Blue Bombers - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[johnzo]

Hmmm, Yoshi over Bryant for Blue MOOL.

 

[Noeller]

34 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Hmmm, Yoshi over Bryant for Blue MOOL.

 

I had a chuckle....

 

 

[Mike]

On 2023-10-23 at 10:43 AM, GCn20 said:

MOS is the best HC in this league. I doubt Mike would admit that.

I 100% feel that way, there’s not a head coach in the league I would trade him for.

Doesn’t mean I agree with some of what he does, especially when it comes to roster decisions or in-game decisions. 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Not sure why everyone is so quick to give Kelly MOP. His stats are beyond pedestrian. 3rd in passing TD’s, 4th in passing yards, tied for 4th in completion percentage. Brady is having the 2nd best rushing season by a Canadian in CFL HISTORY. He’s going to break 1500 yards. No one has done that(American or Canadian) in 10 freaking years.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Bubba Zanetti

[rebusrankin]

1 minute ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Not sure why everyone is so quick to give Kelly MOP. His stats are beyond pedestrian. 3rd in passing TD’s, 4th in passing yards, tied for 4th in completion percentage. Brady is having the 2nd best rushing season by a Canadian in CFL HISTORY.

My reasons are the media likes to hype Toronto teams and general media stupidity.

[Noeller]

2 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

My reasons are the media likes to hype Toronto teams and general media stupidity.

Ding ding ding.

[Bubba Zanetti]

By god I hope you guys are wrong. That would be a travesty. His stats are garbage.

[Booch]

Yeah Kelley isn't being a world beater by any stretch and isn't the top ranked player at his position stats wise.........Hopefully the Canadian aspect helps bolster what BO does....Will end the yr with at least 13 td's....1500 yards rushing....over 2000 yards from scrimmage....7 100 yard games rushing..Tossed a 100 yard receiving game in there too and will likely have 500+yards receiving...2nd highest total by a Canadian ever....Highest rushing total in yrs...never missed a game.....how he doesn't

 win both his awards would be a real screw job in my opinion

[HardCoreBlue]

4 hours ago, Noeller said:

I had a chuckle....

 

 

This is what great teammates say. 

[GCn20]

13 hours ago, Mike said:

I 100% feel that way, there’s not a head coach in the league I would trade him for.

Doesn’t mean I agree with some of what he does, especially when it comes to roster decisions or in-game decisions. 

Fair enough. I retract my comment. Thanks for clarifying that. I really felt that you were lobbying for a HCing change, I should have asked your opinion before. My bad. I actually completely agree with the roster/PR criticisms, I just don't necessarily think they are affecting us as much as you guys do. I shouldn't have been so harsh on you, just some of your comments had me believing that you felt it was time for MOS to be shown the door and I strongly disagree with that. You and Booch's criticisms of PR and roster usage are bang on, just overstated imo.

Edited October 26, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

34 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Fair enough. I retract my comment. Thanks for clarifying that. I really felt that you were lobbying for a HCing change, I should have asked your opinion before. My bad. I actually completely agree with the roster/PR criticisms, I just don't necessarily think they are affecting us as much as you guys do. I shouldn't have been so harsh on you, just some of your comments had me believing that you felt it was time for MOS to be shown the door and I strongly disagree with that. You and Booch's criticisms of PR and roster usage are bang on, just overstated imo.

neither one of us ever said we wanted him gone....just adapt and grow....and being critical doesn't mean you want someone gone....if you not trying to fix flaws and weak points....then you aren't putting best foot forward is my thought process

[TBURGESS]

If the 3 of you could have said that a month ago, we'd all have been better off. 

[Jesse]

Just now, TBURGESS said:

If the 3 of you could have said that a month ago, we'd all have been better off. 

Everyone said all of this. But next time there’s a roster decision that someone disagrees with, it starts all over again.

[bluto]

14 hours ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Not sure why everyone is so quick to give Kelly MOP. His stats are beyond pedestrian. 3rd in passing TD’s, 4th in passing yards, tied for 4th in completion percentage. Brady is having the 2nd best rushing season by a Canadian in CFL HISTORY. He’s going to break 1500 yards. No one has done that in 10 freaking years.

Saying this before I add context: I picked Brady Oliveira as MOP.

But: you can't blame Kelly for his "lack" of flashy stats. We start every drive at midfield. We've won the starting field position battle for a stupifying 17 straight games. We have the best kickoff, 2 best punters and best returner. Kelly doesn't even put together "drives" so much as he comes out at midfield, makes a 35 yard throw and then we run it in. Hell, we're usually up by two scores so we don't even pass in the second half but for 2nd and longs.

[Jesse]

37 minutes ago, bluto said:

Saying this before I add context: I picked Brady Oliveira as MOP.

But: you can't blame Kelly for his "lack" of flashy stats. We start every drive at midfield. We've won the starting field position battle for a stupifying 17 straight games. We have the best kickoff, 2 best punters and best returner. Kelly doesn't even put together "drives" so much as he comes out at midfield, makes a 35 yard throw and then we run it in. Hell, we're usually up by two scores so we don't even pass in the second half but for 2nd and longs.

Can’t blame him; but also can’t label him “outstanding” if he was never in the position to show it.

[bluto]

3 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Can’t blame him; but also can’t label him “outstanding” if he was never in the position to show it.

To be clear, he was and is outstanding. Just not in my opinion, the most outstanding.

