Manitoba Politics

[Brandon]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

Intolerance and ignorance are disgusting.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/substance-use/supervised-consumption-sites/explained.html

Don't be disgusting.

Need I provide videos of areas with supervised consumption sites,  it's really sad.    Seriously look into the actual results and you'll see it's absolutely sad.     

I don't understand why they don't create an island or remote area where this can be all done away from the public.  The safety of the people should be top priority and wouldn't it make sense if they could contain it so that innocent people wouldn't be present when these folks are tripping out.  

[Wideleft]

32 minutes ago, Brandon said:

They are drugged out zombies ,   I recommend driving over the Disraeli overpass and you'll see them all through out the day just wandering onto the road without any sense of awareness of what is going on.     It's night of the living dead and it's sad and at times scary. 

They are human beings.  Period.

[rebusrankin]

28 minutes ago, Brandon said:

They are drugged out zombies ,   I recommend driving over the Disraeli overpass and you'll see them all through out the day just wandering onto the road without any sense of awareness of what is going on.     It's night of the living dead and it's sad and at times scary. 

So every person suffering from addiction or using drugs is a drugged out zombie?

A user commented on the police buying new BMW motorcycles on his facebook group (a legitimate question) and he proceeded to defend the police and police spending (his right) because in his words, there are a lot of drug users who are out there like drugged out zombies. Explain why you think his words are ok. Now if he had said something like we need more policing dues to issues arising from substance abuse problems, all right but his words were poorly chosen and seem to indicate an individual who doesn't care much about others, especially those who are on the margins of society. (See his comments about the police rousting homeless people from bus shelters for another example).

[blue_gold_84]

6 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

They are human beings.  Period.

Case in point: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-shelter-women-1.6859528

Quote

A Manitoba father says the lack of resources and emergency shelter space specifically for women in Winnipeg is leaving people like his daughter at risk everyday — and he fears she will soon end up dead. 

The man, who CBC News is not naming to protect his daughter's identity, said his daughter is homeless and addicted to meth and that he and his ex-wife have been unable to get their daughter the help she needs for the past seven years. 

He said she often sleeps under bridges or in encampments and walks the streets because she doesn't feel safe using Winnipeg's shelter system.

While most mid-to-large Canadian cities have at least one emergency shelter just for women, Winnipeg does not.

There are places that are specifically for women who have been trafficked or are leaving abusive relationships but there is no emergency overnight shelter just for females. 

All of the overnight shelters are co-ed.

There were 418 people or 35.4 per cent of respondents in the Winnipeg Street Census 2022 who identified as being female.

 

[Brandon]

6 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

So every person suffering from addiction or using drugs is a drugged out zombie?

A user commented on the police buying new BMW motorcycles on his facebook group (a legitimate question) and he proceeded to defend the police and police spending (his right) because in his words, there are a lot of drug users who are out there like drugged out zombies. Explain why you think his words are ok. Now if he had said something like we need more policing dues to issues arising from substance abuse problems, all right but his words were poorly chosen and seem to indicate an individual who doesn't care much about others, especially those who are on the margins of society. (See his comments about the police rousting homeless people from bus shelters for another example).

Browaty is only saying what the vast majority of the people in Winnipeg think.      It may not be nice but it's the truth.  The truth hurts.       If you don't believe me then go around town and observe the interactions with the drugged up/boozed up people with the average citizen and count how many times these folks use kind words with them in comparison to the folks who run away,  yell in self defense,  look in fear/disgust,   cross a street in advance of approaching them,   walk away fast etc....      

Randomnly talk to folks and ask them how they feel when they see a bus shelter taking over with garbage, needles,  etc... while a senior citizen has to wait in the cold/rain outside because it's unsafe for them to enter the bus shelter.     

 

 

[Wideleft]

16 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Browaty is only saying what the vast majority of the people in Winnipeg think.      It may not be nice but it's the truth.  The truth hurts.       If you don't believe me then go around town and observe the interactions with the drugged up/boozed up people with the average citizen and count how many times these folks use kind words with them in comparison to the folks who run away,  yell in self defense,  look in fear/disgust,   cross a street in advance of approaching them,   walk away fast etc....      

Randomnly talk to folks and ask them how they feel when they see a bus shelter taking over with garbage, needles,  etc... while a senior citizen has to wait in the cold/rain outside because it's unsafe for them to enter the bus shelter.     

So slavery should have continued in the South because the "vast majority of people" thought it was good.

It's easy to govern ignorantly for the ignorant, but the arguments don't hold up when challenged with research, facts and human rights.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Wideleft said:

So slavery should have continued in the South because the "vast majority of people" thought it was good.

It's easy to govern ignorantly for the ignorant, but the arguments don't hold up when challenged with research, facts and human rights.

