Blue Bombers - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[GCn20]

56 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a receiver on the PR for the inevitable event when one of your starters misses time.

BOLO is a Canadian, which puts him in a different category for roster management purposes. McCrea came on as an RB and is more of a Demski replacement if anything. We had Agudosi, but we did a swap for a new prospect meaning that we've put ourselves in this position of having no one available with any experience in our system. 

MOS talks about it (We wanted to have a look at other guys). And in a vacuum that's fair. You've seen all you need to see from Agudosi so you move onto the next prospect. Great. But he has been here for three years. And you don't bring in that next prospect until the week before you cut him? It just seems like another example of not planning ahead/not using your PR effectively for such an experienced and successful group.

Before Lawler returned McCrae had already beaten out Agudosi for his spot. Yes, McCrae is not a typical receiver but we found ways to make him a productive part of our starting offence earlier this season and I see no reason why we can't do the same now. Before Lawler arrived this was basically our receiving corps swap Schoen for Lawler.

14 hours ago, Mike said:

Lmao at everyone overreacting to a comment.

By viable replacement, I meant “maybe a guy who is actually a receiver”, not a proven all star. 

We do have a guy who actually a traditional receiver on the PR in Ravi Alston, and in the meantime we had McCrae who is a guy we have started numerous times and has been quite productive for us at receiver, not to mention BOLO who deserves way more playing time than he has received. I fail to see the issue. Like I stated earlier, we have 10 guys max on the PR and a guy like BOLO here. There was no urgency to keep Agudosi, or to bring in someone game ready to the PR. We had a receiver recruit that was ready to come here that we must have really liked and was willing to come now, and we made room for him on the PR. That is what the PR is for. I would rather we move guys out of the PR and look at others once we know there upside won't be enough. Agudosi was 30 years old and wasn't ever going to crack our starting lineup. This new kid Alston....who knows? The injury to Schoen just happens to coincide with him not being here long enough to take the field but who knows...maybe we elevate this kid in a week or two if Schoen is long term. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by GCn20

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

It requires different usage for sure and he adds a little redundancy with Demski for sure. However, the way we utlilized him and Demski vs. Calgary earlier this year with both guys in motion in the backfield was giving Calgary fits that game. Bottom line we could expect Adugosi to provide about 50 yds a game of production realistically and there is no reason to not expect the same from McCrae.

Yea....I agree. McCrae forces us into a kind of a different look but it's not something we haven't done before with success. Schoen being out now is not a whole lot different than when Lawler missed the first 6 games. We will just have to adapt to it.

Agree. Either we gotta double motion which is fine, takes guys out of cover and clears up passing lanes for Zach. Or we play Demski like schoen and gmc like Demski but I don’t like that drop off. 
 

I like bolo, I wonder about starting him though in this case. seems like an odd fit and leaves us with no back up ni wr. Guessing he will rotate a lot. 
 

hate the secondary. No back up cover guy. It’s a huge risk. I imagine if any one gets hurt again we will slide ba over to that spot and plug one of the nucks in at s. 
 

Hope we continue to see more of the 30 front.  

[Mike]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Before Lawler returned McCrae had already beaten out Agudosi for his spot. Yes, McCrae is not a typical receiver but we found ways to make him a productive part of our starting offence earlier this season and I see no reason why we can't do the same now. Before Lawler arrived this was basically our receiving corps swap Schoen for Lawler.

We do have a guy who actually a traditional receiver on the PR in Ravi Alston, and in the meantime we had McCrae who is a guy we have started numerous times and has been quite productive for us at receiver, not to mention BOLO who deserves way more playing time than he has received. I fail to see the issue. Like I stated earlier, we have 10 guys max on the PR and a guy like BOLO here. There was no urgency to keep Agudosi, or to bring in someone game ready to the PR. We had a receiver recruit that was ready to come here that we must have really liked and was willing to come now, and we made room for him on the PR. That is what the PR is for. I would rather we move guys out of the PR and look at others once we know there upside won't be enough. Agudosi was 30 years old and wasn't ever going to crack our starting lineup. This new kid Alston....who knows? The injury to Schoen just happens to coincide with him not being here long enough to take the field but who knows...maybe we elevate this kid in a week or two if Schoen is long term. 

