Blue Bombers - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Yes, that's actually quite noticeable,  ZC rolls out, but the DE is already there.

Theres other ways to move the pocket and not depend soley on the tackle...everything for most part seem just a bit out of sync for good parts of the game....will that go away now with everyone on offence back....guess we will see

I think a lot of the oline issues tho are way overblown....I truly believe the switch at center will go a long way in making a difference...Commend Kolo for filling in and being adequate and holding down the fort...but he is not a topline center, never was...and never was gonna be.....Time to get the future in there...and grow into the role....

[Bubba Zanetti]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Run blocking? Our numbers are virtually identical to last year in rushing yards, YPC, and YPG. Therefore, I will categorically deny that. Also, our passing numbers are up almost across the board this year. We have surrendered a lot of sacks compared to years past but that isn't always the best indicator of overall pass pro. Or at least shouldn't be viewed as a stand alone statistic. If the passing numbers show no real discernable difference, then it is just a matter of isolated plays and not an over all performance issue.  I agree we gotta get those sack numbers down tho but it really isn't having a dramatic effect on our offensive efficiency. Could very well be that ZC has decided to eat a lot more ball this year and take the sack trying to extend plays. 

The sack numbers look right. I hesitate to look at them in iso though. Our overall pressures could still be relatively the same just with a worse outcome than years past. Its time for Zach to start chucking more into the 2nd row and see if that gets it in line.

I would love to see QB pressure stats because Collaros is having much less time in the pocket as years past, as per the eye test, which is leading him to throw early/force throws at times(hello Ottawa 4th quarter pick-6). Also, if runs for no gain/negative yards could be found i would wager Oliveira is likely nearing his last seasons totals already. If you take out the 4th quarter last game he probably had like 20 yards on the ground. We gouged them in the 4th because they were gassed. The majority of Oliveira's yardage has been from late in games this season. I'd rather not wait until the 4th for our running game to get going, thats the type of thing that will make you one-dimensional. The run game push from the o-line has been largely non-existent this season for large chunks of games. You can argue the stats seem the same, but the eye test is very much different from previous seasons. The o-line needs to sack-up. If they dont it could be just a matter of time until something happens to Zach and/or teams make Oliveira a non-factor.

[GCn20]

7 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

I would love to see QB pressure stats because Collaros is having much less time in the pocket as years past, as per the eye test, which is leading him to throw early/force throws at times(hello Ottawa 4th quarter pick-6). Also, if runs for no gain/negative yards could be found i would wager Oliveira is likely nearing his last seasons totals already. If you take out the 4th quarter last game he probably had like 20 yards on the ground. We gouged them in the 4th because they were gassed. The majority of Oliveira's yardage has been from late in games this season. I'd rather not wait until the 4th for our running game to get going, thats the type of thing that will make you one-dimensional. The run game push from the o-line has been largely non-existent this season for large chunks of games. You can argue the stats seem the same, but the eye test is very much different from previous seasons. The o-line needs to sack-up. If they dont it could be just a matter of time until something happens to Zach and/or teams make Oliveira a non-factor.

We have been a 4th Q rushing team since Andrew Harris came here. We have always piled on our rushing totals in the 4th. The facts just don't bear you out on this. Sorry. Look at our production by Q the last several years in the rushing game. Big jump in the 4th. There is nothing wrong at all with our rushing game. I swear people think that if Brady O doesn't run for 7 yards a gain in every Q that there is a problem. That's unrealistic.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Bubba Zanetti]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

We have been a 4th Q rushing team since Andrew Harris came here. We have always piled on our rushing totals in the 4th. The facts just don't bear you out on this. Sorry. Look at our production by Q the last several years in the rushing game. Big jump in the 4th.

Andrew Harris was not just a 4th quarter performer lol. And ofcourse our previous seasons' 4th quarters were huge, we were s**t stomping teams and up by multiple scores going into the 4th so we could just run the ball and salt away a lot of games. This year games have been much tighter and we need that running game earlier to keep teams honest and not pin their ears back and focus solely on Zach. Theres a direct correlation between lack of run game/lack of passing success. Its likely why games against the Montreals, and Ottawas, and Edmontons have been so close for so long. An effective run game opens up the pass. Its written in stone.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Bubba Zanetti

[17to85]

They used a lot of Eli in the 4th quarter when the run game took over. I believe they had extra OL in but perhaps if the guy is good enough to make that much difference he should get more reps. 

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Andrew Harris was not just a 4th quarter performer lol. And ofcourse our previous seasons' 4th quarters were huge, we were s**t stomping teams and up by multiple scores going into the 4th so we could just run the ball and salt away a lot of games. This year games have been much tighter and we need that running game earlier to keep teams honest and not pin their ears back and focus solely on Zach.

