in others then pull out the victim card as an ending strategy.

Rinse, repeat. 

 

 

How about debating the content of my post for once instead of just hurling accusations at the poster. It's not a particularly compelling counter to anything I've said when you just make up accusations about me but say nothing on the actual meat of the debate. It makes you look bad not me.

Just now, Mark H. said:

There is really no discernable difference between the two.  If I may do a Gumpism.  "Extremism is an extremism does."

For sure. Saddens me that these wingnuts seem to be increasingly gaining footholds into the mainstream.

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

He's not. He's doing this for fun. He gets a rise out of this. I see it everywhere.

Reality is broken.

Some of these political conversations are just for fun for me, however, talking about systemic racism and impediments to recognizing it is not fun for me.  By not recognizing that racism towards natives is systemic and does not follow party lines sets back any hope for my people. I will rail against that at all times.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

You keep assuming. Why limit this to just racism them. Every party has "______ issue". No stories should be written about specific incidents because then you're giving the other parties a pass on their "______ issue". 

Canada is a colony, but I didn't see you bring up England or even the United states on their racist policies...stop giving those governments a pass.

You know, it's ok to say. "The PCs shouldn't have done that". Which I still don't think you've said. Why are you defending their racism?

I don't think the GOVERNMENT should have done that. The government happens to be PC. There you happy. I will not pigeon hole racism to one party. PERIOD. It removes the massive specter of systemic racism by doing that, and I'm sorry that you are unable to understand that.

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

That's fair, but other posters have brought it up as proof that JT is racist. And yet, you didn't jump in them about all the other parties having racist issues....

I know. But I think there's obviously some "home team can do no wrong" type of stuff going on with them too. I still haven't seen them say they condemn what that PC member (should be noted that all political parties the world over have aspects of racism in them) did.

I have no doubt that when forming GOVERNMENT that the PCs have acted in a racist manner towards natives on many files, and in many policies, and with many slips of the tongue. I also have no doubt that any GOVERNMENT in Canada past and present has done the same because the issue goes beyond party lines and is systemic.

Also, I don't remember even being active in this thread when Trudeaus' blackface occurred and if I had I would have dismissed the whole conversation as being silly and a media creation that again cheapens real racist acts. Trudeau's blackface was not racist, it was just an error in judgement imo. There....you have me defending Trudeau now....for cripes sakes.

Edited May 30, 2023 by GCn20

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I have a feeling he will be the leader of the provincial Liberals in time.

If the liberals were smart they would of cleaned house and had him on top and bring in normal rational people and they could of really gain a lot of popularity with many different parts of the province and the city.    Unfortunately with Lamont he has terrible ideas and most people don't have any respect or think highly of him.    It's a shame because the next election they could of possibly even won with someone competent in charge.   

 

[bigg jay]

12 minutes ago, Brandon said:

If the liberals were smart they would of cleaned house and had him on top and bring in normal rational people and they could of really gain a lot of popularity with many different parts of the province and the city.    Unfortunately with Lamont he has terrible ideas and most people don't have any respect or think highly of him.    It's a shame because the next election they could of possibly even won with someone competent in charge.   

 

I don't believe most rational people would ever want to get into politics.  

We are stuck with sh***y candidates (in all parties) for a reason.

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

GCN20 this morning:

THIS!! There are not always two sides to an incident. I suggest that the "well, you have to bear in mind" reaction to a problematic event is actually worse than outright support of the offender. If the miscreants are overt and displayed as such, they generate disgust. When you have someone on a news service or public forum stating there are two sides to racism, corruption, violence and the like, it gives validation to the offender(s) and contributes to excrement like Trump.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

How about debating the content of my post for once instead of just hurling accusations at the poster. It's not a particularly compelling counter to anything I've said when you just make up accusations about me but say nothing on the actual meat of the debate. It makes you look bad not me.

For sure. Saddens me that these wingnuts seem to be increasingly gaining footholds into the mainstream.

Some of these political conversations are just for fun for me, however, talking about systemic racism and impediments to recognizing it is not fun for me.  By not recognizing that racism towards natives is systemic and does not follow party lines sets back any hope for my people. I will rail against that at all times.

Right on cue with the victim strategy.

I really don't enjoy your style of engagement and how you respond to requests to back up your opinions and I'm sure you feel the same with me.

 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

GCN20 this morning:

This is exactly the example I was thinking of today... lol

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I am a Trump supporter. 

No one thinks you are a trump supporter. that "very fine people on both sides" post was for an entirely different reason.

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I don't give a fig about England or the US. That is not my country. I am not giving anyone a free pass, I just see no need to bring them up in a discussion about Manitoba/Canada politics. You are seriously reaching almost to the point of being nonsensical. As for defending racism where in blue blazes did you get that idea from? Show me once in any of my posts where I have defended racism. That is purely YOU attacking me as a poster with completely unfounded and ludicrous accusations. Just beyond the pale of warped logic.

so you're denying that the racist laws of colonial england hasn't impacted canada? You're fine with the GOP style racism creeping into canada? 

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I don't think the GOVERNMENT should have done that. The government happens to be PC. There you happy. I will not pigeon hole racism to one party. PERIOD. It removes the massive specter of systemic racism by doing that, and I'm sorry that you are unable to understand that.

I have no doubt that when forming GOVERNMENT that the PCs have acted in a racist manner towards natives on many files, and in many policies, and with many slips of the tongue. I also have no doubt that any GOVERNMENT in Canada past and present has done the same because the issue goes beyond party lines and is systemic.

Also, I don't remember even being active in this thread when Trudeaus' blackface occurred and if I had I would have dismissed the whole conversation as being silly and a media creation that again cheapens real racist acts. Trudeau's blackface was not racist, it was just an error in judgement imo. There....you have me defending Trudeau now....for cripes sakes.

