CFL - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Jesse]

32 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I just think that sometimes as fans we take a decision like starting Maruo (who played pretty well btw) and we isolate it and put it in a bubble, fill it with hot air until it becomes a "is this the year fans turn on MOS" type of thread. Great for discussion but overblown.

We are 5-2 with all 5 victories being by pretty decent margins. Yea...we crapped the bed in a couple games...and that's not something we are used to seeing, but we are in very decent shape through 7 games. Even in 2021, a year many of us hold up as maybe the greatest single season in Bomber history many of our victories came late in games and were pretty tight until we blew it open in the 4th Q..

The difference being Zach getting beat up in ways we’ve never seen before.

Highlights the inefficiency of the run game - which never mattered at this point last year.

[Mark H.]

13 hours ago, wbbfan said:

No, but any hc could’ve won with the 19 run and 21 gc roster. 

No sir.  There was plenty of bitching about the 2019 roster & how it was managed

That was a third place team who won many games off the foot of Medlock. They acquired a legit QB and came together at the right time.

[GCn20]

14 minutes ago, Jesse said:

The difference being Zach getting beat up in ways we’ve never seen before.

Highlights the inefficiency of the run game - which never mattered at this point last year.

I honestly don't see Zach taking many more hits than he ever has. I'd like to see the numbers on how many hits per game he is taking this year vs last year.

9 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

No sir.  There was plenty of bitching about the 2019 roster & how it was managed

That was a third place team who won many games off the foot of Medlock. They acquired a legit QB and came together at the right time.

There will ALWAYS be bitching on fan forums. That is a given. I like to measure performance by results. Does MOS have flaws, show me a person in the world who doesn't, is he by far and away the best HC in this loop. Hands down...no one even close really. Problem with fans is we like to take a small problem, isolate it, and therefore it becomes overblown and out of context to the over all.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

12 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

No sir.  There was plenty of bitching about the 2019 roster & how it was managed

That was a third place team who won many games off the foot of Medlock. They acquired a legit QB and came together at the right time.

we got lucky in 2019....we played well dont get me wrong...but were lucky and won with some flawed things....things that still continue whether people here like to admit/agree or not

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I honestly don't see Zach taking many more hits than he ever has. I'd like to see the numbers on how many hits per game he is taking this year vs last year.

I have no stats/numbers, but I don't think pass pro is as good as it was - when they had Andrew Harris still at his peak performance

He was a master in pass pro, and as a safety valve

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I have no stats/numbers, but I don't think pass pro is not as good as it was - when they had Andrew Harris still at his peak performance

He was a master in pass pro, and as a safety valve

Yea...last year ZC took a lot of hits and pressures as well. I think that is due to some roster turnover on the OL and Harris being gone. I am not seeing it as a big problem though. He is still probably the cleanest or one of the cleanest QBs in the league when it comes to contact. Do we have the 2019/21 OL anymore? No we don't. Is our OL a problem...that is fantasy.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Mark H.]

6 minutes ago, Booch said:

we got lucky in 2019....we played well dont get me wrong...but were lucky and won with some flawed things....things that still continue whether people here like to admit/agree or not

Maybe they got lucky, but 2019 was a physically dominant team with a running attack that no one could stop

They hit people in the mouth, early and often, and that was usually why they won

That team was not afraid to put their noses to the grindstone, and their HC had more to do with that than anyone else

 

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

we got lucky in 2019....we played well dont get me wrong...but were lucky and won with some flawed things....things that still continue whether people here like to admit/agree or not

We most certainly did not get lucky in 2019. We gave a master class in playoff football that year. As for winning with some flawed things....EVERY Grey Cup champ EVER.  Hey I don't mind the discussion of our weaknesses, but saying our three year run is flawed and lucky is over the top.

[Jpan85]

Collaros has admitted that he has been holding the ball too long and not all the blame should be put on the Oline, I know you are all going to say he is just sticking up for his guys but I do think there is some truth to the statement.

 

[Booch]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I honestly don't see Zach taking many more hits than he ever has. I'd like to see the numbers on how many hits per game he is taking this year vs last year.

There will ALWAYS be bitching on fan forums. That is a given. I like to measure performance by results. Does MOS have flaws, show me a person in the world who doesn't, is he by far and away the best HC in this loop. Hands down...no one even close really. Problem with fans is we like to take a small problem, isolate it, and therefore it becomes overblown and out of context to the over all.

and to be honest...to be a good HC u lean heavily on the other coaches, and talent afforded to you....u make a few decisions and or calls....but for the most part they are petty standard and almost at times a given in what you are to do...really good coaches are guys who take chances an go with hunches....and succeed at it more than not...If anything Osh has stopped doing that....HC has basically final say in the roster after conferring, and if he doesnt have morons as his co-ordinators they call 99% of the plays...now if he doesnt give those co-ords the best possible players to run the schemes with...well then thats where the u=issues arise from.....People put too much value in what the HC actually does to be honest, some time warranted...many times not....they oversee the whole thing....they arent doing some secret special thing that others are not to be successful....they manage the whole package....With a good roster and group of OC's....a good any of us could stand there on game day and have same success if you have a brain in yours head....and I sure many here are gonna argue otherwise here...but this is from seeing it first hand.