Thing is that games haven't been all that tight really. We have won each of our games by a margin of over 10 points. Yes, we lost two games and it wasn't pretty but I would not chalk that up to our running game. Over the past 2-3 years we have had a ton of games where the score was just a handful of points at the half. Then we begin to pull away in the 3rd, and then completely throttle TOP in the 4th Q. This has literally been our MO for years. I am really not sure where the concern comes from in that regard. We can use some better play along the OL down the stretch for sure, but it has still been at a very high level. I think past years have set our expectations up way too high. We are still the best, or at worst top 2 OLs in this league.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Doublezero]

15 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

I would love to see QB pressure stats because Collaros is having much less time in the pocket as years past, as per the eye test, which is leading him to throw early/force throws at times(hello Ottawa 4th quarter pick-6). Also, if runs for no gain/negative yards could be found i would wager Oliveira is likely nearing his last seasons totals already. If you take out the 4th quarter last game he probably had like 20 yards on the ground. We gouged them in the 4th because they were gassed. The majority of Oliveira's yardage has been from late in games this season. I'd rather not wait until the 4th for our running game to get going, thats the type of thing that will make you one-dimensional. The run game push from the o-line has been largely non-existent this season for large chunks of games. You can argue the stats seem the same, but the eye test is very much different from previous seasons. The o-line needs to sack-up. If they dont it could be just a matter of time until something happens to Zach and/or teams make Oliveira a non-factor.

I agree with this. One reason for the seeming Q4 success is because FB Damian Jackson was in as an extra blocker for some plays in the 4th Q vs Hamilton - evidence the braintrust believed the O-line could use a little pass pro and run block help at that point. Same way Bombers used LB Wade Miller to clear traffic on offence back in the day. 

[GCn20]

31 minutes ago, Booch said:

Theres other ways to move the pocket and not depend soley on the tackle...everything for most part seem just a bit out of sync for good parts of the game....will that go away now with everyone on offence back....guess we will see

I think a lot of the oline issues tho are way overblown....I truly believe the switch at center will go a long way in making a difference...Commend Kolo for filling in and being adequate and holding down the fort...but he is not a topline center, never was...and never was gonna be.....Time to get the future in there...and grow into the role....

Yea....I think our OL concerns have been exaggerating because of one really bad outing against BC which imo was more mental than physical. For all the other games I thought our OL was quite good.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Bubba Zanetti]

1 minute ago, Doublezero said:

I agree with this. One reason for the seeming Q4 success is because FB Damian Jackson was in as an extra blocker for some plays in the 4th Q vs Hamilton - evidence the braintrust believed the O-line could use a little pass pro and run block help at that point. Same way Bombers used LB Wade Miller to clear traffic on offence back in the day. 

Ofcourse. He's a Navy Seal godammit!

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

I agree with this. One reason for the seeming Q4 success is because FB Damian Jackson was in as an extra blocker for some plays in the 4th Q vs Hamilton - evidence the braintrust believed the O-line could use a little pass pro and run block help at that point. Same way Bombers used LB Wade Miller to clear traffic on offence back in the day. 

Sure...you do what you gotta do to get it done. We are getting it done. Is it the same way we used to do it. No. but so what? I really don't understand the grousing about the run game. It is there when we need/want it and has been very productive for us. I could give a fig if BO's 1st Q rushing avg is a yard less than last year. What matters is overall production, overall TOP, and efficiency. We are doing very well in all those areas on offence.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[17to85]

Oliveira is a guy built to wear down a defense. Yeah it will be less effective early on, but keep at it and will pay off late. Just need to string together a few more first downs than they have been.

[Booch]

33 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Yea....I think our OL concerns have been exaggerating because of one really bad outing against BC which imo was more mental than physical. For all the other games I thought our OL was quite good.

agreed....and first 2 games were just dominant....as well as dominant spells in some others....the BC game was just weird all around, and the O-line shouldn't be judged solely on that....We gave up 1/3rd of our sacks basically in that game

[GCn20]

19 minutes ago, Booch said:

agreed....and first 2 games were just dominant....as well as dominant spells in some others....the BC game was just weird all around, and the O-line shouldn't be judged solely on that....We gave up 1/3rd of our sacks basically in that game

Just to put this all to bed and end the debate I will leave this right here, sorry for highlighting your post when doing so Booch just your comment along with this confirms what we've been saying about our OL. Top rated QB, top rated RB, top rated OL. Sounds pretty good to me.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/veteran-zach-collaros-earns-top-quarterback-grade-in-cfl-s-honour-roll-1.1988217

 

BTW, PFF analytics also has our OL ranked number one over the season, not just last week. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Noeller]

In ZC8's entire Bombers tenure, I have never seen him under duress like he has been this year. I don't know enough to know if it's on the OL or something else, but it is a MAJOR problem. The first half of that LOLK's game was infuriating and so obvious that even Suitor picked up on it.... so there is definitely a problem. 

