CFL - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Bigblue204]

Apparently the team that uses the most true nationalists get an extra pick a the end of the 2nd round.

[Booch]

21 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Knowing the rule is one thing, maximizing it is another. Love me some Mike O’Shea,  but his roster usage has been puzzling at times.

exactly....very odd at times...almost seems like some stubborn bias he is harboring...who knows...we just lucky we had the talent and locker room attitude to overcome some of it

Some aren't saying he doesn't know the new rule...or won't learn it...But I have my doubts he will maximize it's use like prob 99% of the other teams...cause thats just how he is...He will yammer on that all the guys are starters....we will run out our players like usual....see no need to do that as our Canadians are all starter material...etc...etc....Like he always does, and I bet that in a game or 2 we will have a chance to capitolize on it's use...but he won't...cause he is Mike Oshea...and we will eat a loss

Dont get me wrong.....love Osh and what he built here...but I have complained about his roster management and over sight in areas....for yrs...his one fault

[Bigblue204]

I don't get the complaining about his roster usage. It's not like he'd roster a import WR for a couple weeks.... just to have him never see the field at all, not even special teams....That's not the MOS I know!

[Jesse]

23 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Knowing the rule is one thing, maximizing it is another. Love me some Mike O’Shea,  but his roster usage has been puzzling at times.

This is kind of how I meant it.

I remember O'Shea taking advantage of loop holes and trickery in his Toronto days and beginning years with us. We haven't seen a whole lot of it lately, but obviously he knows the rules forwards and backwards.

IMO, for better or worse, MOS values special teams as equally as O and D. This leads to roster decisions that sees several back-up LBs instead of depth at :more important positions" that leaves our heads scratching. People have also screamed about his loyalty in the past, but I think that's more that he respects his players as a whole, rather than just potential production. His start/sit decisions considers the leadership qualities, film room preparedness, etc. that we just don't see.

Now, believing all that as I do, do I think that MOS is going to seat a guy like Woli to get extra snaps of McCrae on the field? Ehhhhh....

[Booch]

7 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I don't get the complaining about his roster usage. It's not like he'd roster a import WR for a couple weeks.... just to have him never see the field at all, not even special teams....That's not the MOS I know!

that was a real baffling one....

[GCn20]

50 minutes ago, Booch said:

that was a real baffling one....

What's so baffling about it. Getting the guy a couple game checks because he probably worked his arse off. You and I both know that roster management is a tool, one of the best tools, to help develop culture. Guys who are FIFO, and work hard, occasionally get rewarded by seeing the field or the roster when guys on the outside like us don't understand it because we are not viewing it through the wide angle lens that MOS has to do. If you ask guys to commit, and work their arse off, and don't at least occasionally offer reward for it then you get a culture like the BC Lions where guys start dogging it. THIS is what Kongbo was talking about. He was, or felt he was, working the hardest and was not given the opportunity for more reps even. On a MOS team you work your tail off and even if you are not number one on the depth chart he will try work you in for your effort. For the fans it's black and white, player X is better than player Y, but we don't get to see that player X might have been half assing it while player Y went above and beyond. These are factors in a coaches roster management decision and when you value effort and reward it the culture becomes a good one by default. It permeates through the dressing room.

Edited June 8, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

yeah they can be...but in said game we had an import receiver go down....and he still didnt get to see the field....that was the baffling part of it, and I know full well guys can get rewarded for putting in the effort...thats how guys surpass others...but also....to waste a roster spot in a game...basically for nothing and possible detriment to the outcome...is ...well stupid and so not neccessary

[GCn20]

58 minutes ago, Jesse said:

This is kind of how I meant it.

I remember O'Shea taking advantage of loop holes and trickery in his Toronto days and beginning years with us. We haven't seen a whole lot of it lately, but obviously he knows the rules forwards and backwards.

IMO, for better or worse, MOS values special teams as equally as O and D. This leads to roster decisions that sees several back-up LBs instead of depth at :more important positions" that leaves our heads scratching. People have also screamed about his loyalty in the past, but I think that's more that he respects his players as a whole, rather than just potential production. His start/sit decisions considers the leadership qualities, film room preparedness, etc. that we just don't see.

Now, believing all that as I do, do I think that MOS is going to seat a guy like Woli to get extra snaps of McCrae on the field? Ehhhhh....

