CFL - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[HardCoreBlue]

Here’s a random question thrown out to the worldwide web:

Whatever happened to two back formations? Scat back and full back duo? The i formation, split back etc?  Gone the way of the dodo bird?

[Tracker]

Just now, HardCoreBlue said:

Here’s a random question thrown out to the worldwide web:

Whatever happened to two back formations? Scat back and full back duo? The i formation, split back etc?  Gone the way of the dodo bird?

Yes, until a smart coach with the right players revives it and wins a lot of games. Then it will be in fashion again.

[JuranBoldenRules]

6 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Here’s a random question thrown out to the worldwide web:

Whatever happened to two back formations? Scat back and full back duo? The i formation, split back etc?  Gone the way of the dodo bird?

At all levels teams hardly play under centre so usually have a tailback and blocking/receiving back or 5 receivers.

With the QB starting 3 or 5 yards off that’s really too deep for I with two backs.  We have a split back formation and some wing back stuff with motion where we get the ball to more of a “fullback” at the high school level but it’s all misdirection stuff and not really down hill.  In my opinion you’ll only see multiple backs from teams that are run heavy with a running QB.  Otherwise you want to spread out the D.

On 2023-09-09 at 8:29 AM, GCn20 said:

I am hoping that Hamilton is eliminated from playoff contention soon so we can swoop in and make a trade for Kongbo. I think he is another guy that would really like to come home like Lawler.

Hamilton is pretty firmly in 3rd in the East.  They’ve got a two game lead on the crossover with 1 game in hand.  Ottawa is basically done.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

At all levels teams hardly play under centre so usually have a tailback and blocking/receiving back or 5 receivers.

With the QB starting 3 or 5 yards off that’s really too deep for I with two backs.  We have a split back formation and some wing back stuff with motion where we get the ball to more of a “fullback” at the high school level but it’s all misdirection stuff and not really down hill.  In my opinion you’ll only see multiple backs from teams that are run heavy with a running QB.  Otherwise you want to spread out the D.

Hamilton is pretty firmly in 3rd in the East.  They’ve got a two game lead on the crossover with 1 game in hand.  Ottawa is basically done.

So.. Mauldin is in play?

[BigBlueFanatic]

3 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

So.. Mauldin is in play?

Omg if we have the cap space you don’t not try for Mauldin.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Here’s a random question thrown out to the worldwide web:

Whatever happened to two back formations? Scat back and full back duo? The i formation, split back etc?  Gone the way of the dodo bird?

Simple answer is that football evolves & changes. During the Bud Grant era when they won 4 Grey Cups in 5 years, he used 3 running backs including two fullbacks at times. The Bomber passing game consisted of two receivers... Farrell Funston & Ernie Pitts. Today, with the sophisticated passing game in the CFL employed by all teams, we don't have a TE or 3 backs. Instead we have 3 more receivers. 

[Noeller]

 

 

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

 

 

Well, that ought to turn the season around for the Larks.

[wbbfan]

7 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Here’s a random question thrown out to the worldwide web:

Whatever happened to two back formations? Scat back and full back duo? The i formation, split back etc?  Gone the way of the dodo bird?

the tldr to a long and for some boring post is that innovation came to the spread to pass and spread to run offence. It didn’t come to fb. These offences found ways to take tacklers out of the equation while allowing for more of an offensive threat with more creative twists
 

 

 A lot happened over 20 ish years that killed the fb, 2 back pro form offence. 
 In the 70s the first wave of spread offence innovators started to have great success. First at hs then college and the nfl. From mouse davis to bill Walsh. These guys had their first batch of disciples take power in the 80s, and saw the most successful nfl version in the 49ers. 
In the cfl, when don Mathew’s was playing a lot of cover 0 teams at first tried to counter with going heavier with double tight sets. But then real success came with 5 and 6 wr spread sets and just getting the ball out quickly. 
 At that point the fb was already becoming rarer. The west coast possession passing offence that the nfl hadn’t embraced beyond a few coaches had flourished in colleges. That created a plethora of highly accomplished QBs with no pro path other than the cfl. 
 Mean while at the college level talented athletic big guys made bigger impacts at other positions and wanted to play those positions with better pro futures. So the talent pool at fb fell, while wr talent pools stayed pretty high. 
QBs became more and more athletic, which makes pistol and shot gun even more viable. The on set of pistol greatly reduced the wild snaps to the qb. 
In the late 90s the zone run scheme had the same explosion in disciples as the spread had in college and hs in the 70s and 80s. 
 Teams who wanted to dominate with the run found it easier to run fewer big bodies  the defence has to have more db types to cover more WRs who aren’t likely to beat a block and make a tackle one on one with a rb. A full time fb just means a db is off for a lber and that’s an extra guy in the box playing the back field. 
 The spread to run concept and the flex 11/21 packages with pass catching tes put two guys on the field in place of the fb. Kr types who could be schemed in to run and catch out of the slot while running jet motion, and big guys who can block down but can also run and catch and be hard to tackle for dbs. 
 All while the fb position stayed stagnant. 
the two rb sets were replaced with motion. A wr on jet motion before the snap or at the snap is harder to defend and opens more gaps plus demands a contain guy on the edge.
This and mobile QBs created ways to take a tackler out of the equation.
 With the size of the field in the cfl it was always much more suited to the extra passing threat especially stretching the field side line to sideline. Even more so now with the hash mark move. 
 Though teams have become soo homogenous that they we now see the bombers running two extra ol and a fb while defences just done have the depth and talent to counter that with. Funnily enough last year was the first time the nfl saw an increase in fb use in over a decade too.  

