Blue Bombers - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[wbbfan]

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Hardrick and Bryant are doing just fine, and no OL is health late in the season. Gray is doing just fine, Kola I agree should be replaced by Eli and that is likely the plan, Neuf probably will retire and open a spot for Eli/Dobson but if he doesn't he is still a pretty good OG. Biggie I agree needs to think retirement. Rose and BA are just fine at the right positions. JJ is a beast. His health has been an issue his entire career but he is one of, if not the best, pure pass rusher in the CFL when he is healthy. Our NI depth does need help, mainly because we have drafted very well and lost players to the NFL. I expect that Walters will address that. So much doom and gloom in your posts. 

This is fine. Lmao don’t over dose on copium you’re at dangerous levels. 
neither of our tackles can defend speed rushes. Neuf isn’t gonna retire. He will continue to run out onto the field til he’s forced off it. 

[Jesse]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

It isn’t. Like most people you just drastically under estimate the chance of things getting worse. Teams like Toronto and bc will be improving next year. Some of their best players are young, and they have done a much better job developing identifying and using talent. 
 

Zach has taken 116 sacks in his cfl career. 51 of those are between last year and this year. 27 and counting this year. The only play off team who’s qb has been sacked more than Zach is Vernon adams. 
 Our ol isn’t way above average in pass pro. Thinking it is despite all the evidence to the contrary just shows the bias. 
 

our ol, dl, secondary and Canadian depth are average despite our lines being among the most expensive in the league. How do you think we keep guys like schoen little on get good cfl vets to fill gaps like that? 
 

Toronto and BC can both go 16-2 next season.

Who else is beating us so consistently that brings us down to 5 wins?

[17to85]

Yeah there will be some hard decisions to be made this offseason. 

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly they need to bring in some new recruits who can push older guys down the lineup. That never happened this past season.

We also need to burn down the old boys club and actually play young guys instead of running out guys who can’t play any more though. 

[17to85]

Just now, wbbfan said:

We also need to burn down the old boys club and actually play young guys instead of running out guys who can’t play any more though. 

Nobody "can't play anymore" 

[bluedawg]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly they need to bring in some new recruits who can push older guys down the lineup. That never happened this past season.

I think there is moreso a loyalty to the older guys that is keeping new players from those spots. Feels like O'Shea would rather lose with guys he likes like Damian Jackson than win with more talented players he doesn't like as much.

[Pepper_Brooks]

24 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Elaborate. Tell me what players, should we keep them, would have the effect of turning us into a fringe playoff team in a single offseason. Stanley Bryant? Still the best OT in the game. JeMarcus Hardrick? Play has dropped off a tiny bit but again one of the best OTs in the game. Pat Neufeld? Not his best season but better than half the starters in the league at his position. Adam Bighill? Certainly not MODP calibre anymore and probably our most pressing need to replace but won't cost us 3-4 victories. Brandon Alexander? Again not playing up to his past play but has been solid. Mike Miller? Hasn't played this year. The Jeffs? One could argue about their salary impact but both are still very good DE's.

Yea...I guess I'm just not seeing it. I am sure that we will move on from a couple guys on this list or they will choose to retire, but really all could go another year if we couldn't find a suitable replacement. However, I do agree that some roster turnover is probably necessary this offseason to maintain our Grey Cup favorite status but we are not in any sort of dire predicament either. 

Your strong bias towards the blue team is quite evident in this post. 

It's clear that our team is displaying signs of aging this year, and I anticipate significant departures during the offseason to lower the average age and offload veteran salaries of several players you've mentioned.

[Super Duper Negatron]

I think success is on a knife's edge for the team right now. If they run it back I fully expect them to be fighting with Edmonton for a playoff spot next year. They need to make at least a couple upgrades on OL, DL and linebacker.

[wbbfan]

Just now, 17to85 said:

Yeah there will be some hard decisions to be made this offseason. 

If we improve next year. If we don’t have hard decisions we will regress in a big way next year. I don’t know if we have what it takes to make those hard calls and move on from guys post grey cup. 
 

Remember randles exit? Or mo coming back from injury got very little chance. We used to make those hard moves any time they came up and it propelled the team to greatness. When’s the last time we made one of those moves now? Is it still randle and mo? We lose guys in fa but we’ve been hemorrhaging talent to cfl fa every year since 19. 

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Nobody "can't play anymore" 

Jake Thomas sure can’t. And we have a bunch of guys paid like stars who can only fill a niche role now. Our o and d were built on versatility we don’t have any of that now. We have to create specific opportunities for a bunch of guys to succeed instead of being able to play what’s best to beat an opposition. 

