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CFL - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

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GCn20 Grand Master

GCn20

Posted
Posted (edited)

Was over at RIderfans and some guy was suggesting that Shawn Bane will be a top 3 receiver in this league this coming year. 

I had a hunch about his production so I went and did a little deep dive of his numbers:

In the RIders 6 wins this season he averaged 49.5 yds a game, did not have a single 100 yard game, and was held to 40 yards or less in 4 of those wins. 

In 12 losses this year he put up all 4 of his 100 yard games, averaged 72.3 yards per game.

Can anyone say garbage time production? Numbers and stats can be so very deceptive sometimes. The guy did nothing for them really until teams played ultra soft coverage in garbage time. 

Edited by GCn20
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TrueBlue4ever
TrueBlue4ever

Frankie Williams had the most memorable highlight, just not the way he wishes.  Never. Gets. Old. 

Rich
Rich

Didn't like Proulx when he first became a head referee, but IMO he has morphed into the best head ref the league has.

bluedawg
bluedawg

Just came across this forum and signed up to join in on the conversation on the roster. Was reading some of the stuff people commented about on the PR shrinking and ADS and Agudosi getting picked

bluto Mentor

bluto

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Was over at RIderfans and some guy was suggesting that Shawn Bane will be a top 3 receiver in this league this coming year. 

I had a hunch about his production so I went and did a little deep dive of his numbers:

In the RIders 6 wins this season he averaged 49.5 yds a game, did not have a single 100 yard game, and was held to 40 yards or less in 4 of those wins. 

In 12 losses this year he put up all 4 of his 100 yard games, averaged 72.3 yards per game.

Can anyone say garbage time production? Numbers and stats can be so very deceptive sometimes. The guy did nothing for them really until teams played ultra soft coverage in garbage time. 

Perhaps they were anticipating a lot of garbage time next season?

Booch Grand Master

Booch

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Was over at RIderfans and some guy was suggesting that Shawn Bane will be a top 3 receiver in this league this coming year. 

I had a hunch about his production so I went and did a little deep dive of his numbers:

In the RIders 6 wins this season he averaged 49.5 yds a game, did not have a single 100 yard game, and was held to 40 yards or less in 4 of those wins. 

In 12 losses this year he put up all 4 of his 100 yard games, averaged 72.3 yards per game.

Can anyone say garbage time production? Numbers and stats can be so very deceptive sometimes. The guy did nothing for them really until teams played ultra soft coverage in garbage time. 

pretty much thats what him and Jones did...get yards after beat down.....

Rider Fans.......Their funny

Booch Grand Master

Booch

Posted
Posted
Just now, bluto said:

Perhaps they were anticipating a lot of garbage time next season?

Garbage season again at minimum 1 more yr....possibly longer once we see the new staff there.....Whomever it is will be saddled with Oday also.....nothing like starting behind the 8 ball after 2 glorious collapses

wbbfan Grand Master

wbbfan

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Did he really fail though? When he had decent quarterbacking his teams were good, when saddled with just a mentally broken Dane Evans, or busted shoulder can't throw anymore Bo Levi Mitchell it was rough. Same story anywhere in the cfl. You get good qb play you win games, you don't and you lose.

Yeah I mean he inherited a really crappy entitled veteran team. serious practice of victory formation in the gc week. The offence was largely in condels hands and slowly evolved from June jones max protect semi balanced run pass timing route stuff to this heavy pass spread offence that just hasn’t been nearly as good. They went from making QBs better to making them worse to not having good ones. 
 I think coach o is still a damn good coach but as a hc I think a fresh start and actually having his own team would be good. 
 

2 hours ago, bluto said:

Rich Stubler was a top tier DC who failed as a HC and then after a change of scenery had a second act as a very effective DC.

Richie Hall was a top tier DC who failed as a HC and then after a change in scenery had a second act as a very effective DC.

ORlondo Steinauer was a top tier DC who has failed as a HC...

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Stubler is heavily over rated imo, he wasn’t turning teams around he was getting hired to good teams. He also left the league like 4 times.  and hall has always excelled at adjusting. It’s no surprise to me that he bounced back. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Pete Catan's Ghost said:

"**** those guys. I'll show 'em how it's done. - T. Burke

Perfect example. Burke was maybe the most decorated and successful dc of his era. One fail as a hc and done. Devone claybrooks is another excellent dc who crashed and burned as a hc and was never heard from again. 
 Chris jones imo is a failed hc up jumped dc. 
 

