Blue Bombers - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Geebrr]

15 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

When’s the last time a bomber said no to being plucked from the pr? 2019? 

When is the last time we were offering to put him in the AR and he declined it. 

[Booch]

Just now, Geebrr said:

When is the last time we were offering to put him in the AR and he declined it. 

we havn't had to cross that bridge....yet

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

When is the last time we were offering to put him in the AR and he declined it. 

Montgomery and piggy both poached since we last had some one decline a claim. 
 

Edited September 8, 2023 by wbbfan

[Geebrr]

40 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Montgomery and piggy both poached since we last had some one decline a claim. 
 

We were putting them on the AR and they said no?

I don’t even remember who this Montgomery is. 
 

We released Pigrome I don’t remember him going on the PR 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Geebrr

[MOBomberFan]

15 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

We released Pigrome I don’t remember him going on the PR 

That's because he didn't go on the PR, he was a free agent when he signed in OTT

16 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

I don’t even remember who this Montgomery is.

CFL legend Sam Montgomery? Played zero regular season snaps for EDM before landing on our PR a the conclusion of the 2017 season. Was released less than a month later. Was then brought back in January 2018 and was a final cut out of training camp that year. He did not get back on our practice roster and went of to play in the Arena League, hasn;t been in the CFL since.

[wbbfan]

51 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

We were putting them on the AR and they said no?

I don’t even remember who this Montgomery is. 
 

We released Pigrome I don’t remember him going on the PR 

 

26 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

That's because he didn't go on the PR, he was a free agent when he signed in OTT

CFL legend Sam Montgomery? Played zero regular season snaps for EDM before landing on our PR a the conclusion of the 2017 season. Was released less than a month later. Was then brought back in January 2018 and was a final cut out of training camp that year. He did not get back on our practice roster and went of to play in the Arena League, hasn;t been in the CFL since.

Guys sitting on the pr want to play they aren’t turning down roster spots, especially chances to start hence why pr players picked nearly always go to the new team. You can be ir’d then scratched too. 
Don’t know what was offered. 
 Montgomery was in the aafl then xfl and bc camp/pr twice. 

[wbbfan]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/cal-linebacker-kuony-deng-is-a-prospect-with-loaded-potential/

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/quinton-bell/32004245-4c52-8610-7855-43ab9e547ed6

 Deng is a monster athlete with good size. Bell is a bit light but an out of this world athlete and 6’6. Very Willy j career path. 
Martin is a former 4 star recruit with monster athleticism and good size. After the army he struggled with snaps at some good schools. Strong pet project type. Wilson reminds me a bit of grant 

All 4 are highly desirable developmental guys and likely to kick around the nfl for a bit. We’d be damn lucky to get one of the dl. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 hours ago, Booch said:

i dont eat garbage

But you do spew it at times. 

[MOBomberFan]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Guys sitting on the pr want to play they aren’t turning down roster spots, especially chances to start hence why pr players picked nearly always go to the new team.

But can they outright refuse a promotion to the AR of the team that holds their rights? Don't teams have the leverage?

[wbbfan]

Just now, MOBomberFan said:

But can they outright refuse a promotion to the AR of the team that holds their rights? Don't teams have the leverage?

Yes they can. But no team, our side of maybe a jones team is going to keep a guy who wants to take the claim instead. 
 Pr isn’t really holding rights. It’s more like free agents that get to practice with you. 

[MOBomberFan]

Just now, wbbfan said:

Yes they can. But no team, our side of maybe a jones team is going to keep a guy who wants to take the claim instead. 
 Pr isn’t really holding rights. It’s more like free agents that get to practice with you. 

Thanks man. Sounds like PRs are the take-a-penny leave-a-penny dish of the CFL. I figured if a team held a players rights and they held out, the that player isn't playing for anyone til their rights get dealt, like any normal contract. Didnt realize PR was so different. I'm surprised more poaching doesn't happen already in that case. As you said, most guys especially Americans are here to play

[Booch]

51 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

But you do spew it at times. 

To each their own I guess

9 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

But can they outright refuse a promotion to the AR of the team that holds their rights? Don't teams have the leverage?

No...because they would have to agree on a new deal...once on PR your have voided the original contracts 

[wbbfan]

I think some people are suffering from serious cognitive dissonance over this being the worst performing squad we’ve had since before the 19 run, but is about to clinch a play off/home play off game.
 And the level of play in the league has gotten much better too.  
 
I see what could still be a gc year and should be a dynasty slipping away. Normally in the mafia era it’s seemed like we’ve just needed a key player. A wr, nose, qb, etc. but now with the issues being internal, I don’t even see things getting better via a key trade/fa pick up/ or guy developing. We have most of the pieces we need to succeed, but we insist on not making use of them. 