[Pepper_Brooks]

28 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Hardrick and Bryant haven’t been healthy late in the season since 19. One at worst has to move into guard and we need a younger tackle. Gray and kola haven’t worked out and nuef is past it. Thomas is soo far past it it’s not even funny. Jeffcoat can’t play half a season and is in the top handful of des. Biggie is only situationally effective. He can’t pass rush can’t get off blocks and can’t scrape to the ball. Rose and ba haven’t been the same in a long time either. 
 Willy needs a guy off the other edge and inside who can get consistent pressure. He isn’t a guy who does that him self. He has more time in him and jj has use but not as a top 3 in reps on the dl. 
 

in general our ni depth is the worst it’s been since before 19. We have few guys who can contribute any thing to o or d and the teams specialists we’ve been drafting for years have amounted to very little. We have no guy who is the next miller. How many nis do we have at the skill positions that could start in this league? 

I appreciate you sharing this. If you've been objectively watching our games this year, all the points you've made are undeniably evident. The level of denial, optimism, and unwavering loyalty in the responses to your post is truly astonishing.

14 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly they need to bring in some new recruits who can push older guys down the lineup. That never happened this past season.

You're speaking the truth here. It does make you wonder if we've lost some scouts in recent years. Apart from Schoen, our recruitment efforts seem to have fallen short, and the lack of depth on our gameday rosters is a clear indicator of this.

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Toronto and BC can both go 16-2 next season.

Who else is beating us so consistently that brings us down to 5 wins?

Don’t forget bc went from missing the play offs to contender in one year. In the first half edm was a free spot on the bingo card in the second they’ve been play off quality. Hamilton has a similar turn around. Ott has a lot of good pieces too. The whole league is catching up. Another off season and camp like this last one and we will have no advantage on the roster. 
 Look at our losses this year and last. As much as it is to contenders, it’s to former bottomed feeders rising up. 

[Pepper_Brooks]

14 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Walters said before this season started that they deserved the chance to run it back. They are getting that chance.

And despite what some say (And I've complained as much as anyone about certain things), they've had a great season. I'm sure next season, we'll see a few different moves.

Did he actually say that? Can you p provide a link that quotes him? In professional sports, that kind of talk is weak. Your opponents work incredibly hard to improve every year, and if you're not participating in that race, as we've seen this year, it's a problem.

[Jesse]

2 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Don’t forget bc went from missing the play offs to contender in one year. In the first half edm was a free spot on the bingo card in the second they’ve been play off quality. Hamilton has a similar turn around. Ott has a lot of good pieces too. The whole league is catching up. Another off season and camp like this last one and we will have no advantage on the roster. 
 Look at our losses this year and last. As much as it is to contenders, it’s to former bottomed feeders rising up. 

You show a simultaneous faith in organizations that have been absolute gong shows over multiple years and a lack of faith in our model of consistent success.

It's odd.

[17to85]

17 minutes ago, bluedawg said:

Feels like O'Shea would rather lose with guys he likes like Damian Jackson than win with more talented players he doesn't like as much.

Cite examples of more talented players who aren't getting reps at the expense of older players....

[Jesse]

3 minutes ago, Pepper_Brooks said:

Did he actually say that? Can you p provide a link that quotes him? In professional sports, that kind of talk is weak. Your opponents work incredibly hard to improve every year, and if you're not participating in that race, as we've seen this year, it's a problem.

He did in an interview I watched. I am not going to search through old interviews to find it.

I do not find it weak. It was simply a statement of support for the team and our desire to keep as much of the core together in FA as possible.

[Bigblue204]

11 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Don’t forget bc went from missing the play offs to contender in one year. In the first half edm was a free spot on the bingo card in the second they’ve been play off quality. Hamilton has a similar turn around. Ott has a lot of good pieces too. The whole league is catching up. Another off season and camp like this last one and we will have no advantage on the roster. 
 Look at our losses this year and last. As much as it is to contenders, it’s to former bottomed feeders rising up. 

yeah...from 3 all the way to 4

[17to85]

17 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Jake Thomas sure can’t

That's an extreme opinion... he isn't what he once was (whatever that was) but he can still play. He's basically the one older guy who is "blocking" someone younger and better. Though I think he can still be a player on the roster.

[Pepper_Brooks]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Cite examples of more talented players who aren't getting reps at the expense of older players....

Haba? I'm puzzled as to why he's on the practice roster when he's proven his abilities on the field.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Pepper_Brooks

[Bigblue204]

3 minutes ago, Pepper_Brooks said:

Haba? I'm puzzled as to why he's on the practice roster when he's proven his abilities on the field.

I wouldn't say he's more talented than either of the Jeffs. Really the person who is taking his spot (who 100% should not be) is Bennet. And he's the teams #1 draft choice. I feel like there are NFL style politics there...as in, he plays cause he's the #1 draft choice. And helps that he's CND who can go in if there's an injury.

[Jesse]

5 minutes ago, Pepper_Brooks said:

Haba? I'm puzzled as to why he's on the practice roster when he's proven his abilities on the field.

First, I do agree he should be on the roster.

Second, he is not sitting at the expense of an older player (unless you feel he should be starting - which is crazy). He is sitting because MOS seems to value other positions more.

