Winnipeg Jets 2023 Off-Season Thread

[TrueBlue4ever]

All discussion of summer season stuff here. Signings, free agent losses, draft. 

So where do we go? Who do we cut bait with? More importantly, what do we get back? Are we in full tank mode now, is there anything salvageable, if so, what?

[TrueBlue4ever]

First things first, I think keeping Cheveldayoff is a mistake. I had low expectations going into this year, given the lack of change in the roster. The first half of the year was overachieving, and I did not drink the Kool-aid despite enjoying the results. The second half was a regression to where they should have been, but they did suffer from bad puck luck as well as uninspired play.

In the end, I had not counted on a playoff spot or 95 points so I think they overachieved a bit, but that does not make it a successful year. If Chevy believes that it was, that is a big concern, because this is not a team on the upswing. They are also not a Washington or Toronto who have chronically underachieved in the playoffs after great seasons who just need that one breakthrough. And given just one season of many key contracts left, I think the attitude should be make the painful re-build changes now and speed up the recovery.

Chevy had his chance at “one more time with this roster” this past year, with middling results and by all accounts no fix of the underlying culture issues, if all the unsubstantiated rumours and eye test mean anything. He said at the trade deadline that this roster was good enough to compete for the Cup without major additions - he was proven wrong again, and I don’t see what further rope he should be given, given that he pushed all his chips in and busted. 

That begs the ultimate question, who is out there to replace him? I agree with Rod Black that Heizinger should not be an option. Don’t know if David Polie wants another crack at GM now that he is out in Nashville, but I’d be on board with that pick. Any other names out there?

Edited May 1, 2023 by TrueBlue4ever

[Rod Black]

As much as it might be an appropriate step to replace Cheveldayoff, I don’t think that will happen. He might have only one year left. If it happened, maybe then Bones or even Trotz could be a replacement. 
On the theory of a rebuild, that might be a bit “extreme”. Possibly just replacing a couple of cancerous elements within the locker room straightens up salvageable players that fell into the “screw the coach” mentality. 
rather than saying off season activities are “having meetings Monday and more meetings Tuesday” as a means of identifying the direction, it is obvious management will need to address the 37, 55, 80 and 26 contract issues. Reviewing each of their stats during the regular provides a basis and imminent contractual duration for decisions. 
It’s not clear 80 is itching to get out, but if the rumours have truth, he might provide the most lucrative return, but I’ll place 37 as a value producing asset as well. 55 is a follower, yet highly skilled, mentally- still immature by being above the task of back checking, his ears don’t work when it comes to “get off the ice”, with maybe four years left his career as a producer. He can be a piece for a team that doesn’t rely on him as a leader. His club friendly salary is intriguing. No team wants Wheeler for his fight the coach behaviour, and if NHL coaches talk to one another - the entire league knows it. That ridiculous contract is an albatross for the teams financial line, so they would be required to go cheap for one year. Apparently they could have traded him in 2019 but that was scuttled by chipper, with the result being severe damage to the cap.

What they can get for the four can be used to plug some of the holes. Next apply special coaching techniques/ itiatives, like has been done in the past by Detroit, with the recently drafted high potential players. That might be only two or three roster spots. Fans love watching young exciting players. Fans love watching them grow, as a team. They sell tickets and are cap friendly. After all, the Jets claim they have some tremendous prospects. No rebuild but definite move to attempt an improvement. Rather, at least give the impression of an attempt to improve, because confidence in management is at an all time low. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Rod Black

[bb1]

I agree except for 80. IF the rumours are true ,Montreal will just wait us out get him for free. Unfortunately i think they are true. Our only hope is that Montreal is desperate enough to give us at least a first rounder to show their fans they are trying to win now. We won't get fair value but at least a chance at a decent  player somewhere down the line.

[blue_gold_84]

If there was ever an off-season for this organization to try and go all in and ice the best possible roster, this would be it.

How that looks is anyone's guess. However, with what's been going on here since February (and perhaps longer), alarm bells should be ringing for Chipman, Cheveldayoff, and anyone else who seems content to rest on the laurels of mediocrity the last few years.

Figure it the **** out. If you want the fanbase to show up, do the same as an organization. 

And if it means moving on from players who can't handle the pressure of this market, so be it. And good riddance.