Lol slavery?   Come on now really trying to reach to make a point.    When you have a valid argument please let me know,  until then you know I am correct in that the vast majority of people think the same thing as what he said.     As I said before the truth hurts and being afraid about talking about the truth doesn't do anything to help the situation.   It's called tough love and sometimes it's required.  Coddling and being an overly sentimental and skirting the issue and trying to be overly sensitive does nothing.     Just because people use real words it doesn't mean they don't want the situation to get better or for these people to clean up.   

Also I'd love to hear the research and facts of having an area with a higher amount of extreme drug users in how this creates a safer environment and a place that prospers and thrives.    I'd love to see this research!     

I await your reponse and try not to use a Hitler reference or something so extremely ridiculous.    

 

[MOBomberFan]

3 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I await your reponse and try not to use a Hitler reference or something so extremely ridiculous.    

 

Round them up and send them to camps, sorry I couldn't help myself

[rebusrankin]

6 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Lol slavery?   Come on now really trying to reach to make a point.    When you have a valid argument please let me know,  until then you know I am correct in that the vast majority of people think the same thing as what he said.     As I said before the truth hurts and being afraid about talking about the truth doesn't do anything to help the situation.   It's called tough love and sometimes it's required.  Coddling and being an overly sentimental and skirting the issue and trying to be overly sensitive does nothing.     Just because people use real words it doesn't mean they don't want the situation to get better or for these people to clean up.   

Also I'd love to hear the research and facts of having an area with a higher amount of extreme drug users in how this creates a safer environment and a place that prospers and thrives.    I'd love to see this research!     

I await your reponse and try not to use a Hitler reference or something so extremely ridiculous.    

 

Actually a majority of Canadians support safe injection sites, although many don't support them in their immediate neighbourhood.

https://www.pollara.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Pollara-Safe-Injection-Sites-January-2023.pdf

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

48 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Lol slavery?   Come on now really trying to reach to make a point.    When you have a valid argument please let me know,  until then you know I am correct in that the vast majority of people think the same thing as what he said. 

The point he is making is a valid one- at one time the majority of people in the south thought that slavery was acceptable- it's not. Just because a majority of people think one thing, doesn't make it right or even true.  That was his point. That was his argument. 

 

52 minutes ago, Brandon said:

 As I said before the truth hurts and being afraid about talking about the truth doesn't do anything to help the situation.   It's called tough love and sometimes it's required.  Coddling and being an overly sentimental and skirting the issue and trying to be overly sensitive does nothing.     Just because people use real words it doesn't mean they don't want the situation to get better or for these people to clean up. 

You talk of love and you balk at the idea that the language being used is dehumanizing... That is the major issue here, using a moral foundation approach seems the best way to deal with this crisis.  take some time and check out this article, it really outlines a really effective approach to this crisis.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/understanding-morals-is-key-to-accepting-safe-injection-sites/#:~:text=Internationally%2C safe injection sites have,public drug injection or nuisance.

[Brandon]

59 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

The point he is making is a valid one- at one time the majority of people in the south thought that slavery was acceptable- it's not. Just because a majority of people think one thing, doesn't make it right or even true.  That was his point. That was his argument. 

His point of using an argument from 100 years ago is an extreme reach because he can't find anything relevant and recent to use as an example.  Everyone is entitled to an opinon,  but the problem that some folks on here is that they think that only their opinion matters and that everyone must share that same opinion.    Browaty has an opinion,   most people agree with him and just because some folks are extremely sensitive they think he's some awful guy and that anyone who supports him is lower then them.   Browaty is telling what the majority of people are thinking/saying.   I find it comical in the political threads on here that people complain that all politicians at varying levels are fake and play the political game and spew b.s. political games stuff.  Finally we have a person who speaks it like it is and apparently it's taboo.    

This city is having a steep decline in safety outside of the downtown/core area over the last several years and people are tired of it.  It goes back to where I am correct in saying that the average person does not want to physically see/deal with "drugged out zombies"  and that a safe injection site may be a good idea but 100% NIMBY.  

Winnipeg will (or maybe currently is) gradually turning into a typical American city where the working folks keep moving further and further away in the 'Burbs so that they can have a nice safe life and the interior of the city spreading out will continue to rot away.  It's super sad but as a parent I most definitely want my children being able to go to a mall without being accosted or taking a bus and getting jumped or stabbed by a druggie with a needle.  

Edited June 2, 2023 by Brandon

[Wideleft]

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

His point of using an argument from 100 years ago is an extreme reach because he can't find anything relevant and recent to use as an example.  Everyone is entitled to an opinon,  but the problem that some folks on here is that they think that only their opinion matters and that everyone must share that same opinion.    Browaty has an opinion,   most people agree with him and just because some folks are extremely sensitive they think he's some awful guy and that anyone who supports him is lower then them.   Browaty is telling what the majority of people are thinking/saying.   I find it comical in the political threads on here that people complain that all politicians at varying levels are fake and play the political game and spew b.s. political games stuff.  Finally we have a person who speaks it like it is and apparently it's taboo.    