 Why are you only defending Trudeau?

[GCn20]

40 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Right on cue with the victim strategy.

I really don't enjoy your style of engagement and how you respond to requests to back up your opinions and I'm sure you feel the same with me.

 

 

There is no victim strategy, that is simply you once again attacking me as a poster because you don't enjoy the content of my posts. It's accurate. Not once have you mentioned the content of my posts, disagreed with them or argued against them. You have simply told me what shortcomings you feel I have as the person posting the content. That type of engagement isn't particularly fruitful to any debate. If you don't agree with the content of my post feel free to discuss, if you want to discuss my motivations, or other personal attacks you are not really reinforcing anything other than your disdain for someone holding an opposing viewpoint. Which is fine, but let's not pretend that it makes you some angel and me some devil.

12 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

so you're denying that the racist laws of colonial england hasn't impacted canada? You're fine with the GOP style racism creeping into canada? 

 Why are you only defending Trudeau?

I am sickened by GOP and far left politics creeping their way into Canada. I have never denied colonial England's racism has impacted Canada however that was not the discussion was it? I am not sure why you are expecting that I should go off on tangents in a conversation about Canadian politics and then come up with a whopper like because I didn't mention England/France/Catholic church/Anglican church that I am denying their racism and the effect it had on my people. Geez Louise that's some convoluted logic right there.

Why am I only defending Trudeau? I am not sure how to even respond to that. I have no idea what you are getting at. I defended him because YOU cited it as an example. This is quite the game of silly bugger you are playing...well done. You almost had me....lol.

Edited May 30, 2023 by GCn20

[Sard]

20 hours ago, GCn20 said:

You are probably right in today's Manitoba politics. Like I say this ebbs and flows. Howard Pawley, Gary Doer, and to a lesser extent Greg Selinger had incredibly racist members of their caucuses and that should not be overlooked. Racism is not something new, and it shouldn't be confined when speaking about natives to the "past few years". It cheapens the depth of the conversation needed. Also, federally the Liberals are by far the worst offenders on native racism in the history of Canada and currently despite all the virtue signalling continue to oppose natives in court, and have an endless stream of broken promises and have outright misleaded native leadership at every turn while continuing to enforce the Indian Act and refuse to entertain any notion of modernization of the Act or the outright repealing of it.

You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I am a Trump supporter. That man is loony and needs to go. I am NOT in favor of the far right, and am repelled by it. I just happen to think the far left is also very problematic. 

Can you please define the far left?

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, Sard said:

Can you please define the far left?

anyone who doesn't loathe "Trudope" is far left antifa...

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Sard said:

Can you please define the far left?

I'll take a crack at it.

Some examples of 'extreme/radical far left':

Disrupting oil and gas thru protest and/or violence.

PETA

Green Peace

Any protests and/or violence when it comes to gender sexuality freedoms for people, movements like BLM, All Lives Matter, Pro Choice etc etc.  

I'm sure there are other examples, these just off the top of my head.

Even suggesting people like Trump and his enablers are dangerous can also lead to being tagged as a radical lefty. Weird.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Sard said:

Can you please define the far left?

Sure. My definition of the far left is anything to the left of social democracy. The radical or extreme parts of the far left I would define as any extremist, militant, or insurgent groups or individuals that attempt to realize the ideals of the left through political violence as opposed to using the democratic process. 

4 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I'll take a crack at it.

Some examples of 'extreme/radical far left':

Disrupting oil and gas thru protest and/or violence.

PETA

Green Peace

Any protests and/or violence when it comes to gender sexuality freedoms for people, movements like BLM, All Lives Matter, Pro Choice etc etc.  

I'm sure there are other examples, these just off the top of my head.

Even suggesting people like Trump and his enablers are dangerous can also lead to being tagged as a radical lefty. Weird.

I agree with your definition. I don't even mind protests so much as long as they are peaceful. I see nothing wrong with oil pipeline protests, or abortion rights rallies etc. When these become violent, or criminal, then they cross the threshold for me. I don't believe calling Trump for what he is to be radical, or far left, just as I don't believe calling out Trudeau for being crap is a function of the far right.

20 minutes ago, Noeller said:

anyone who doesn't loathe "Trudope" is far left antifa...

Nice hyperbole.

Edited May 31, 2023 by GCn20

[HardCoreBlue]

27 minutes ago, Noeller said:

anyone who doesn't loathe "Trudope" is far left antifa...

There is actually a grain of truth in this for how some non-critically thinking people view others. It's weird.

[GCn20]

24 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

There is actually a grain of truth in this for how some non-critically thinking people view others. It's weird.

This works on both sides of the spectrum. Just in the last few pages of the thread with Alberta election discussion I have seen a few comments suggesting that anyone who supported the UCP in Alberta is some far right loony. That characterization is about as accurate as the one Noeller is mocking. The UCP won with a great deal of support from the centre and moderate right. It is ridiculous to point all supporters of a governing party able to win an election as extreme. Just nonsense.

Edited May 31, 2023 by GCn20

[Wideleft]

40 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

This works on both sides of the spectrum. Just in the last few pages of the thread with Alberta election discussion I have seen a few comments suggesting that anyone who supported the UCP in Alberta is some far right loony. That characterization is about as accurate as the one Noeller is mocking. The UCP won with a great deal of support from the centre and moderate right. It is ridiculous to point all supporters of a governing party able to win an election as extreme. Just nonsense.

Literally half the UCP board is made up of Christo-fascists.  Even Kenney said the lunatics were now running the asylum in the UCP.

Calling them far right lunatics is more than fair.