Manitoba Politics

[JCon]

Just now, Mark H. said:

Wait a minute?  What happened to the left wing echo chamber?

😀

I lived through it. Sat in meetings that were 'bizarre' to say the least. 

 

 

[Wideleft]

47 minutes ago, JCon said:

The NDP were definitely out of ideas. It was a mess. 

However, the destruction the PCs have done to all systems is criminal. 

The question remains - is seemingly being out of ideas the same as a government in maintenance mode?  They couldn't really introduce new ideas without a tax increase or the Feds releasing much needed flood funding and/or increasing transfers.

If you compare the "messes", it really does beg the question I'm asking.

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

I wish I could remember which column I was reading earlier this week.  It suggested that we sometimes confuse stability in government with a government that is out of ideas.  It is true that the NDP were eating themselves after Selinger's terrible implementation of the PST increase.  Truth is, we needed that increase because Harper was withholding flood aid.

Pallister walked into a fantastic situation in which Trudeau not only released the flood money but also increased transfers which made "balancing" the budget ridiculously easy when he took a machete to every government department.  I would suggest that Pallister created far more instability in one term than the fourth term NDP.  The infighting within the party was their doom.

And history repeats.

The Sellinger NDP government imploded due to Sellinger's autocratic leadership style which caused all manner of internal conflict. There were viable candidates to replace him but he would not go, even when the majority of MLAs and NDP supporters wanted him to. Internal polling indicated that with a new leader, the NDP would have stood a chance to retain power, but Sellinger's ego would not allow that. It is said that governments are not defeated by the oppositions, but by internal collapse.

[blue_gold_84]

Selinger was in over his head from the moment he was sworn in as premier, IMO. He never came across as very astute despite his arrogance, and he lacked the temperament to cultivate cooperation within his party. The latter is a necessity for any leader, IMO.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Selinger was in over his head from the moment he was sworn in as premier, IMO. He never came across as very astute despite his arrogance, and he lacked the temperament to cultivate cooperation within his party. The latter is a necessity for any leader, IMO.

The thing is - he is a smart guy that could have explained why the PST increase was required at the time, but didn't.  He had a PHD from the London School of Economics and a Master of Public Administration from Queen's University.  He was probably one of the most qualified for the role in the province's history, but he really was not a good politician.  

And here we are with a government of good politicians who are unqualified for their roles.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

The NDP were definitely out of ideas. It was a mess. 

However, the destruction the PCs have done to all systems is criminal. 

No argument from me on that. Just pointing out that governments have shelf life.

22 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Selinger was in over his head from the moment he was sworn in as premier, IMO. He never came across as very astute despite his arrogance, and he lacked the temperament to cultivate cooperation within his party. The latter is a necessity for any leader, IMO.

Yea. his own caucus saw him as weak and that is not a good thing for a political leader.

[blue_gold_84]

11 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The thing is - he is a smart guy that could have explained why the PST increase was required at the time, but didn't.  He had a PHD from the London School of Economics and a Master of Public Administration from Queen's University.  He was probably one of the most qualified for the role in the province's history, but he really was not a good politician.  

This is purely speculative but I have to wonder if his political aspirations got in the way of his formal education and intellect related to being a public servant.

13 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

And here we are with a government of good politicians who are unqualified for their roles.

Seems like a problem at pretty much every level of government these days, IMO.

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Yea. his own caucus saw him as weak and that is not a good thing for a political leader.

He was not steadfast as leader of the NDP - at all. He flip-flopped often.

[JCon]

54 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The question remains - is seemingly being out of ideas the same as a government in maintenance mode?  They couldn't really introduce new ideas without a tax increase or the Feds releasing much needed flood funding and/or increasing transfers.

If you compare the "messes", it really does beg the question I'm asking.

So, my particular knowledge is limited to the departments I served. Both were primarily granting departments, meaning that they hand money out and someone else delivers the service or program to the public. There were elements delivered by the departments too but those were very few. 

When I say new ideas, I mean that they couldn't find solutions to problems. So, they would identify X as a problem but when they (they being the MLAs and their staffers) would suggest things that were not backed by science and/or experts or they would suggest things that didn't work in the past. A lot of throwing money at problems without a plan on how to deliver results. They wanted to do "good" and they meant well but they didn't know how to deliver that. 