If coach O gets canned he will bounce back no question. It’s not his fault that the team he inherited, that improved under him, got old.  He took a team that won 7 games then 6 then 8 to a 15 win year, two back to back grey cups and 3 east finals in a row. 31-19 with play offs every year and hosting a bunch of play off games isn’t failed. I mean go compare mos here before 19 to that. 

Pepper_Brooks Proficient

Pepper_Brooks

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Yeah I mean he inherited a really crappy entitled veteran team. serious practice of victory formation in the gc week

Wasn't that proven to be a bit exaggerated? They simply ended their practice with a ceremonial QB kneel, just like many other teams have done. It's excellent for stirring up social media rage, but it doesn't truly reflect the team's attitude or sense of entitlement.

wbbfan Grand Master

wbbfan

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Was over at RIderfans and some guy was suggesting that Shawn Bane will be a top 3 receiver in this league this coming year. 

I had a hunch about his production so I went and did a little deep dive of his numbers:

In the RIders 6 wins this season he averaged 49.5 yds a game, did not have a single 100 yard game, and was held to 40 yards or less in 4 of those wins. 

In 12 losses this year he put up all 4 of his 100 yard games, averaged 72.3 yards per game.

Can anyone say garbage time production? Numbers and stats can be so very deceptive sometimes. The guy did nothing for them really until teams played ultra soft coverage in garbage time. 

Mack is better than bane pretty easily imo. 50 more yards on 20 less targets and a whopping 1.6 ypc more. That with fajardo ick.  I’d take Hollins over him too. 
 
Realistically for any one to surpass white, lawler, schoen, and hatcher is gonna be real hard. 
 Lawler in 18 games would’ve been on track for 1351 yards 9 tds which would’ve been first and second league wide. Roadhouse missed 2 and barely missed out on yards. 
 

hollins bane Mack hardy snead and Coxie are all young guys in the second tier. You have vets looking to bounce back to form in guys like Lewis next year too. If any one in that group is gonna step up to the top tier imo it’s coxie if he isn’t nfl bound or Mack. 

wbbfan Grand Master

wbbfan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Pepper_Brooks said:

Wasn't that proven to be a bit exaggerated? They simply ended their practice with a ceremonial QB kneel, just like many other teams have done. It's excellent for stirring up social media rage, but it doesn't truly reflect the team's attitude or sense of entitlement.

What other teams practice victory formation? I haven’t heard that it was just the last play but that they repeatedly practiced any play in their book.  
 The cats entitlement reflected the victory formation not the other way around. Brandon banks and some of the biggest cry babies of the era on that team. Simoni Lawrence ring a bell? Don Jackson evans Wynn role they had all the bad character you could want. 

GCn20 Grand Master

GCn20

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Mack is better than bane pretty easily imo. 50 more yards on 20 less targets and a whopping 1.6 ypc more. That with fajardo ick.  I’d take Hollins over him too. 
 
Realistically for any one to surpass white, lawler, schoen, and hatcher is gonna be real hard. 
 Lawler in 18 games would’ve been on track for 1351 yards 9 tds which would’ve been first and second league wide. Roadhouse missed 2 and barely missed out on yards. 
 

hollins bane Mack hardy snead and Coxie are all young guys in the second tier. You have vets looking to bounce back to form in guys like Lewis next year too. If any one in that group is gonna step up to the top tier imo it’s coxie if he isn’t nfl bound or Mack. 

To be an upper echelon receiver in this league you have to produce in victory just as much as you produce in garbage time. Sure garbage time will always pad everyone's stats, but Lawler's 900 yards is WAAAAAAY more impressive than Bane's 1100 imo. Crap for most of the season we barely threw the ball in the 2nd half let alone the luxury of padding the stats in garbage time.

Booch Grand Master

Booch

Posted
Posted
Just now, GCn20 said:

To be an upper echelon receiver in this league you have to produce in victory just as much as you produce in garbage time. Sure garbage time will always pad everyone's stats, but Lawler's 900 yards is WAAAAAAY more impressive than Bane's 1100 imo. Crap for most of the season we barely threw the ball in the 2nd half let alone the luxury of padding the stats in garbage time.