 

 

 

4 hours ago, BigBlueFanatic said:

Omg if we have the cap space you don’t not try for Mauldin.

Idk great talent but with Habba sitting on the pr that’s a big spend to get his rights. 
If we were gonna spend those assets we should go get a big dt. 

[bluto]

20 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

At all levels teams hardly play under centre so usually have a tailback and blocking/receiving back or 5 receivers.

With the QB starting 3 or 5 yards off that’s really too deep for I with two backs.  We have a split back formation and some wing back stuff with motion where we get the ball to more of a “fullback” at the high school level but it’s all misdirection stuff and not really down hill.  In my opinion you’ll only see multiple backs from teams that are run heavy with a running QB.  Otherwise you want to spread out the D.

Hamilton is pretty firmly in 3rd in the East.  They’ve got a two game lead on the crossover with 1 game in hand.  Ottawa is basically done.

Firmly in 3rd may not be enough. Their schedule for the run-in is Toronto and The West. 

[Mark H.]

2 minutes ago, bluto said:

Firmly in 3rd may not be enough. Their schedule for the run-in is Toronto and The West. 

The West has about 1.5 consistent teams.

[bearpants]

1 hour ago, bluto said:

Firmly in 3rd may not be enough. Their schedule for the run-in is Toronto and The West. 

based specifically on the 2022 season... Playing in Hamilton before a bye is not necessarily going to be an easy win for the Blue and Gold

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, bearpants said:

based specifically on the 2022 season... Playing in Hamilton before a bye is not necessarily going to be an easy win for the Blue and Gold

hopefully this game will be the true indicator where we are at....no more having to use an excuse that it was an anomaly, or brain fart, whatever our reasoning was for previous duds...if we fall flat on face again and lose, then we should be somewhat concerned as that will have happened too many times for us to be considered a power like we were....should be no reason for a dud this week, especially with a big couple games coming up after the bye....

[bluto]

Bombers need to take care of business this week. The TiCats know that Montreal may suffer a loss again and that a win pulls them even in second.

[GCn20]

22 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

At all levels teams hardly play under centre so usually have a tailback and blocking/receiving back or 5 receivers.

With the QB starting 3 or 5 yards off that’s really too deep for I with two backs.  We have a split back formation and some wing back stuff with motion where we get the ball to more of a “fullback” at the high school level but it’s all misdirection stuff and not really down hill.  In my opinion you’ll only see multiple backs from teams that are run heavy with a running QB.  Otherwise you want to spread out the D.

Hamilton is pretty firmly in 3rd in the East.  They’ve got a two game lead on the crossover with 1 game in hand.  Ottawa is basically done.

Yea..I was expecting a Calgary win this week. Guess not.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, bluto said:

Firmly in 3rd may not be enough. Their schedule for the run-in is Toronto and The West. 

Ottawa probably has 3 winnable games left but I don’t think they’ll get 3 wins over the rest.

Calgary could win or lose every single game they have but probably need to win 4.

[Booch]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

Ottawa probably has 3 winnable games left but I don’t think they’ll get 3 wins over the rest.

Calgary could win or lose every single game they have but probably need to win 4.

Sask has a pretty easy sched too....hopefully it allows them to "seem" on the right path and they keep the whole regime from top to bottom.....GM....Dicklesson...that lame OC...Dolegala....that would be awesome

[wbbfan]

46 minutes ago, bluto said:

Bombers need to take care of business this week. The TiCats know that Montreal may suffer a loss again and that a win pulls them even in second.

After we dropped 45 on ssk we followed that up with the beat down by bc. After the beat down on bc we had Zach knocked out vs edm in a game we struggled with a lot till brown put up a massive performance. We dropped 47 on the ALs then lost the ldc. 
the exception this year was week 1 we put 42 on the cats to win by 9, in a game blm looked horrid in. Then followed that up with the 45 on ssk when Harris put up the shallowest 414 3 and 0 while losing by 18. 
 

It’s always tough to follow that kind of offensive success the next week. We always seem to struggle a little extra with the game after we blow some one out even more. 
 Going into the 8th week since our only bye with the biggest game of the regular season, rematch vs tor some guys could be a little flat vs ham too. 
 I expect Hamilton to be juiced up to play us, as they have been each time since 19 gc. That said, I expect us to wake up and grind out a tough gritty character win. 