If he does it is because McCrae jumped off the page with his effort all week. MOS gives snaps to guys that we shake our head at, but I guarantee the players understand it. They know this guy is getting rewarded for working his arse off, and trust me when MOS does something like that the next week 5 more guys bust their ass harder to try earn those reps too.  With the starters, that can come down to the looks and playcalls they love coming their way. Biggie busts a nut all week, give him a couple blitzes to show appreciation for that effort, Bailey is an unsung hero for 4 games give him a game where 5 balls come his way. Locker rooms aren't easy to manage and when guys think their work is being ignored they can check out on you. Just ask Kongbo.

Edited June 8, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

if guys aren't busting their ass off day in and day out...they should be cut....plain and simple....getting a "reward" for trying super hard, at the expense of a player who had use on the roster...is a stupid as stupid thing you could do....and can work in reverse and cause at times opposite reaction from players....no matter how tight a room is....players...especially vets dont like coaches playing "favorites"...seen it first hand....you may not hear about it...or see it...but the rumblings and underlaying player reaction is there

[Jesse]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

If he does it is because McCrae jumped off the page with his effort all week. MOS gives snaps to guys that we shake our head at, but I guarantee the players understand it. They know this guy is getting rewarded for working his arse off, and trust me when MOS does something like that the next week 5 more guys bust their ass harder to try earn those reps too.  With the starters, that can come down to the looks and playcalls they love coming their way. Biggie busts a nut all week, give him a couple blitzes to show appreciation for that effort, Bailey is an unsung hero for 4 games give him a game where 5 balls come his way. Locker rooms aren't easy to manage and when guys think their work is being ignored they can check out on you. Just ask Kongbo.

Exactly. 

So do I believe he's going to fully maximize these new rules or is going to continue to manage the roster as he always has based on his own set of factors?

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah they can be...but in said game we had an import receiver go down....and he still didnt get to see the field....that was the baffling part of it, and I know full well guys can get rewarded for putting in the effort...thats how guys surpass others...but also....to waste a roster spot in a game...basically for nothing and possible detriment to the outcome...is ...well stupid and so not neccessary

Is it wasting a roster spot if he busted his nut all year and was being rewarded with a game cheque. Obviously he was not ready for any reps yet, but it's quite possible that his receiver group might even have went to MOS and told him you gotta get that guy on the roster for a game. He's busting his nuts for us.

[Booch]

and the way this team is constructed...and self policed....every player is busting their ass....regardless of roster status...or they would be in house addressed...and or cut

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

Is it wasting a roster spot if he busted his nut all year and was being rewarded with a game cheque. Obviously he was not ready for any reps yet, but it's quite possible that his receiver group might even have went to MOS and told him you gotta get that guy on the roster for a game. He's busting his nuts for us.

he was here all yr...if he wasnt ready for a game...then wtf was he still even here for then?....that logic makes no sense to me

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

if guys aren't busting their ass off day in and day out...they should be cut....plain and simple....getting a "reward" for trying super hard, at the expense of a player who had use on the roster...is a stupid as stupid thing you could do....and can work in reverse and cause at times opposite reaction from players....no matter how tight a room is....players...especially vets dont like coaches playing "favorites"...seen it first hand....you may not hear about it...or see it...but the rumblings and underlaying player reaction is there

There are guys who go above and beyond the norm even at the pro level and rostering a guy for a game that does so is not going to break a locker room. Ever. Unless you have a locker room of selfish players.

1 minute ago, Booch said:

and the way this team is constructed...and self policed....every player is busting their ass....regardless of roster status...or they would be in house addressed...and or cut

he was here all yr...if he wasnt ready for a game...then wtf was he still even here for then?....that logic makes no sense to me

I shouldn't say not ready for the game, just not the first guy off the bench. Is it so crazy that we dressed him but he wasn't our first pick to go in just because he an IMP label? 

[Jpan85]

He can’t hear you with his two grey cup rings in his ears

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, Booch said:

and the way this team is constructed...and self policed....every player is busting their ass....regardless of roster status...or they would be in house addressed...and or cut

he was here all yr...if he wasnt ready for a game...then wtf was he still even here for then?....that logic makes no sense to me

I don't give a crap how good your locker room is policed, if there is no incentive for hard work you will lose guys and culture along with it. Yes, guys in our locker room are busting their ass, and yes our team leaders keep their feet on the gas pedal but at the end of the day if you reward a player, just once, for having a week where he didn't give it 100 then you will begin the process of losing your room. Culture matters. The Bomber locker room is better than any at self motivating but they are not infallible. That is when the roster management is another tool to use.