3 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

Thanks man. Sounds like PRs are the take-a-penny leave-a-penny dish of the CFL. I figured if a team held a players rights and they held out, the that player isn't playing for anyone til their rights get dealt, like any normal contract. Didnt realize PR was so different. I'm surprised more poaching doesn't happen already in that case. As you said, most guys especially Americans are here to play

That’s a really good way to put it honestly. 
 Poaching happens it’s just such a minor thing with how much teams cycle through guys on their pr. Guys seldom sit a whole year on prs any more. The league has a bunch of floaters in each city waiting to get a pr or ar deal. 
 

The league really needs a better catch mechanism to keep talent in the league and paid. 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/cal-linebacker-kuony-deng-is-a-prospect-with-loaded-potential/

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/quinton-bell/32004245-4c52-8610-7855-43ab9e547ed6

 Deng is a monster athlete with good size. Bell is a bit light but an out of this world athlete and 6’6. Very Willy j career path. 
Martin is a former 4 star recruit with monster athleticism and good size. After the army he struggled with snaps at some good schools. Strong pet project type. Wilson reminds me a bit of grant 

All 4 are highly desirable developmental guys and likely to kick around the nfl for a bit. We’d be damn lucky to get one of the dl. 

Bell is described as very much a project but does not seem to have a good feel for the game despite athleticism.  Deng sounds good enough to stay in the NFL for a while yet.

[TrueBlue4ever]

5 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I think some people are suffering from serious cognitive dissonance over this being the worst performing squad we’ve had since before the 19 run, but is about to clinch a play off/home play off game.
 And the level of play in the league has gotten much better too.  
 
I see what could still be a gc year and should be a dynasty slipping away. Normally in the mafia era it’s seemed like we’ve just needed a key player. A wr, nose, qb, etc. but now with the issues being internal, I don’t even see things getting better via a key trade/fa pick up/ or guy developing. We have most of the pieces we need to succeed, but we insist on not making use of them. 

The question is: what standard are you holding this team to? You are comparing this edition to a magical 4 game run in 2019 where we all got to exhale after 3 decades of failure, then a generational defensive juggernaut that the league has not seen the likes of in maybe 60 years, followed by the single best regular season in the 93 year history of the club. So compared to that level of excellence, anything will suffer by comparison. IMO you are mistaking perfection with competence, and it comes across as “if we can’t win every game, and win by 30+, then there must be a serious flaw and our fate is sealed, our doom is inevitable”. It’s an unrealistic mindset to expect that level of absolute flawlessness, and that is where the real cognitive dissonance lies. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to win every game, but when it skews your judgment to the point that any loss is seen as proof of a fatal flaw that will lead to doom, and every win is due to luck, and the only logical solution is to fire or punch the coach in the face because he is so oblivious to this colossal problem, no matter how much the winning might suggest the problem is being blown out of proportion, then the middle ground argument that could provide a good debate is lost in hyperbole, and the discussion turns into sniping between the “blind not to see it” and the “whiners”. 

[SpeedFlex27]

8 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

But you do spew it at times. 

People in glass houses should not throw stones. 

[Booch]

Some.roster decisions...usage...and.lack of usage .. especially new roster rule in place yea is a flaw

As.an organization and a fan as well...your team should always be striving to get better..augment and improve areas of weakness...we used to...prior to our 2 cup run...since then not much...we are complacent in several areas...and that's not acceptable

.why we have morphed to this...is anyone's question but its obvious...yeah we a good team more times than not...but the not is becoming too common place...we used the idea term that some of the performances were a "one off"..or "anomaly"...well when it happens more than 2 times it's more a trend...and if you don't correct the trend...well that's when teams fall from grace...that's all...people here don't understand or see it...and take some peoples opinion or suggestions as going over board...and that's their god given right to opinion...but that being said I been around enough to see the things a passive or passionate fan doesn't...that's all I am saying...many here agree...many don't...many have no opinion on it...which is fair too...but just sayin

[GCn20]

17 hours ago, Booch said:

guess people dont get sarcasm....many toss it out but fail to recognize it

just an aside, something I have heard from a very trusted person connected to the agents...that 2 teams have either kicked Haba tires/reached out....or will be, and 1 being a team in the West, and like donuts.....

BC has about 15 DEs on their roster already...lol. Hey, if another team feels they want him and we choose to not activate him then we will cross that bridge. I will call a spade a spade at that time and be pretty pissed to lose a good young rookie.

16 hours ago, Booch said:

he has to agree to a PR spot....but if someone claims him, and he accepts....game over.....what part of that do you not get....he agrees to sign, it's effectively saying no thanks to the PR here....and from being on a PR multiple times...I know that as fact

Same with going on a 6 game....yu dont have to, and can refuse, and be set free...been there as well, so know what I am yammerin' on about

No. That's not correct. We have the option of activating him to the AR if someone tries to pluck him and Haba is under contract here and would have no choice.

15 hours ago, Geebrr said:

We were putting them on the AR and they said no?

I don’t even remember who this Montgomery is. 
 