Lawler is the best receiver in the league bar none....clutch grabs in big games....and tough catches too....Plus he does the dirty work for others as well and for a guy who isn't exceptionally large, he is tough to bring down...and fights as hard as anyone

Schoen is right there, but to me isn't as complete as Lawler.....and this yr has had some questionable, dare I say bad drops.....Thus reason why I also don't see him pulling in Lawler money next yr, he will be in top 10 somewhere obviously...but not top

Lawler just brings that lil extra that not many in this league over last lil while has

Bigblue204 Grand Master

Bigblue204

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

What other teams practice victory formation? I haven’t heard that it was just the last play but that they repeatedly practiced any play in their book.  
 The cats entitlement reflected the victory formation not the other way around. Brandon banks and some of the biggest cry babies of the era on that team. Simoni Lawrence ring a bell? Don Jackson evans Wynn role they had all the bad character you could want. 

Apparently they finished every practice with victory formation, not just the ones in the week to GC. It's something they were doing since TC.

Pepper_Brooks Proficient

Pepper_Brooks

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

What other teams practice victory formation? I haven’t heard that it was just the last play but that they repeatedly practiced any play in their book.  
 The cats entitlement reflected the victory formation not the other way around. Brandon banks and some of the biggest cry babies of the era on that team. Simoni Lawrence ring a bell? Don Jackson evans Wynn role they had all the bad character you could want. 

TSN

It appears they're still ending practice like that. Wrapping up with a winner's mindset, well, that's simply the nature of sports. I'm not a fan of the Ticats or their seasoned jerk players like Lawrence, but y'all read too deeply into the whole "practicing the victory formation" social media rage bait narrative.

Jpan85 Grand Master

Jpan85

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, bluto said:

Rich Stubler was a top tier DC who failed as a HC and then after a change of scenery had a second act as a very effective DC.

Richie Hall was a top tier DC who failed as a HC and then after a change in scenery had a second act as a very effective DC.

ORlondo Steinauer was a top tier DC who has failed as a HC...

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Failing is bit much. He has not gotten the final job done. But he is a hell of a football coach and a couple of breaks go his way he has a ring.

bluto Mentor

bluto

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

Failing is bit much. He has not gotten the final job done. But he is a hell of a football coach and a couple of breaks go his way he has a ring.

If O'Shea left, would you have him?

Booch Grand Master

Booch

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jpan85 said:

Definitely, they are cut from the same cloth.

I would take him yup.....And be happy knowing I would not have to deal with frustration over roster mis-use

 

1 hour ago, Dr Zaius said:

Maas - no
Dyce -no
Chris Jones - no
Dave Dickenson - maaaayybeee, probably not. 
Steinhauer - yes
Campbell - yes
 

God no....he is not a guy I want....He has issues with discipline on his team often.....plus he is too punchinthefaceable

wbbfan Grand Master

wbbfan

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, GCn20 said:

To be an upper echelon receiver in this league you have to produce in victory just as much as you produce in garbage time. Sure garbage time will always pad everyone's stats, but Lawler's 900 yards is WAAAAAAY more impressive than Bane's 1100 imo. Crap for most of the season we barely threw the ball in the 2nd half let alone the luxury of padding the stats in garbage time.

Agree 100%. 
 

2 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Definitely, they are cut from the same cloth.

I’d love to see them coach together again. They are soo on the same wave length it’s freaky. Buck might be in the closest thing in an offensive coach too. 
 

If most left buck would get the shot a million percent. I don’t think he’s ready for it yet. But who knows pressure makes diamonds. 
 My ranking of replacements would be coach o, then walters if we could get Ringmaiden back in walters role, then a pick ‘em of Ryan Phillips, monsoon maybe killiam, Washington, Mace, Miles, and buck.  Each of those guys have strengths and weaknesses some have higher upside but are really raw others have less and more polish. It would depend on how they want to run things. 
 I expect a good 80% of those guys will have a hc gig here in the next 10 years and maybe 2 or 3 at best will develop into quality hcs. Buck has the inside track. I really like Washington miles and maces upside. 
 I actually think jy has that potential and could rise quickly. Bourgoin and Stanley do as well but they are much further behind in terms of polish. And ol coaches never get love, poor Costello. 

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