Edited June 8, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

There are guys who go above and beyond the norm even at the pro level and rostering a guy for a game that does so is not going to break a locker room. Ever. Unless you have a locker room of selfish players.

teams I have been on....guys busted nuts...and went above and beyond daily...thats your job...guys who didnt...got weeded out and released...I can see your narrative and reasoning...and sure that scenario...but I doubt that happens when season is still in balance....maybe end of yr yeah when the standings are set.

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

I don't give a crap how good your locker room is policed, if there is no incentive for hard work you will lose guys and culture along with it.

you work hard as it is your job...and if the player ahead of you is hurt, and you need to step in and be the next man up you are prepared and ready......anything less is a ticket outta town....

[JuranBoldenRules]

17 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

What's so baffling about it. Getting the guy a couple game checks because he probably worked his arse off. You and I both know that roster management is a tool, one of the best tools, to help develop culture. Guys who are FIFO, and work hard, occasionally get rewarded by seeing the field or the roster when guys on the outside like us don't understand it because we are not viewing it through the wide angle lens that MOS has to do. If you ask guys to commit, and work their arse off, and don't at least occasionally offer reward for it then you get a culture like the BC Lions where guys start dogging it. THIS is what Kongbo was talking about. He was, or felt he was, working the hardest and was not given the opportunity for more reps even. On a MOS team you work your tail off and even if you are not number one on the depth chart he will try work you in for your effort. For the fans it's black and white, player X is better than player Y, but we don't get to see that player X might have been half assing it while player Y went above and beyond. These are factors in a coaches roster management decision and when you value effort and reward it the culture becomes a good one by default. It permeates through the dressing room.

I think it’s just a matter of being a small roster.

Dress a guy who barely even plays teams at a position to you’re stacked or dress a player say on the DL or secondary where the player can actually play a role.

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

teams I have been on....guys busted nuts...and went above and beyond daily...thats your job...guys who didnt...got weeded out and released...I can see your narrative and reasoning...and sure that scenario...but I doubt that happens when season is still in balance....maybe end of yr yeah when the standings are set.

Ok fair enough. Just making a point that there are more factors to roster management than meets the eye of the fans. Sure MOS has also made some head scratching moves as well, but a lot of what we consider to be crazy is not viewed through a wider lens.

[WBBFanWest]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Ok fair enough. Just making a point that there are more factors to roster management than meets the eye of the fans. Sure MOS has also made some head scratching moves as well, but a lot of what we consider to be crazy is not viewed through a wider lens.

or... sometimes people can be really good at most parts of their jobs, and not so good at one specific portion of it.  

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I think it’s just a matter of being a small roster.

Dress a guy who barely even plays teams at a position to you’re stacked or dress a player say on the DL or secondary where the player can actually play a role.

Roster size comes into play for sure. Also, these are human beings and who knows maybe this guy has a big bill coming in and his PR money ain't going to cover it and his team mates approach the coach saying get him a game cheque he really needs it. We don't know. So many reasons why MOS might make a curious move and without all the info all we get to do is a black and white evaluation and nothing is ever black and white.

2 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

or... sometimes people can be really good at most parts of their jobs, and not so good at one specific portion of it.  

Yea...sure. It's not his strongest point. However, talk earlier in this thread by some was that he was so bad at it that Bomber fans were on the verge of turning on him. That's overstating it dramatically.

Edited June 8, 2023 by GCn20

[Stickem]

Some real good points being made here.......in the end it's all to do with FIFO......and that is the glue that holds everything together on this club and Mike O is the chief 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Knowing the rule is one thing, maximizing it is another. Love me some Mike O’Shea,  but his roster usage has been puzzling at times.

You misspelled "putrid".

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

You misspelled "putrid".

Easy. It has not been putrid. C'mon.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

22 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Easy. It has not been putrid. C'mon.

His roster management has been putrid. 

Every superhero has a weakness- roster management is O'shea's kryptonite. 

[Mike]

29 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Easy. It has not been putrid. C'mon.

It really has been. And just like I hinted at yesterday, the depth chart came out and he’s making absolutely no effective use of this new rule at all.

The roster management has been awful and the talent has carried us. I like O’Shea a lot, but his roster decisions leave more than just a little bit to be desired.