Third, he hasn't really proved his abilities on the field. Any time he has started, he's mostly been a non-factor. 

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

I wouldn't say he's more talented than either of the Jeffs. Really the person who is taking his spot (who 100% should not be) is Bennet. And he's the teams #1 draft choice. I feel like there are NFL style politics there...as in, he plays cause he's the #1 draft choice. And helps that he's CND who can go in if there's an injury.

We often talk about Bennett and Jackson getting on the field ahead of Haba, but really we should be benching a couple of our LBs and then MOS can roster whoever he likes. 

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, Jesse said:

You show a simultaneous faith in organizations that have been absolute gong shows over multiple years and a lack of faith in our model of consistent success.

It's odd.

It’s not hard to follow clear trends. We were the same gong show, and hamilton/mtl haven’t been gong shows on the field in the last while. 
 

2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

yeah...from 3 all the way to 4

I should’ve been more clear I was talking about who beat us not the amount. 
 

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

That's an extreme opinion... he isn't what he once was (whatever that was) but he can still play. He's basically the one older guy who is "blocking" someone younger and better. Though I think he can still be a player on the roster.

It’s not extreme, look at the 30 front to take him off more.that was the lowest snaps he’s taken in a meaningful game since idk when. 
 An extreme opinion wouldn’t even be that ba, rose, biggie, wj, jj and our starters on ol will never be better than they are today. Because out side of gray, they combine to be about as old as speedflexs’ first bomber game. Lol it wouldn’t even be a big risk to say we haven’t drafted well since 19. Since the 19 draft have we picked a single guy who’s a starter today? A couple guys have started briefly in relief but that total could probably be counted on your fingers  

an extreme opinion or hot take would be some thing like Zach is shot, bolo/dobson/Eli are trash, lawler is better than schoen etc. not saying those are my opinions but that’s the range. My hot take? Mos won’t play better young guys because of his loyalty and is making us worse for it. Buck can’t adjust and has failed to build a system that progresses and has wrinkles. Hall is too soft to get his guys to tackle or play aggressive even out side of the cushion. We have our heads soo far up our own butts as an organization that we think our culture will keep us contending no matter what and staying on the moral high ground is as important as winning a gc. And that maybe, just maybe, walters is one foot out the door ready to go back to a gig in Ontario. 
 

[Fatty Liver]

54 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Hardrick and Bryant are doing just fine, and no OL is health late in the season. Gray is doing just fine, Kola I agree should be replaced by Eli and that is likely the plan, Neuf probably will retire and open a spot for Eli/Dobson but if he doesn't he is still a pretty good OG. Biggie I agree needs to think retirement. Rose and BA are just fine at the right positions. JJ is a beast. His health has been an issue his entire career but he is one of, if not the best, pure pass rusher in the CFL when he is healthy. Our NI depth does need help, mainly because we have drafted very well and lost players to the NFL. I expect that Walters will address that. So much doom and gloom in your posts. 

What I don't see is the upcoming replacements for the main guys like Biggie, the Jeffs, Bryant, Hardrick or Miller beginning to shine.

I see future stars developing on other teams across the league here and there, but not so much on the Bombers.  The last few years it seems they've mostly brought in foot soldiers and do not have the next gen. of exceptional leaders coming up within the ranks. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Fatty Liver

[Pepper_Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Jesse said:

First, I do agree he should be on the roster.

Second, he is not sitting at the expense of an older player (unless you feel he should be starting - which is crazy). He is sitting because MOS seems to value other positions more.

Third, he hasn't really proved his abilities on the field. Any time he has started, he's mostly been a non-factor. 

He made an impact in the first few weeks, and he sealed the win with a sack against Hamilton(?), showing impressive individual athleticism. However, it appears he might be deficient in one aspect of his game, potentially struggling in run defense.

In years past we ran 3 American DEs, so someone else, likely aged, took that spot. And our d-line has suffered from this decision.

[wbbfan]

16 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Cite examples of more talented players who aren't getting reps at the expense of older players....

Habba fox burtenshaw Deng Agudosi ads Muhammad Cole Caleb Lawson Parker salima pigrome. In the pile of guys that beat out superior talents and wasted reps/roster spots szott Schmekel Bennett Jackson machino kola Augustine Thomas gmc/Parker as a return man that’s just a few guys this year. Really not hard Karamoko over maruo would’ve been an improvement too. 

[Bigblue204]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I should’ve been more clear I was talking about who beat us not the amount. 
 

BC...which isn't a big deal imo. SSK during Labour day...again..that's how that week goes for some reason....Ticats IN hammy....which is exactly where they lost last year. And Ott. who had no business hanging with them but did and they needed OT to get the W...I'll ask you to go back to weeks 1 and 2 of last year. 

So really, the only issue I see is the OTT game. Against a team that had a new QB starting that no one really knew much about. And the Bombers made 3 or 4 HUGE errors that I would bet 99 out of 100 times dont ALL take place in the same game.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Bigblue204