Edited May 1, 2023 by blue_gold_84
some real wise guys on here

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, Rod Black said:

As much as it might be an appropriate step to replace Cheveldayoff, I don’t think that will happen. He might have only one year left. If it happened, maybe then Bones or even Trotz could be a replacement. 
On the theory of a rebuild, that might be a bit “extreme”. Possibly just replacing a couple of cancerous elements within the locker room straightens up salvageable players that fell into the “screw the coach” mentality. 
rather than saying off season activities are “having meetings Monday and more meetings Tuesday” as a means of identifying the direction, it is obvious management will need to address the 37, 55, 80 and 26 contract issues. Reviewing each of their stats during the regular provides a basis and imminent contractual duration for decisions. 
It’s not clear 80 is itching to get out, but if the rumours have truth, he might provide the most lucrative return, but I’ll place 37 as a value producing asset as well. 55 is a follower, yet highly skilled, mentally- still immature by being above the task of back checking, his ears don’t work when it comes to “get off the ice”, with maybe four years left his career as a producer. He can be a piece for a team that doesn’t rely on him as a leader. His club friendly salary is intriguing. No team wants Wheeler for his fight the coach behaviour, and if NHL coaches talk to one another - the entire league knows it. That ridiculous contract is an albatross for the teams financial line, so they would be required to go cheap for one year. Apparently they could have traded him in 2019 but that was scuttled by chipper, with the result being severe damage to the cap.

What they can get for the four can be used to plug some of the holes. Next apply special coaching techniques/ itiatives, like has been done in the past by Detroit, with the recently drafted high potential players. That might be only two or three roster spots. Fans love watching young exciting players. Fans love watching them grow, as a team. They sell tickets and are cap friendly. After all, the Jets claim they have some tremendous prospects. No rebuild but definite move to attempt an improvement. Rather, at least give the impression of an attempt to improve, because confidence in management is at an all time low. 

Interesting takes on the big 4. I think this whole next season starts and ends with 37. If he means it when he says he doesn’t want a re-build (no player ever does, but they do need to happen from time to time) and won’t sign long-term, then I believe the team’s direction has been chosen for them. Given his talent he is untouchable unless he clearly doesn’t want to commit long-term anymore. He is a massive chip to move and could get a huge return from a lot of teams who need that final Cup piece, but we are sunk without him short-term. Can only base his intentions on what he said at his exit meeting with the press, management needs a serious conversation with him.

All the other rumours are plentiful and inconsistent. And no one really knows the truth of what is going on in the locker room who is willing to go on record, so no one truly “knows” when all the speculation gets thrown around.

So in terms of 80, the rumours are that he wants to go to Montreal, but who knows for sure? But the circumstantial evidence of the facts is compelling. His agent confirmed through the media he was interested, and wanted to get to free agency ASAP. Also confirmed he was in Montreal for the draft in 2022. The rumour is that he anticipated a trade on draft weekend - who knows? Fact is he opened up a community hockey program in Quebec and attended a presser in Montreal when the Jets were there in January. Also a fact that the Jets tailspin started around that time. That may be mere coincidence. But facts are that from the Montreal game to end of season, Dubois played 29 games, had 6G-7A-13 points, was -4 with 37 PIM. Those are lousy numbers for a #1 centre. He checked out for quite a spell and he pretty much disappeared after game 1 of the Vegas series.  Now he’s only 24 so there is a ton of room for growth, would love to see him stay if he hits his potential, but he already quit on one team in Columbus, and he is not inspiring a ton of confidence in me that he doesn’t want to bail on us too. I guess this next contract will give us a solid clue, let’s hope management doesn’t ignore that clue.

I may be in the big minority, but I think 26 is misunderstood and somewhat unfairly slighted. We all knew his contract would be an overpay by the end of it, but we actually got some decent value out of it compared to a lot of other big money players whose value dwindles as they age. He is gruff, certainly with the media, so it gets him a bad rap.  But some of them are jackasses in my opinion, and are just there to stir the pot, which he doesn’t have time for. Is he a cancer? Well, I know a guy who knows a guy who met the pilot on the Jets charter flight who says he’s an a-hole (that’s the typical level of source floating around online or in the watering holes). I’ve also heard he bought a family’s groceries for them at the supermarket. He has owned his temper and said he had to change his hard-nosed style as captain when some younger players did not respond to it. And those players didn’t want to stay anyway after his supposed softer approach. Whether or not he actually did change his style? Well, I don’t have access to the locker room (just like everyone else with an opinion) so I can’t say. I can only hear his words. If he was wrong to pick a fight with  Bowness and should be turfed because of it, well then gut the team, because it sounds like a huge chunk of the locker room agreed with him (37 was sitting right beside him at the presser and said “I couldn’t have said it any better”, Connor, Dubois, Lowry, Morrissey also all picked the same fight). He gets flak for wearing the C and having to be the voice all the time with the big contract, so he is a lightning rod. But I remember a guy who, whatever his diminishing skills are, did not half-ass it on the ice even if he couldn’t keep up with the young’uns, twice blocked a shot with his groin, ruptured a t-e-s-t-i-c-l-e (really, automatic word censor? You bleeped that word but let “motherfucker” through?) and finished the game, and then came back from surgery 6 weeks early. I did not see a quitter. But as was said, being an a-hole is OK if you can still produce, but it wears thin if you can’t. That’s where he is headed. I say buy him out only if you really need the money to keep or sign other big pieces, otherwise just eat the last year of his contract because he is still good for 45-50 points next year, and maybe more if the stars align.