We released Pigrome I don’t remember him going on the PR 

Pigrome and Montgomery were both FA's and not on the PR. WBB's statement is factually incorrect. As is the statement that players have a choice to decline being activated to the AR. They do not have a choice. They are under contract.

[Booch]

If he decides he doesn't want to be on PR ...he can walk

[GCn20]

14 hours ago, wbbfan said:

 

Guys sitting on the pr want to play they aren’t turning down roster spots, especially chances to start hence why pr players picked nearly always go to the new team. You can be ir’d then scratched too. 
Don’t know what was offered. 
 Montgomery was in the aafl then xfl and bc camp/pr twice. 

Not true....many, many players decline being plucked from the PR of the team they are on. Also, most times these moves are thwarted by that team simply activating that player if another team swoops in.

1 minute ago, Booch said:

If he decides he doesn't want to be on PR ...he can walk

Yes he can retire, or just quit and go home. He cannot just walk off our PR to another team. Can't do it.

12 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

But can they outright refuse a promotion to the AR of the team that holds their rights? Don't teams have the leverage?

No. Cannot refuse. If they did they would be activated then suspended.

12 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Yes they can. But no team, our side of maybe a jones team is going to keep a guy who wants to take the claim instead. 
 Pr isn’t really holding rights. It’s more like free agents that get to practice with you. 

No...no it's not. Teams block PR poaching a lot more than you know by activating the player. Many players refuse to be poached as well.

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

Thanks man. Sounds like PRs are the take-a-penny leave-a-penny dish of the CFL. I figured if a team held a players rights and they held out, the that player isn't playing for anyone til their rights get dealt, like any normal contract. Didnt realize PR was so different. I'm surprised more poaching doesn't happen already in that case. As you said, most guys especially Americans are here to play

It doesn't happen more because it is rarely successful. Teams block PR poaching attempts a lot, we just never hear about it. The player is under contract if the team exercises their right to activate him. Simple as that. Teams can't just go out and go shopping on other team's PRs and don't do it often because they then have to place someone from their AR onto the PR and expose them. 95% of PR poaching attempts are unsuccessful.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by GCn20

[MOBomberFan]

8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

No. Cannot refuse. If they did they would be activated then suspended.

This makes more sense to me tbh. And once suspended they can't play for anyone else until their rights expire or they get dealt.

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

It doesn't happen more because it is rarely successful. Teams block PR poaching attempts a lot, we just never hear about it. The player is under contract if the team exercises their right to activate him. Simple as that.

This is all more in line with what I would expect. Between the 'gentleman's agreement' among GMs, and the fact that teams holding a player's rights hold all the leverage, nobody gets poached without a team basically letting it happen. In other words, if we want to keep Haba, we can do it easily by activating him to the AR.

Thanks yall for your explanations even if they continue to conflict hahaha

[JuranBoldenRules]

47 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It doesn't happen more because it is rarely successful. Teams block PR poaching attempts a lot, we just never hear about it. The player is under contract if the team exercises their right to activate him. Simple as that. Teams can't just go out and go shopping on other team's PRs and don't do it often because they then have to place someone from their AR onto the PR and expose them. 95% of PR poaching attempts are unsuccessful.

 

It’s also unattractive to teams outside of desperation because they have to keep the guy active or release him.

Players have to decide if they are closer to a breakthrough with the team they’ve been with or want one game Cheque from a team in desperation like Hamilton was with Canadian OL for a couple weeks this year.

[Booch]

U can decline a pr spot...as well as leave if u take one....same as 6 game injured...if player refuses...team has to let him go

Also...agents will talk to players "unofficial" and say hey...we want u...walk away from your PR commitment and we will sign you....just because u see a team release a PR player doesn't mean it was team initiated..I know this as 100 percent fact....PR spot is NOT an standard contract per say...if any player on a PR wants to.leave...look.for work elsewhere a.team can't stop them...same right now with Darby...he not hurt...and if he gets feelers that a team wants him...he will refuse his 6 game status and team will release him...may seem like a team move but it's not...don't care if you believe me one bit...but have seen it first hand and personally...

[MOBomberFan]

17 minutes ago, Booch said:

don't care if you believe me one bit...but have seen it first hand and personally...

Who's calling you a liar? You keep saying 6game and we believe you... but what about the AR? Thats what we are asking about.

Point blank yes or no questions:

1. can a team activate a player on their PR to prevent them from being poached? (So far, the concensus is yes and previously posted news articles back this up)

Yes or no?

2. can a player refuse to be promoted from the PR to the AR, and as a result facilitate the poaching? Even though the team holding his rights wanted to activate him? (Sounds fishy)

Yes or no?

3. can a player end their own PR contract and sign as a FA elsewhere in the same season?

Yes or no?

That would clear up a lot for me. I dont care about 6game 1game or demotions to the PR... I'm asking very specifically about promoting from the PR to the AR I cant be more clear

Edited September 9, 2023 by MOBomberFan
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