[wbbfan]

If there is ever a time to catch the bombers, when you clearly do not want to play us at home after we lost, it’s on the road in the east right before a bye and after we blow some one out. 
 Last year we lost the streak to mtl at home before a bye though in a back to back, then we lost again in Hamilton before another bye. Then losing at bc before the final bye though after clinching the wf. 
 

Edited September 11, 2023 by wbbfan

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, bluto said:

Bombers need to take care of business this week. The TiCats know that Montreal may suffer a loss again and that a win pulls them even in second.

As bad as the TiCats are, the Larks are trending downward and it has become glaringly obvious that Fajardo is not the answer, in spite of the beatings he has taken. Just a question of time before he gets injured again and gone for the year.

[Booch]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

If there is ever a time to catch the bombers, when you clearly do not want to play us at home after we lost, it’s on the road in the east right before a bye and after we blow some one out. 
 Last year we lost the streak to mtl at home before a bye though in a back to back, then we lost again in Hamilton before another bye. Then losing at bc before the final bye though after clinching the wf. 
 

thats why to me this game is the true indicator of what we are, and have....another putrid performance will be very telling, and should be a red flag that in it's current make-up it will be hard pressed to win the Cup...as its way to inconsistent...also will need to be a team that secures first with hope getting there, because winning 2 to get there will be a tall order this yr based on what we have seen...this team isnt the 2019 team on a mission and striving to improve week in and week out....seems at times they feel like they dont have to prove anything and put in the real work, rather just need to show up 

1 minute ago, Tracker said:

As bad as the TiCats are, the Larks are trending downward and it has become glaringly obvious that Fajardo is not the answer, in spite of the beatings he has taken. Just a question of time before he gets injured again and gone for the year.

which would prob be best thing for the Als....guy is nit a guy to carry a team over the finish line...never has...and this point never will be...He is the ultimate back-up short yardage guy...guy who can come in for situational play, and finish out a game due to injury and give you at least some chance...but a full time guy to hitch the wagon to?...hell no

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

thats why to me this game is the true indicator of what we are, and have....another putrid performance will be very telling, and should be a red flag that in it's current make-up it will be hard pressed to win the Cup...as its way to inconsistent...also will need to be a team that secures first with hope getting there, because winning 2 to get there will be a tall order this yr based on what we have seen...this team isnt the 2019 team on a mission and striving to improve week in and week out....seems at times they feel like they dont have to prove anything and put in the real work, rather just need to show up 

which would prob be best thing for the Als....guy is nit a guy to carry a team over the finish line...never has...and this point never will be...He is the ultimate back-up short yardage guy...guy who can come in for situational play, and finish out a game due to injury and give you at least some chance...but a full time guy to hitch the wagon to?...hell no

I can agree with all of that. Focus and inconsistency have been problems at times this year. Time to get that shored up in the final third.

[Noeller]

Yeah, the Bombers have been maddeningly inconsistent this year and it's why I'm hesitant to expect them to win any game they play, no matter how poor the opponent. They're world beaters one week, and then off the rails the next. What I do know is, when the offense is clicking and staying on the field, the defense can be one of the best in the league, if not THE best. But they need to be in sync.... offense stays on the field for stretches, and the defense gets itself off the field. When they're on, nobody in the CFL is better.  But man, you just don't know who's going to show up each week.

[Tracker]

6 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Yeah, the Bombers have been maddeningly inconsistent this year and it's why I'm hesitant to expect them to win any game they play, no matter how poor the opponent. They're world beaters one week, and then off the rails the next. What I do know is, when the offense is clicking and staying on the field, the defense can be one of the best in the league, if not THE best. But they need to be in sync.... offense stays on the field for stretches, and the defense gets itself off the field. When they're on, nobody in the CFL is better.  But man, you just don't know who's going to show up each week.

The problem with the inconsistency the Bombers have shown on occasion this year is that the potential is there for them to drop a deuce in the playoffs. That concerns me. If its just one player or one aspect of the game, the other parts can compensate. When the whole team takes the day off on the wrong day, the season is over.

[Noeller]

5 minutes ago, Tracker said:

The problem with the inconsistency the Bombers have shown on occasion this year is that the potential is there for them to drop a deuce in the playoffs. That concerns me. If its just one player or one aspect of the game, the other parts can compensate. When the whole team takes the day off on the wrong day, the season is over.

I feel the exact same way, but what keeps my hopes up is that they almost always come out fired up "when it matters", and I can't even imagine an Osh-led team not being "run-through-a-wall" fired up for a playoff game. When there's only 2 (3 max) of them, they'll be fired up and ready.  It's harder to be mentally excited, even as a pro athlete, in the midst of an 18 game sched. When you know that it's only 2 or 3 games, you can be fully mentally prepared, I think.