[Bubba Zanetti]

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Just to put this all to bed and end the debate I will leave this right here, sorry for highlighting your post when doing so Booch just your comment along with this confirms what we've been saying about our OL. Top rated QB, top rated RB, top rated OL. Sounds pretty good to me.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/veteran-zach-collaros-earns-top-quarterback-grade-in-cfl-s-honour-roll-1.1988217

Lol. Kolankowski being caved in repeatedly while taking 2 holding calls is rated as the 2nd best o-lineman of the week?? Was he not also replaced by Eli at times in the 2nd half? CFL.CA's "rankings" are toilet paper.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Bubba Zanetti

[MOBomberFan]

10 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Lol. Kolankowski being caved in repeatedly while taking 2 holding calls is rated as the 2nd best o-lineman of the week?? Was he not also replaced by Eli at times in the 2nd half? CFL.CA's "rankings" are toilet paper.

Nope he snapped every ball, Eli came in for a few plays here and there especially late.

Kola is not a world beater but boy is his 'cave in' reputation way overblown. The replay is posted in the GDT I'm ready to go break down every snap. Live in the GDT thought I was taking crazy pills, the 'Kolapse' when it's Bryant that oles his man, the supposed 'bad protection call' by Kola when Dobson just plain gets beat one on one, the 2nd down Bailey catch when 'Kola is in Collaros' lap' while literally being the furthest downfield of any OL, it's crazy that the entire OL can take turns coughing up bad plays but the center is the only one under a microscope on the forum

I don't even like the guy that much it's the whipping boy routine that wears on me

[Bubba Zanetti]

5 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

Nope he snapped every ball, Eli came in for a few plays here and there especially late.

Kola is not a world beater but boy is his 'cave in' reputation way overblown. The replay is posted in the GDT I'm ready to go break down every snap. Live in the GDT thought I was taking crazy pills, the 'Kolapse' when it's Bryant that oles his man, the supposed 'bad protection call' by Kola when Dobson just plain gets beat one on one, the 2nd down Bailey catch when 'Kola is in Collaros' lap' while literally being the furthest downfield of any OL, it's crazy that the entire OL can take turns coughing up bad plays but the center is the only one under a microscope on the forum

I don't even like the guy that much it's the whipping boy routine that wears on me

None of the o-lineman have draped themselves in glory this year. The reason he sticks out to most is his penchant for taking holding penalties and getting put on rollerskates, which weve witnessed numerous times this season.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Jackson is a hell of a blocker.  You’d almost want to see him take a few reps at guard if he’s on the roster anyway.  Athletic and strong, long arms (Dobson’s struggle).

[GCn20]

16 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

None of the o-lineman have draped themselves in glory this year. The reason he sticks out to most is his penchant for taking holding penalties and getting put on rollerskates, which weve witnessed numerous times this season.

It's not our typical overwhelming domination this year....I'll give you that. Still the league's best OL. I think you are just spoiled by what we've had here for the last 3 or 4 years. This year our OL has come back to the pack a bit but its hyperbole to say they are playing badly.

Edited July 25, 2023 by GCn20

[GCn20]

48 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Jackson is a hell of a blocker.  You’d almost want to see him take a few reps at guard if he’s on the roster anyway.  Athletic and strong, long arms (Dobson’s struggle).

He's an intriguing athlete that's for sure. Wish we could have gotten him younger.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Ofcourse. He's a Navy Seal godammit!

Never under estimate a navy seal!  

[rebusrankin]

It would be nice to see us add some guys such as a DE, DT, LB or WR.

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

It would be nice to see us add some guys such as a DE, DT, LB or WR.

well apparently Jagared Davis in Ham was available.....

[DTonOB]

9 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Last year, we gave up 29 sacks. This season in 7 games we've given up 18 or 19. I would need somebody like @DTonOB to verify the sacks numbers and he might have pressure numbers for this year and last season.

17 sacks on pass plays, 1 on a run this year. 8.0% of dropbacks.
For Collaros 28 sacks on passing plays last year, 1 on a running play (CFL quirk). The other Bombers QBs were sacked 5 times.

5.6% of dropbacks in 2022, 8.0% of dropbacks in 2023...a substantial increase.

I haven't caught up charting pressures but Zach is under pressure a little less than last season's 28% of dropbacks. 

[Booch]

well there goes the O-line is in shambles argument....