55 is the most confounding. He is by all accounts a hockey nerd, devoting all his spare time to studying the game. He idolizes Steve Yzerman and craves a legacy where he stays with one franchise for his career, all according to media reports. So why is such a dedicated hockey geek so lousy at some of the fundamentals? Why does someone who wants the glory of Olympic selection so unwilling to expand his game and learn even the simplest of defensive responsibilities or shift time management? Now, Yzerman changed his game after age 30 and learned to switch to a defence-first mold (won the Cup at 32 and the Selke at 35) so it is possible, but does 55 have the motivation (and maybe lack of ego) to do so? No signs yet point to a “yes”, given the available body of evidence. I wonder how much the suspension (or his Achilles injury the playoffs before) got between his ears? Saw the same fall from Todd Burtuzzi in Vancouver when he got nailed by player safety, as one example. And I’ve heard too many rumours about him and other teammates (both as the instigator and the victim of the “who fooled around with whose teammates’ girlfriend”) to have any clue what the truth is about a fractured locker room incident. But he is really close to the finish line of “now is his chance to elevate and change his game to be a better player” if he isn’t already past it. I think his future is totally tied to whether we have Dubois as a centre or not, because you just can’t give them both up unless you are in full tank mode.

Last point, the team raved about the improved room and more voices being able to speak and all hanging out and going to each others’ weddings and playing golf together over last summer, and they seemed to echo that better place in the closing presser. So if the culture is better (and again no one who is outside the dressing room can really say) then maybe this team simply isn’t as talented as some would say. Certainly not as good as the 2018 team points total suggested (I say we overachieved big time and we’re closer to 105 points and second round loser level) that everyone seems to still cling to as the standard, which only leads to false expectations and heartbreak. This team never recovered from the defence defections in 2019, and until that gets truly fixed (much more size and grit needed) this team is going nowhere IMO. 

Thanks for indulging my long diatribe. 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by TrueBlue4ever

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

If there was ever an off-season for this organization to try and go all in and ice the best possible roster for the 2023-24 season, this would be it.

What other off-season is there to go all in for 23/24 other than this one? 

[blue_gold_84]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

What other off-season is there to go all in for 23/24 other than this one? 

You know what the **** I meant.

[Rod Black]

TB4E. The stats you referenced on 80 mark important considerations.

37 is a big piece, and to keep him is ex-pen-sive and possible. Might have to pay. Has 55 ever had a first line all star year? He’s selfish. and fans maybe tired of this group. 
26, May have bought groceries for a family, but so have I and I didn’t tweet it. charity runs deep in this town. His decade of leadership is best exemplified by 2018 and sweeping the oilers. It takes more repeated success to be held in as high esteem as he seems to hold in himself. 
to examine group dynamics, those that provided verbal support of 26 insubordinate comments were followers. They could very well change while thinking about their futures sitting in boat, fishing in a lake over the break. Let’s face it, if they are here, what are the chances they have no trade clauses to some other, surprisingly less desirable location. Listing the  other camps would create a debate I don’t want trigger, but there’s some nasty spots not only economically and geographically but team organizations that are more or just as pathetic as some view this place. After all, Chevy alludes to what he considers as a fact that this place better than 16 other spots. Bottom line -Followers fall in line. 
chevy could and should have addressed the urgent requirement to resolve large contract issues. Avoiding it clearly didn’t satisfy these fans. So who wants to complain about about transparency now that Chevy said nothing? Wheeler? 
anywho, kudos for taking the time for comments. I know there were a couple points that struck me as new. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Rod Black

[Rod Black]

SNL skit - During exit interview with #81, “so you think this place is bad? How about we trade you to Vancouver, eh? How about Anaheim? Huh? Hahahahahah - and you think you have it bad here - hahahah”.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Rod Black

[HardCoreBlue]

4 hours ago, bb1 said:

I agree except for 80. IF the rumours are true ,Montreal will just wait us out get him for free. Unfortunately i think they are true. Our only hope is that Montreal is desperate enough to give us at least a first rounder to show their fans they are trying to win now. We won't get fair value but at least a chance at a decent  player somewhere down the line.

