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CFL - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

JCon

By JCon
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M.Silverback Collaborator

M.Silverback

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I agree. The quality of our starters is excellent. We do have to make sure they don't get worn out and that we can survive injuries if they come. That's the issue. Our starting DL is as good as anyones and better than most.

3 hours ago, Booch said:

when its The Jeffs..Walker and Lawson with Haba subbing....I'd rank them right up there.....but we have diddly behind them right now

My post ranking the Bombers DL mid range in the CFL was taking into consideration the entire rotation - 7 players, some teams run 9. No point ranking just the starting 4 because in today's game you need a rotation to be successful. As many of have said, our starting 4 gets gassed. The diddly behind them is the issue.

And the sacks stat - touche. It's not always the D-line impacting in terms of overall sack stats though. Scheme, blitzing frequency ... I think we can agree that if we don't get better depth, or better play from our current depth, it does not bode well for the remaining 11 games and playoffs. Overworking and over relying on the Jeff's, with minimal impact from the DT position, isn't a Grey Cup winning recipe. And I still stand by my statement that I'd choose at least 4 other teams' to ours D-line rotation, while still acknowledging that Jeff's are elite.

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TrueBlue4ever
TrueBlue4ever

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bluedawg
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GCn20 Grand Master

GCn20

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

My post ranking the Bombers DL mid range in the CFL was taking into consideration the entire rotation - 7 players, some teams run 9. No point ranking just the starting 4 because in today's game you need a rotation to be successful. As many of have said, our starting 4 gets gassed. The diddly behind them is the issue.

And the sacks stat - touche. It's not always the D-line impacting in terms of overall sack stats though. Scheme, blitzing frequency ... I think we can agree that if we don't get better depth, or better play from our current depth, it does not bode well for the remaining 11 games and playoffs. Overworking and over relying on the Jeff's, with minimal impact from the DT position, isn't a Grey Cup winning recipe. And I still stand by my statement that I'd choose at least 4 other teams' to ours D-line rotation, while still acknowledging that Jeff's are elite.

I disagree, but not vehemently. your reasoning is sound. I just put more weight on our starters as they will always take 80% of the snaps. Our depth is certainly concerning though.

TBURGESS Veteran

TBURGESS

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Feel free to keep making a fool of yourself. I'm enjoying it.

Collaros IS the best qb in the league. He wasn't in those playoff games. Again....look at what actually happened. Not how you feel.

You admit that we wouldn't win with a rookie QB starting, but foolishly won't admit that Collaros was the difference maker.

Riddle me this... Why did the defence which had won 1 of the last 5 games of the year without Collaros, suddenly went on a 4 game winning streak as we started Collaros?

 

Booch Grand Master

Booch

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I disagree, but not vehemently. your reasoning is sound. I just put more weight on our starters as they will always take 80% of the snaps. Our depth is certainly concerning though.

Rotational guys are just that...rotate in to get the main dudes a breather....other teams rotational guys are that...and behind guys for the most part that are lesser talents than our over all starting 4....that being said...without Haba our rotational guys at moment (Thomas and Bennett) or bottom tier guys....the funny thing in this all, is 2018 - 2021 range we were kind of the first team to do the 7..8 guy heavy rotation and were damn dominant in doing so...Last year just after e traded Wilcott's and dumped Mack we tossed out a lineup with minimal D-Lineman as Osh stated in media he wanted to try something, and see how this worked/looked...well since that point one of our main defensive strengths and calling cards suffered....and it wasnt really doing much for the defense...yet we never reverted back....question is, why?

Bigblue204 Grand Master

Bigblue204

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

You admit that we wouldn't win with a rookie QB starting, but foolishly won't admit that Collaros was the difference maker.

Riddle me this... Why did the defence which had won 1 of the last 5 games of the year without Collaros, suddenly went on a 4 game winning streak as we started Collaros?

 

A - we wouldn't have been using a roookie QB. If there was no Collaros it was because we had a healthy Streveler who was not a rookie.

I'm guessing you forgot about the changes to the D late in the season?

17to85 Grand Master

17to85

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

You admit that we wouldn't win with a rookie QB starting, but foolishly won't admit that Collaros was the difference maker.

Riddle me this... Why did the defence which had won 1 of the last 5 games of the year without Collaros, suddenly went on a 4 game winning streak as we started Collaros?

 

Cause some of the most significant changes happened very late in the year? The secondary gave up gobs of yards until those late season changes. By the time post season rolled around they had the right people in the right spots.

TBURGESS Veteran

TBURGESS

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

A - we wouldn't have been using a roookie QB. If there was no Collaros it was because we had a healthy Streveler who was not a rookie.