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

This is purely speculative but I have to wonder if his political aspirations got in the way of his formal education and intellect related to being a public servant.

Seems like a problem at pretty much every level of government these days, IMO.

He was not steadfast as leader of the NDP - at all. He flip-flopped often.

IIRC, Selinger was a heavily recruited and somewhat reluctant politician who took a lot of coaxing to get into the political arena.

[Tracker]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

IIRC, Selinger was a heavily recruited and somewhat reluctant politician who took a lot of coaxing to get into the political arena.

The Peter Principle at work.

[GCn20]

12 minutes ago, JCon said:

So, my particular knowledge is limited to the departments I served. Both were primarily granting departments, meaning that they hand money out and someone else delivers the service or program to the public. There were elements delivered by the departments too but those were very few. 

When I say new ideas, I mean that they couldn't find solutions to problems. So, they would identify X as a problem but when they (they being the MLAs and their staffers) would suggest things that were not backed by science and/or experts or they would suggest things that didn't work in the past. A lot of throwing money at problems without a plan on how to deliver results. They wanted to do "good" and they meant well but they didn't know how to deliver that. 

Yea, my wife worked as an Assistant Deputy Minister at that time, and it was chaos. Every problem just had money thrown at it without any plan to actually resolve the problem. In her experience, 10 people would enter the room with 10 bad ideas and they would debate each of them and walk away without a single better idea. There was no interdepartmental cooperation at all....still isn't. so even if a great idea came to light if it involved interdepartmental cooperation it was essentially DOA. Doubt that has changed all that much either. My wife who is an expert in her field, finally left the civil service a few years ago out of frustration over the amount of time and resources that were wasted on the bureaucracy of public service. Combined with a pay scale that has fallen far behind the private sector, and the actual satisfaction of getting things done she now very happily and successfully has taken her skills to the private sector. All of the public sector is experiencing the same kind of brain drain for many of the same reasons.

Edited March 15, 2023 by GCn20

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, Wideleft said:

The question remains - is seemingly being out of ideas the same as a government in maintenance mode?  They couldn't really introduce new ideas without a tax increase or the Feds releasing much needed flood funding and/or increasing transfers.

If you compare the "messes", it really does beg the question I'm asking.

That's the thing, if there is no extra money coming in, I think a govt. should operate in "maintenance" mode, instead of making promises and spending money that doesn't yet exist.  Nothing wrong with boring stability.

[Mark H.]

8 hours ago, JCon said:

I lived through it. Sat in meetings that were 'bizarre' to say the least. 

Yes, I know of someone who quit their civil service job because of it

It's very interesting to see former NDP MLAs defend their group (especially Selinger) on social media

But, as you say, with Harper controlling the purse strings, they had limited $$ to work with 

[JCon]

33 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Yes, I know of someone who quit their civil service job because of it

It's very interesting to see former NDP MLAs defend their group (especially Selinger) on social media

But, as you say, with Harper controlling the purse strings, they had limited $$ to work with 

They were definitely constrained by resources; however, even with more, I don't think they would have known what to do with it. 

[Mark H.]

12 hours ago, JCon said:

They were definitely constrained by resources; however, even with more, I don't think they would have known what to do with it. 

I can't help finding that odd, considering that Selinger was Doer's finance minister.  They also had people like Bjornson and Ashton, who had been there long term. I guess if you're dysfunctional as a group, experience doesn't mean as much 

[HardCoreBlue]

40 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I can't help finding that odd, considering that Selinger was Doer's finance minister.  They also had people like Bjornson and Ashton, who had been there long term. I guess if you're dysfunctional as a group, experience doesn't mean as much 

Your last sentence sums it up nicely.

Edited March 16, 2023 by HardCoreBlue

[JCon]

2 hours ago, Mark H. said:

I can't help finding that odd, considering that Selinger was Doer's finance minister.  They also had people like Bjornson and Ashton, who had been there long term. I guess if you're dysfunctional as a group, experience doesn't mean as much 

But there was also an outside factor. It's true that some of the most talented and experienced MLAs left, like Oswald, after the challenge to Selinger's leadership. This caused them to lose a lot of very talented staffers too. Then, in May 2015, the Alberta NDP took a majority in that province and drained out most of the rest. 

By then, the writing was on the wall, so everyone left. 