That's why maybe a multi-team player swap makes better sense in getting something useful from Montreal in exchange for #80.

Isn't this a perfect example where Chevy needs to show his stuff other than musing how most people don't realize what a great place the Jets are in and how hard it is to make the playoffs and saying things like don't let facts get in your way of a good story?

[Rod Black]

When the auto sales department takes over the season ticket sales department…

I’m disappointed they lost four games in a row. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Rod Black

[TrueBlue4ever]

Just as a comparable to Dubois’ stats since the Montreal game, here are some other prominent players:

Connor

38 GP, 10G, 17A, 27P, -22, 14PIM

Ehlers

37 GP, 9G, 17A, 26P, -4, 9PIM

Wheeler

37GP, 5G, 20A, 25P,  -7, 20PIM

Scheifele

37GP, 16G, 13A, 29P, -16, 10PIM

Lowry

38GP, 6G, 7A, 13P, +2, 31PIM (5 majors)

Morrissey

34GP, 8G, 20A, 28P, -9, 16PIM

Pionk

38GP, 3G, 11A, 14P, -7, 23 PIM

DeMelo

35GP, 4G, 9A, 13 P, +0, 30 PIM

[Rod Black]

Chevy and the Jets embarrass themselves to the hockey world. https://thehockeywriters.com/winnipeg-jets-kevin-cheveldayoff-status-quo-may-2023/

[kelownabomberfan]

2 hours ago, Rod Black said:

Chevy and the Jets embarrass themselves to the hockey world. https://thehockeywriters.com/winnipeg-jets-kevin-cheveldayoff-status-quo-may-2023/

Just having so many flashbacks to the Mike Smith/Fergie years.  Every year was either "a great chance to build off the successes of last year" or "we are seeing the results of the long term plan and the plan is working" except that it was always one step forward and then two steps backwards.  I always was looking forward to the new prospects coming in every year like Ehlers/Morrissey/Laine/Connor etc but do we even have anyone of that caliber anymore in development?  Or is the depth and future of this team just toast now?

[Rod Black]

Jets hire enthusiastic Communications Manager

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Rod Black

[IC Khari]

The off season summarized for the long suffering fans ...

[HardCoreBlue]

“My main goal is to win a Stanley Cup,” Hellebuyck said. “I’m starting to run out of time.” Taken from the Hockey News A story by Nick Horwat

Not knowing my place, not being appreciative enough of having a NHL team, being way too negative and not understanding it's not realistic to expect a championship for this team at some point, sure wish this quote came from Chevy not Helle.

[iHeart]

you mean we called him Norrissey for nothing?!

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

12 minutes ago, iHeart said:

you mean we called him Norrissey for nothing?!

 

Wait for the Vezina disappointment

 

[iHeart]

1 minute ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Wait for the Vezina disappointment

 

to be honest I actually do expect it

[captaincanuck12]

https://winnipegsun.com/sports/winnipeg-jets-out-scouted-in-their-own-back-yard-golden-knights-make-it-look-that-way

There is some merit to this, however Mark Stone's inclusion is flat out stupid.   He was an Ottawa draft pick and then traded to Vegas.   Jets realistically had no shot landing him when Ottawa was in firesale mode.  

[FrostyWinnipeg]

3 minutes ago, captaincanuck12 said:

https://winnipegsun.com/sports/winnipeg-jets-out-scouted-in-their-own-back-yard-golden-knights-make-it-look-that-way

There is some merit to this, however Mark Stone's inclusion is flat out stupid.   He was an Ottawa draft pick and then traded to Vegas.   Jets realistically had no shot landing him when Ottawa was in firesale mode.  

Plus as soon as he was traded to VGK he signed boku bucks with them.

Maybe if VGK wins Cup it frees up Kelly McCrimmon

 

[Rod Black]

Paul Maurice splains. 

 

[Goalie]

12 hours ago, Rod Black said:

Paul Maurice splains. 

 

What Paul doesn't tell you is he allowed that culture to exist in the room. Lots of fun quotes from Paul in the media like I can make them cry in there but it was just for show. Maurice allowed the room problems to fester. It's not all on him but the dressing room problems started with him. Accountability was never a thing with Maurice.  

Edited May 6, 2023 by Goalie