This city is having a steep decline in safety outside of the downtown/core area over the last several years and people are tired of it.  It goes back to where I am correct in saying that the average person does not want to physically see/deal with "drugged out zombies"  and that a safe injection site may be a good idea but 100% NIMBY.  

Winnipeg will (or maybe currently is) gradually turning into a typical American city where the working folks keep moving further and further away in the 'Burbs so that they can have a nice safe life and the interior of the city spreading out will continue to rot away.  It's super sad but as a parent I most definitely want my children being able to go to a mall without being accosted or taking a bus and getting jumped or stabbed by a druggie with a needle.  

 

You didn't read either of the links, did you?

 

 

2 hours ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/understanding-morals-is-key-to-accepting-safe-injection-sites/#:~:text=Internationally%2C safe injection sites have,public drug injection or nuisance.

 

3 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

https://www.pollara.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Pollara-Safe-Injection-Sites-January-2023.pdf

 

 

You should- it might broaden your horizons. It might also strengthen your opinion or perhaps change it. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[blue_gold_84]

Being entitled to an opinion doesn't matter when it's backed by ignorance, fear, and apathy for other human beings. And such an opinion isn't worth entertaining.

Having an opinion should never come before being sufficiently informed. If your opinions aren't backed by factual data and evidence, then they aren't worth ****.

Intolerant opinions don't deserve to be tolerated.

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Being entitled to an opinion doesn't matter when it's backed by ignorance, fear, and apathy for other human beings. And such an opinion isn't worth entertaining.

Having an opinion should never come before being sufficiently informed. If your opinions aren't backed by factual data and evidence, then they aren't worth ****.

Intolerant opinions don't deserve to be tolerated.

Also, confusing groupthink with democracy (majority rules) is not compatible with critical thought.

[blue_gold_84]

6 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Also, confusing groupthink with democracy (majority rules) is not compatible with critical thought.

Couldn't agree more. Although, I have to imagine this **** could explain the current state of our democracy (and many others around the world).

Critical thinking is a dying skill.

[HardCoreBlue]

I come in hot on a discussion board with a lot of gaps and misunderstandings with my thinking presented as fact and suggest to people why don't they just look around and ask others because a vast majority of people are thinking what I'm thinking therefore it's the truth and it hurts. People push back with facts and complexities missed in my thinking and understandings, I deploy the victim strategy with mocking overtones.

Rinse, repeat. 

[Tracker]

14 hours ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

The point he is making is a valid one- at one time the majority of people in the south thought that slavery was acceptable- it's not. Just because a majority of people think one thing, doesn't make it right or even true.  That was his point. That was his argument. 

 

You talk of love and you balk at the idea that the language being used is dehumanizing... That is the major issue here, using a moral foundation approach seems the best way to deal with this crisis.  take some time and check out this article, it really outlines a really effective approach to this crisis.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/understanding-morals-is-key-to-accepting-safe-injection-sites/#:~:text=Internationally%2C safe injection sites have,public drug injection or nuisance.

And the experiences of Switzerland and Portugal support the efficacy of safe injection sites. These have been in place for over 20 years, and, when connected to treatment facilities, medical care and social services, move many users out of the vicious cycle of addiction. Studies have shown repeatedly that there is a significant reduction in demands on law enforcement, emergency medical care, crime and court loads. All this means there is a solid case based on cost savings alone.

[Goalie]

Drugged out Zombies? Honestly I think there's lots of lost causes downtown but not all are Drugged out zombies. Some probably can be helped but they also need to want help and there's certainly several I see daily who don't want help at all. Downtown winnipeg ain't much different than Edmonton or Toronto or Vancouver, we all have drugged out zombies who don't want help but we also got plenty of addicted individuals who probably do. The fact we only have 2 24/7 shelters is a problem as 1 is for youth and 1 is for women.  These folks living in bus shacks, reality? They have nowhere else to go. 

 

The solution is likely tiny housing. Not sure where.. Ideally away from the downtown core. I would certainly volunteer my time to help build. 

Some tho belong in the Selkirk mental hospital.  There's a dude at times on the 11 bus who gets on at the concert hall who certainly Is insane. Guys like him? Probably a  lost cause but from what i see daily, he's not the norm down there 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Goalie

[Sard]

24 minutes ago, Tracker said:

And the experiences of Switzerland and Portugal support the efficacy of safe injection sites. These have been in place for over 20 years, and, when connected to treatment facilities, medical care and social services, move many users out of the vicious cycle of addiction. Studies have shown repeatedly that there is a significant reduction in demands on law enforcement, emergency medical care, crime and court loads. All this means there is a solid case based on cost savings alone.