Politicians are just the front facing part of the machine. You still need an effective staff in order to get things done and generate appropriate new ideas. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by JCon

[Wideleft]

17 minutes ago, JCon said:

But there was also an outside factor. It's true that some of the most talented and experienced MLAs left, like Oswald, after the challenge to Selinger's leadership. This caused them to lose a lot of very talented staffers too. Then, in May 2015, the Alberta NDP took a majority in that province and drained out most of the rest. 

By then, the writing was on the wall, so everyone left. 

Politicians are just the front facing part of the machine. You still need an effective staff in order to get things done and generate appropriate new ideas. 

And that's the rub.  Centre and left parties can't win unless they propose new ideas.  The right can win solely on promising to cut taxes which is neither a new idea nor good policy.

[Mark H.]

53 minutes ago, JCon said:

But there was also an outside factor. It's true that some of the most talented and experienced MLAs left, like Oswald, after the challenge to Selinger's leadership. This caused them to lose a lot of very talented staffers too. Then, in May 2015, the Alberta NDP took a majority in that province and drained out most of the rest. 

By then, the writing was on the wall, so everyone left. 

Politicians are just the front facing part of the machine. You still need an effective staff in order to get things done and generate appropriate new ideas. 

Ok, that makes sense, thanks. Because, under Doer, that was one of the best provincial governments we have had

Also, I am now taking some of the stuff my former MLA posts with a grain of salt, perhaps the whole shaker

 

[Mark H.]

12 hours ago, Wideleft said:

And that's the rub.  Centre and left parties can't win unless they propose new ideas.  The right can win solely on promising to cut taxes which is neither a new idea nor good policy.

Still recall Mulroney's response to Harper's GST cut. "Good politics but bad policy."

[Wideleft]

I've been employed in health (not front line) since long before health transformation began, but I did not realize that there was no increase in ER beds at the three remaining hospitals after the other three were closed.  There are actually fewer.  Unbelievable.

"HSC had 777 hospital beds in 2016-17, the year before consolidation. That fell to 762 during the first year of the hospital mergers. It increased slightly to 780 in 2021-22, according to Shared Health data. Capacity at HSC has remained largely unchanged, even though the facility is seeing more acutely ill patients.

In 2015-16, HSC had an average bed occupancy rate of 88.5 per cent. That jumped to 94.8 per cent in 2021-22. It now has less capacity to absorb spikes in patient volume.

St. Boniface had 493 staffed hospital beds in 2016-17. That number fell to 464 beds in 2021-22. Grace saw its bed count decline from 235 in 2016-17 to 227 in 2021-22. Patients are also piling up in those ERs.

 

Meanwhile, government continues to peddle the falsehood that almost 40 per cent of people who show up at ERs and urgent-care centres could have received treatment elsewhere, suggesting it’s causing ER overcrowding.

The 40 per cent figure is the portion of patients triaged as Level 4 or 5 patients, the least ill patients on the Canadian Triage and Acuity Scale. That doesn’t mean everyone triaged as a Level 4 or 5 could be treated at a doctor’s office or a walk-in clinic. Some have complex medical issues that may require a hospital stay. Government is spreading erroneous information to divert attention away from the poor management of its hospital-consolidation rollout.

Manitoba’s 2017 Wait Times Reduction Task Force, commissioned by the Tory government, confirmed that Level 4 and 5 patents are not the main cause of ER overcrowding.

“CTAS 4 and 5 level patients have been identified by media, politicians, many ED staff, and fellow ED patients as the ‘black sheep’ of emergency care,” the report says. “There is an enduring, persistent belief that they are the fundamental problem in (emergency department overcrowding). If they can be dealt with elsewhere, all will be well. That is a myth.”

 

The report, written by experts in the field, found the main cause of ER overcrowding is the growing length of time patients are spending in emergency departments — often on gurneys in hallways — waiting for a bed on a medical ward. That leads to poor outcomes.

“There is clear evidence that prolonged ED stays contribute to increased illness (morbidity) and death (mortality), as well as prolonged hospital stays as an admitted in-patient,” the report found.

That may not be something government officials are willing to acknowledge publicly. But it is in their own report."

Excerpted from today's Tom Brodbeck column.  https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/life/health/2023/03/16/creative-explanations-aside-task-force-clear-on-cause-of-er-crisis-more-than-five-years-ago

[rebusrankin]

The loss of beds is what stood out to me too.