The one thing Osh...and his team...management on down included have done bar none better than anywhere, and others are trying to emulate is create the culture....pillars....and quality where players want to be, and at discount in many cases...that cannot be denied and was the major cornerstone in turning what was a flaming heap around

[Mark H.]

Just now, Jpan85 said:

Collaros has admitted that he has been holding the ball too long and not all the blame should be put on the Oline, I know you are all going to say he is just sticking up for his guys but I do think there is some truth to the statement.

 

But that's how ZC plays football.  He's always been more of a downfield passer. 

[MOBomberFan]

Luck is preparation plus opportunity, no mystical energies won us a cup/cups, it was a coach and his team that won it. Leave the superstition to medieval peasants

[Booch]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

We most certainly did not get lucky in 2019. We gave a master class in playoff football that year. As for winning with some flawed things....EVERY Grey Cup champ EVER.  Hey I don't mind the discussion of our weaknesses, but saying our three year run is flawed and lucky is over the top.

never said 3 yr run was flawed....that being said...depth last yr was a reason we lost and poor in game adjustments....who's feet does that fall on...basically squarley on coaches....

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

and to be honest...to be a good HC u lean heavily on the other coaches, and talent afforded to you....u make a few decisions and or calls....but for the most part they are petty standard and almost at times a given in what you are to do...really good coaches are guys who take chances an go with hunches....and succeed at it more than not...If anything Osh has stopped doing that....HC has basically final say in the roster after conferring, and if he doesnt have morons as his co-ordinators they call 99% of the plays...now if he doesnt give those co-ords the best possible players to run the schemes with...well then thats where the u=issues arise from.....People put too much value in what the HC actually does to be honest, some time warranted...many times not....they oversee the whole thing....they arent doing some secret special thing that others are not to be successful....they manage the whole package....With a good roster and group of OC's....a good any of us could stand there on game day and have same success if you have a brain in yours head....and I sure many here are gonna argue otherwise here...but this is from seeing it first hand.

The one thing Osh...and his team...management on down included have done bar none better than anywhere, and others are trying to emulate is create the culture....pillars....and quality where players want to be, and at discount in many cases...that cannot be denied and was the major cornerstone in turning what was a flaming heap around

I agree. Building a championship and setting up culture are the lynch pins of success. What are arguing about again? I wouldn't trade MOS for any HC in this league....would you?

[Mark H.]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

never said 3 yr run was flawed....that being said...depth last yr was a reason we lost and poor in game adjustments....who's feet does that fall on...basically squarley on coaches....

I would say in both 2021 and 2022, the team had faced less adversity during the season

Quite a few teams pretty much gave up when they played them - Argos in the GC refused to fold

[GCn20]

9 minutes ago, Booch said:

never said 3 yr run was flawed....that being said...depth last yr was a reason we lost and poor in game adjustments....who's feet does that fall on...basically squarley on coaches....

Depth at QB? Because if Zach comes into that game healthy you will never convince me that we wouldn't have won that game. The biggest coaching flaw I saw in the GC last year was not using Brown vs, Prukop.

5 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I would say in both 2021 and 2022, the team had faced less adversity during the season

Quite a few teams pretty much gave up when they played them - Argos in the GC refused to fold

Teams didn't give up they got worn down and their compete level beat out of them. I mean maybe in garbage time they gave up...and maybe shouldn't have...but most of our wins last year we clearly outclassed the opposition. I would say the same is true this year as well. Even Ottawa was a rout that was simply our team putting the cart before the horse and it spiralling on us. I chalk that loss up to pure hubris by our players.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I agree. Building a championship and setting up culture are the lynch pins of success. What are arguing about again? I wouldn't trade MOS for any HC in this league....would you?

no...I wouldn't...But I would like him to a bit to sustain things...and get the jump on teams who have caught up...to again be a step or 2 behind...thats all....and he hasnt done that...all great HC's evolve....he needs to a bit now as well

 

6 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I would say in both 2021 and 2022, the team had faced less adversity during the season

Quite a few teams pretty much gave up when they played them - Argos in the GC refused to fold

i like this adversity this yr...will be key for us down the stretch....and part of that teams basically folding before, or being grinded into submission...but not so much now is they have caught up...and caught on...hence time for Osh and Company to set a new bar...dominate it and have others 2 steps behind again...show me a coach/gm that didnt adapt..evolve...tweak, and I will show you a coach walking the streets or doing TV color..