Agreed... the biggest problem I see for trying to implement it here is the connected treatment facilities, medical care and social services need to be in place for it to work.  All 3 of those are missing here right now and the government has to setup up and fix that at the same time.  Helping the people with addiction problems get out of that cycle would go a long way to improving our city.  It is likely quite a high expense in the short term, but the longer term savings in those other areas would be much higher.

[HardCoreBlue]

29 minutes ago, Tracker said:

And the experiences of Switzerland and Portugal support the efficacy of safe injection sites. These have been in place for over 20 years, and, when connected to treatment facilities, medical care and social services, move many users out of the vicious cycle of addiction. Studies have shown repeatedly that there is a significant reduction in demands on law enforcement, emergency medical care, crime and court loads. All this means there is a solid case based on cost savings alone.

A not well thought out approach to this complex issue: this is bullshit, it doesn't work, they should be forced into treatment or go to jail, why should my tax dollars go to brain-dead zombies, the results are in (to quote PP) here's a link from the National Post. The truth hurts.

Let's think this thru as best we can approach: We need to do something from an evidence informed point of view. Look at this holistically bringing many environmental resources and experts together. We need to do a thorough scan and learn from other countries in how they have approached this. We know we will have our own uniquenesses and nuances to deal with that aren't a perfect fit with other countries approaches. There are limitations and growing pains in this evidence informed approach , some fiscal challenges but it will continue to get us to a better spot (see bolded part). 

My intention is not to mock, I'm using actual words people use to highlight the different approaches in how complex serious issues are thought thru and how sometimes opinions are presented as facts.

 

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

A not well thought out approach to this complex issue: this is bullshit, it doesn't work, they should be forced into treatment or go to jail, why should my tax dollars go to brain-dead zombies, the results are in (to quote PP) here's a link from the National Post. The truth hurts.

Let's think this thru as best we can approach: We need to do something from an evidence informed point of view. Look at this holistically bringing many environmental resources and experts together. We need to do a thorough scan and learn from other countries in how they have approached this. We know we will have our own uniquenesses and nuances to deal with that aren't a perfect fit with other countries approaches. There are limitations and growing pains in this evidence informed approach , some fiscal challenges but it will continue to get us to a better spot (see bolded part). 

My intention is not to mock, I'm using actual words people use to highlight the different approaches in how complex serious issues are thought thru and how sometimes opinions are presented as facts.

 

The moralists throw out phrases like " the government is encouraging drug use" and where there are registered addict programs, "the government is using taxpayer money to hand out drugs". Apart from the moral objections, there are solid financial reasons to do this. A high percentage of ER visits and Mobile Crisis Units/police calls relate to substance abuse. Where THC simple possession was de-criminalized, police calls have gone down sharply. leaving them more available to respond to serious incidents.

[Wideleft]

3 hours ago, Goalie said:

Drugged out Zombies? Honestly I think there's lots of lost causes downtown but not all are Drugged out zombies. Some probably can be helped but they also need to want help and there's certainly several I see daily who don't want help at all. Downtown winnipeg ain't much different than Edmonton or Toronto or Vancouver, we all have drugged out zombies who don't want help but we also got plenty of addicted individuals who probably do. The fact we only have 2 24/7 shelters is a problem as 1 is for youth and 1 is for women.  These folks living in bus shacks, reality? They have nowhere else to go. 

It cannot be lost that the "wanting to be helped" is part of the process in regards to breaking addiction.  Hardly anyone is successful quitting anything cold turkey.  When you allow resources to build relationships with addicts, only then can the addict understand how to ask for and get help.

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, Tracker said:

The moralists throw out phrases like " the government is encouraging drug use" and where there are registered addict programs, "the government is using taxpayer money to hand out drugs". Apart from the moral objections, there are solid financial reasons to do this. A high percentage of ER visits and Mobile Crisis Units/police calls relate to substance abuse. Where THC simple possession was de-criminalized, police calls have gone down sharply. leaving them more available to respond to serious incidents.

Danielle Smith is about to implement a program in Alberta scooping addicts off the streets and depositing them in facilities owned and operated by "for profit enterprise".  Worked for Hitler, so why not.  It will be interesting to see the cost of this program and whether it significantly improves the addicts behaviour, or if it's just a cash cow that shovels $$ towards her cohorts and changes nothing.  

[Tracker]

I think that Ms. Smith and her coterie will see her majority win as a vindication of all her far-right statements and hinted policies. She impresses me as not all that smart, and once she seizes onto an issue or position, she will ride it right to the wall.

I think this has been mentioned here in this forum already, and if so, I apologize for repeating it. She has decided to form an advisory panel of failed UPC candidates to help her represent "all Albertans". I do not doubt that these will be well-paid. We ain't seen nuthin' yet.