I'm guessing you forgot about the changes to the D late in the season?

Strev wasn't healthy. No vet QB was available other than Collaros.

The last 3 games of 2019, the defence gave up 24, 37, & 28 points respectively. In the playoffs they gave up 14, 13 & 12. You think they'd do that with a rookie QB. 

To use the stats from the games that Collaros started, you need to make the following assumptions:

1. Rookie QB can win the last game of the season like Collars did, otherwise we don't play Calgary in the cold in the first round.

2. Rookie QB makes some plays that gives the team the unwavering belief that they can win, like Collaros' spinarrama TD. 

3. (The worst one and why it's not valid at all) The games would look exactly the same and have the same stats no matter if Collaros or Rookie QB play.

 

 

Edited by TBURGESS
Booch Grand Master

Booch

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, bb1 said:

Does this mean the Bombers kinda know what they are doing??? I'm shocked!😆

we would have...as would have CGY ha no clue about the possibility of failing the physical if Hamilton didn't provide that info....did Ham try and pull a fast one...or was Davis hiding something that the Cat's were not aware of...I will go with the latter.

So wasn't a reason why we may have passed on Davis, as we dont have a secret technology to see this...we likely passed, and I am glad as it was a trade, so you take on his salary which probably wasn't cheap....and he is a shell of what he was anyway

WinnipegGordo Grand Master

WinnipegGordo

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Booch said:

we would have...as would have CGY ha no clue about the possibility of failing the physical if Hamilton didn't provide that info....did Ham try and pull a fast one...or was Davis hiding something that the Cat's were not aware of...I will go with the latter.

So wasn't a reason why we may have passed on Davis, as we dont have a secret technology to see this...we likely passed, and I am glad as it was a trade, so you take on his salary which probably wasn't cheap....and he is a shell of what he was anyway

Yeah, he wasn't cheap.

https://3downnation.com/2023/07/27/trade-to-stampeders-voided-after-ticats-dl-jagared-davis-fails-physical/

The SMU product got a $15,000 signing bonus to rejoin the Ticats in February and is due $132,500 in hard money with a maximum value of $173,000 in 2023. He also received a $5,000 bonus for reporting to training camp in Steeltown and passing his physical.

SpeedFlex27 Grand Master

SpeedFlex27

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, WinnipegGordo said:

Yeah, he wasn't cheap.

https://3downnation.com/2023/07/27/trade-to-stampeders-voided-after-ticats-dl-jagared-davis-fails-physical/

The SMU product got a $15,000 signing bonus to rejoin the Ticats in February and is due $132,500 in hard money with a maximum value of $173,000 in 2023. He also received a $5,000 bonus for reporting to training camp in Steeltown and passing his physical.

If the Ti Cats cut Davis he gets nothing as no CFL contract is guaranteed. But teams like Hamilton paying these guys this kind of money with our limited salary cap kinda makes me want them to fail.

Brandon Grand Master

Brandon

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If the Ti Cats cut Davis he gets nothing as no CFL contract is guaranteed. But teams like Hamilton paying these guys this kind of money with our limited salary cap kinda makes me want them to fail.

It would be nice to see a breakdown of everyones contract in the league because what they paid him doesn't seem like its very far off from what most teams are paying veteran above average talents.  

bluto Mentor

bluto

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Just for conversation, thoughts on this statement: 

 

Shawn Lemon. Elfrid Payton. Joe Montford. Alouettes' GM Danny Maciocia believes all three names deserve to be uttered in the same breath.

 

blinkingguy.gif

Fatty Liver Grand Master

Fatty Liver

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, bluto said:

 

blinkingguy.gif

Still trying to figure out the architect of this Argo team as they don't have much of a football ops. staff, do you think it was Pinball, John Murphy working under cover, or the best remnants of the Stamps coaching staff?  I can't believe it was Larry Tanenbaum....

bluto Mentor

bluto

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Still trying to figure out the architect of this Argo team as they don't have much of a football ops. staff, do you think it was Pinball, John Murphy working under cover, or the best remnants of the Stamps coaching staff?  I can't believe it was Larry Tanenbaum....

It looks to have been largely Magri and Russell. Clemmons and Barker had senior positions and were consulted involved. But you'd have to convince me that Murphy wasn't in on it from the weeds.

Jpan85 Grand Master

Jpan85

Posted
Posted

Sacks per game:

Elfrid Payton = .81

Joe Montford = .72

Shawn Lemon = .68

 

Lemon is pretty close to Montford. Also they play in two completely different areas I feel like QB's and offenses don't hold the ball as long today as they did in the past.

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