[WildPath]

@Wideleft any opinion on the ads telling Manitobans where to go for which type of ailment they suffer (My Right Care)? I don't necessarily have any problem with them, but I've always thought they are likely an attempt to blame poor healthcare outcomes on citizens using the wrong system rather than budget cuts.

Edited March 18, 2023 by WildPath

[Wideleft]

On 2023-03-17 at 7:27 PM, WildPath said:

@Wideleft any opinion on the ads telling Manitobans where to go for which type of ailment they suffer (My Right Care)? I don't necessarily have any problem with them, but I've always thought they are likely an attempt to blame poor healthcare outcomes on citizens using the wrong system rather than budget cuts.

I can't say I even remember seeing those ads, but you're not alone in your thinking:

"The Manitoba Nurses Union is accusing the province of laying a guilt trip on the public for backed-up Winnipeg emergency rooms when government austerity is to blame.

Since last year, government ads saying close to 40 per cent of such patients could get the care they need sooner at a family doctor’s office or walk-in clinic have been running online.

This week, the nurses union is pointing to Canadian Institute for Health Information data that show there were many more low-acuity patients going to the ER in 2016-17 (48 per cent), while wait times were shorter.

Five years later, with fewer lower-acuity patients and a lower volume of visits, ER waits are worse — and the nurses blame Tory belt-tightening for it.

“I think it has a lot to do with the austerity agenda of this government,” said MNU president Darlene Jackson.

When the Progressive Conservatives took power in 2016, they embarked on a hospital consolidation plan to streamline services. The massive reform resulted in the closure of three of Winnipeg’s six emergency rooms.

When the COVID-19 pandemic hit in 2020, there was no fat left to trim and ERs and ICUs were overwhelmed, the MNU said.

Emergency rooms remain backed up with long waits, although Shared Health released data Thursday showing a drop in ER visits and waits in the month of December.

In 2016-2017, there were 329,910 Manitoba ER visits. In 2021-22, there were 273,384. In the first nine months of fiscal 2022-23, there were 193,352.

In April 2016, ER wait times were five hours; in October 2022, waits were nearly eight hours. Lengths of stay are up in the ER, as well, as patients wait for a staffed medicine bed on a ward or a personal care home bed to become available.

Longer ER stays contribute to illness and death, according to Manitoba’s 2017 wait time reduction task force report.

In 2016-17, the average length of stay in an ER was 11.9 hours. In 2021-22, it was 20.6 hours — the longest in Canada among the eight provinces and territories that participated in a CIHI study. The average was 12.4 hours.

Such data show the root of the ER problem began before the pandemic, MNU said, and it wants the PC government to acknowledge that and the fact patients seeking non-urgent care are not the root cause.

“What I’m taking exception to is patient-blaming,” Jackson said of the push for Winnipeggers to go to a walk-in clinic or a family doctor for non-urgent issues rather than a hospital ER.

Jackson said she is especially concerned about inner-city residents, for whom the Health Sciences Centre emergency room may be their only or best primary care option.

“A lot of these patients don’t have a family doctor… and the ability to get to a different facility doesn’t happen,” Jackson said.

“You can’t close the door on options for these individuals and not provide a different, reasonable option, in a place they can access it, and then turn around and blame the patients.”

Health Minister Audrey Gordon did not respond to a request for comment.

The Winnipeg Regional Health Authority defended the ads launched in October.

“It’s important to note this campaign was never intended to be a cure-all for emergency and urgent care wait times,” a WRHA spokesperson said in an email.

The WRHA hasn’t tracked how many patients have heeded the message. However, the Walk-In Connected Care and Walk-In Clinic websites have received more than 320,000 page views combined, and the MyRightCare.ca site had 1.3 million views since it launched in October.

The government campaign nudging patients to seek non-urgent care at a clinic or doctor’s office is a “disingenuous” tactic that’s been used before by provinces to divert attention from deeper, more complex problems that need to be addressed, a MNU statement said.

A position paper by the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians (cited in the 2017 wait time reduction task force report) acknowledged “inappropriate use of the (emergency department) across Canada” was getting a lot of media attention. However, “the primary cause” was hospital crowding — or “access block” — the inability of patients in the ER to access inpatient beds when they need to be admitted to hospital."

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2023/01/27/nurses-take-issue-with-tories-patient-blaming

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

Election this fall...