[Booch]

I wont label him as anything until he plays all the teams and into his second year there, and is a known entity....and isnt benefiting from a roster where peanuts are being paid in a few key places...then we will see the real deal

[Jesse]

26 minutes ago, bluto said:

To be clear, he was and is outstanding. Just not in my opinion, the most outstanding.

Well we can agree to disagree on Kelly’s outstandingness. Not the go up point of this discussion.

but for the purpose of the MOP award, a player needs to be excellent and needs the opportunities to demonstrate it. It’s like the cornerback argument: the best CB’s don’t accumulate stats because they’re never targeted. Meanwhile, the “lesser” CBs win award for leading the league in INTs, when they’re the most targeted CBs.

In this particular season, Kelly did what he needed to do to keep his team moving; but due to the strength of the rest of his roster, he was rarely put into the position of needing to throw for 4+ TDs to steal a game.

Brady was consistently leaned on all year long in both the running and receiving game and saved the day more than once. 
 

(I realize you agree; I’m just pontificating).

[bluto]

4 minutes ago, Jesse said:

(I realize you agree; I’m just pontificating).

Pontificate on, with your Pontification.

 

(I'm a poet)

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

neither one of us ever said we wanted him gone....just adapt and grow....and being critical doesn't mean you want someone gone....if you not trying to fix flaws and weak points....then you aren't putting best foot forward is my thought process

I can agree with that.

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

If the 3 of you could have said that a month ago, we'd all have been better off. 

I actually agree with this as well.

1 hour ago, bluto said:

Saying this before I add context: I picked Brady Oliveira as MOP.

But: you can't blame Kelly for his "lack" of flashy stats. We start every drive at midfield. We've won the starting field position battle for a stupifying 17 straight games. We have the best kickoff, 2 best punters and best returner. Kelly doesn't even put together "drives" so much as he comes out at midfield, makes a 35 yard throw and then we run it in. Hell, we're usually up by two scores so we don't even pass in the second half but for 2nd and longs.

Meh....Kelly is a game manager. 

[GCn20]

10 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Well we can agree to disagree on Kelly’s outstandingness. Not the go up point of this discussion.

but for the purpose of the MOP award, a player needs to be excellent and needs the opportunities to demonstrate it. It’s like the cornerback argument: the best CB’s don’t accumulate stats because they’re never targeted. Meanwhile, the “lesser” CBs win award for leading the league in INTs, when they’re the most targeted CBs.

In this particular season, Kelly did what he needed to do to keep his team moving; but due to the strength of the rest of his roster, he was rarely put into the position of needing to throw for 4+ TDs to steal a game.

Brady was consistently leaned on all year long in both the running and receiving game and saved the day more than once. 
 

(I realize you agree; I’m just pontificating).

I think just the opposite of what Bluto is suggesting. Given the outstanding field position and amount of drives he gets a game, if he were the MOP calibre QB he should be easily miles ahead of all other QBs in TD passing, and red zone efficiency....and he isn't. Yardage is always a red herring stat for QBs and not important but those 2 stats separate the outstanding QBs from the game managers.

[3rdand1.5]

TBH, Brady may not even get out of the West. League wide VA has a lot of love to represent the West MOP and right or wrong QB's do get more consideration. As far as MOC overall Brady has contributed more but Betts has broken records and has a lot of love from the league. It is possible Betts and VA beat him out of the West.

 

As for league wide awards, I just can't see anyway Brady beats out Kelly if he makes it out of the West. Nor do I see anyway VA would beat Kelly. While it may not be my vote I just don't see a scenario where Kelly isn't awarded MOP.

As to CDN whether it is Brady or Betts representing the West, they will win the league award IMO.

 

Brady has been amazing and arguably one of the most impressive players this season, but he may not even but up for any league awards come time......

 

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

TBH, Brady may not even get out of the West. League wide VA has a lot of love to represent the West MOP and right or wrong QB's do get more consideration. As far as MOC overall Brady has contributed more but Betts has broken records and has a lot of love from the league. It is possible Betts and VA beat him out of the West.

 

As for league wide awards, I just can't see anyway Brady beats out Kelly if he makes it out of the West. Nor do I see anyway VA would beat Kelly. While it may not be my vote I just don't see a scenario where Kelly isn't awarded MOP.

As to CDN whether it is Brady or Betts representing the West, they will win the league award IMO.

 

Brady has been amazing and arguably one of the most impressive players this season, but he may not even but up for any league awards come time......

 

I think Brady will come out of the West. The selection committee already chose him over Collaros, who is a superior QB candidate than VA.  It would defy logic for them to select BO over ZC than turn around and select VA over BO. By that same logic, BO would have to be favored over Kelly whose metrics and performance were also not as good as ZC. It's MOP not MVP. Kelly has not been that outstanding really....or at least not as outstanding as ZC on pretty much every measurable statistic. Also, one should remember the CFL is absolutely craving a NAT winner for MOP. It shouldn't matter...but it will.

Edited October 26, 2023 by GCn20

[Fatty Liver]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I think Brady will come out of the West. The selection committee already chose him over Collaros, who is a superior QB candidate than VA.  It would defy logic for them to select BO over ZC than turn around and select VA over BO. By that same logic, BO would have to be favored over Kelly whose metrics and performance were also not as good as ZC.

That's only the pick of the Wpg. selection committee, 4 other selection committees in the West.

[Goldkobra]

At a casual glance,  chad Kelly's numbers look pretty similar to MBT's in 2022. I don't think Bethel-Thompson was in the MOP debate,  was he?