8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Depth at QB? Because if Zach comes into that game healthy you will never convince me that we wouldn't have won that game. The biggest coaching flaw I saw in the GC last year was not using Brown vs, Prukop.

Teams didn't give up they got worn down and their compete level beat out of them. I mean maybe in garbage time they gave up...and maybe shouldn't have...but most of our wins last year we clearly outclassed the opposition. I would say the same is true this year as well. Even Ottawa was a rout that was simply our team putting the cart before the horse and it spiralling on us.

from coaches playing the lax passive game, and easing up as to not make an error....which is a fools game...and has burned us over and over....MTL comeback....Game in T.O ...and thats just off top of my head....learn and evolve from those instances....dont repeat them

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

no...I wouldn't...But I would like him to a bit to sustain things...and get the jump on teams who have caught up...to again be a step or 2 behind...thats all....and he hasnt done that...all great HC's evolve....he needs to a bit now as well

 

i like this adversity this yr...will be key for us down the stretch....and part of that teams basically folding before, or being grinded into submission...but not so much now is they have caught up...and caught on...hence time for Osh and Company to set a new bar...dominate it and have others 2 steps behind again...show me a coach/gm that didnt adapt..evolve...tweak, and I will show you a coach walking the streets or doing TV color..

I agree. I think we went into the playoffs last year a little fat and sassy. A little adversity will rebuild that aspect of our players characters that may have been on the shelf. I understand our team wanting to run things back with this group, and so far it looks good, but KW needs to get to work now for next year.

In fairness to you first statement....yea....I think a lot of our team needs to evolve this year. I think last year we just kinda rode out the string at the end and weren't hungry.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Mark H.]

25 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

In fairness to you first statement....yea....I think a lot of our team needs to evolve this year. I think last year we just kinda rode out the string at the end and weren't hungry.

It was a solid case of "if ifs and but were candy and nuts...we'd all have a Merry Christmas."

[bb1]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

we got lucky in 2019....we played well dont get me wrong...but were lucky and won with some flawed things....things that still continue whether people here like to admit/agree or not

One Cup...maybe, maybe i agree. But 2 ******* Cups? No way in hell it's luck....

 

 

 

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, bb1 said:

One Cup...maybe, maybe i agree. But 2 ******* Cups? No way in hell it's luck....

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure if Booch had the chance he would rephrase that. It wasn't luck. our defence was absolutely lights out, and our offence firing on all cylinders all 3 games. We won every one in very convincing fashion. Definitely not one game where we didn't completely overwhelm the opposition in those playoffs. It was one of the most dominant playoff runs I have ever seen in the CFL.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[bb1]

Man u could say the Argoes got lucky last year because our FG kicker could not make a convert to save his ass, or what if their starting QB didn't get hurt???? 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Just now, GCn20 said:

I'm pretty sure if Booch had the chance he would rephrase that. It wasn't luck. our defence was absolutely lights out, and our offence firing on all cylinders all 3 games. We won every one in very convincing fashion. Definitely not one game where we didn't completely overwhelm the opposition in those playoffs.

Our playoff defense in 2019 was generational, as was our regular season defense in 2021. That was no fluke.

[Bigblue204]

14 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Considering we brought in 4 different modes, it’s not the gm lol. 
 No, but any hc could’ve won with the 19 run and 21 gc roster. 
 It’s not patience when you’re dealing with a none pro quality player / none starter quality in this league. 
 We keep running out the same ol and people will change their tune, again, very quickly. Win going into a bye and people forget the massive bullet we dodged when collaros limping in ott  

idk if Bennett took a step forward, or if he was just playing against some burned toast. But at this point I don’t hold much hope of him being a fraction as good as kongbo at any point in his time here. 

That's pure revisionist history right there. Maaaaaybe in 21...maybe. But 19 was a team that got hot at the right time, and a lot of that was due to coaching decisions in the secondary and the combination of Strev and Collaros. They were not the same team as 2021. 

I agree on Bennet. I'll go as far as saying he won't be on the roster next year. Honestly just watch him play, he beats no one. His only play last week was when Corny rolled out to his side and the tackle essentially pushed him towards Corny, even then he was still beat to the edge and was lucky Corny can't hit the broad side of a barn. Bennet is a grade A bust imo.

[Noeller]

I can understand the perspective of someone thinking the '19 run was a fluke.... that we just got on a heater. But so much credit has to be given to Osh and his leadership skills for having that team fired up the whole way through and making sure they were prepared. Remember also that during GC Week '19, most of the team came down with a bad flu bug and were in rough shape. They still came out and put on *THAT* performance that day.... truly incredible. And I really think a lot of that had to do with Osh's leadership