And if we were actually managing things properly, you wouldn’t have to jump through so many hoops to try and explain what the team is doing.

Our practice roster has been mismanaged all year. Same as last year. Maybe if we didn’t waste spots on guys who were never going to make the roster, we could’ve brought in guys who actually had a shot at contributing and let them spend the year here getting up to speed on things. Maybe we could actually try developing a guy, giving him time to practice with the team so that if the opportunity presented itself, they’d be ready. 
 

I understand there’s this desire to defend every aspect of our team, but our overall approach to team building this year has been very poor. It’s one of two things, and there’s no amount of you defending the team or Noeller screaming about how we don’t know everything happening behind the scenes that can make it any different - either our scouts suddenly for the first team in their tenure here did a terrible job this year or our coach and our scouts aren’t exactly seeing eye to eye 

 

 

[GCn20]

16 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Agree. Either we gotta double motion which is fine, takes guys out of cover and clears up passing lanes for Zach. Or we play Demski like schoen and gmc like Demski but I don’t like that drop off. 
 

I like bolo, I wonder about starting him though in this case. seems like an odd fit and leaves us with no back up ni wr. Guessing he will rotate a lot. 
 

hate the secondary. No back up cover guy. It’s a huge risk. I imagine if any one gets hurt again we will slide ba over to that spot and plug one of the nucks in at s. 
 

Hope we continue to see more of the 30 front.  

There is no question losing Schoen and the trade offs we have to make is a big loss. Hopefully he is back in the playoffs and we take care of business on Saturday so that the next couple weeks don't matter after that. If Schoen is out for the season, well....Walters may have to so some work.

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

And if we were actually managing things properly, you wouldn’t have to jump through so many hoops to try and explain what the team is doing.

Our practice roster has been mismanaged all year. Same as last year. Maybe if we didn’t waste spots on guys who were never going to make the roster, we could’ve brought in guys who actually had a shot at contributing and let them spend the year here getting up to speed on things. Maybe we could actually try developing a guy, giving him time to practice with the team so that if the opportunity presented itself, they’d be ready. 
 

I understand there’s this desire to defend every aspect of our team, but our overall approach to team building this year has been very poor. It’s one of two things, and there’s no amount of you defending the team or Noeller screaming about how we don’t know everything happening behind the scenes that can make it any different - either our scouts suddenly for the first team in their tenure here did a terrible job this year or our coach and our scouts aren’t exactly seeing eye to eye 

 

 

I'm not defending anything. Wasting spots on guys who will never make the roster? How many guys do you suppose make the roster of the teams that bring them in league wide? You are being completely unrealistic. The CFL PR for every team has always been a revolving door and always will be. You don't know what some of these guys on there will do in the future. Alston, Fox, etc could very well end up as all-stars in this league for all we know. Please name me one player in the past 10 years that was brought in by any team, put on the PR to begin the season, and then made an impact before that year was out. There are probably a couple....but I can't think of one....can you?

[Rich]

18 minutes ago, Mike said:

And if we were actually managing things properly, you wouldn’t have to jump through so many hoops to try and explain what the team is doing.

Our practice roster has been mismanaged all year. Same as last year. Maybe if we didn’t waste spots on guys who were never going to make the roster, we could’ve brought in guys who actually had a shot at contributing and let them spend the year here getting up to speed on things. Maybe we could actually try developing a guy, giving him time to practice with the team so that if the opportunity presented itself, they’d be ready. 
 

I understand there’s this desire to defend every aspect of our team, but our overall approach to team building this year has been very poor. It’s one of two things, and there’s no amount of you defending the team or Noeller screaming about how we don’t know everything happening behind the scenes that can make it any different - either our scouts suddenly for the first team in their tenure here did a terrible job this year or our coach and our scouts aren’t exactly seeing eye to eye 

 

 

Has the loss of Rigmaiden back to BC finally caught up to our neg list?

[Booch]

7 minutes ago, Mike said:

And if we were actually managing things properly, you wouldn’t have to jump through so many hoops to try and explain what the team is doing.

Our practice roster has been mismanaged all year. Same as last year. Maybe if we didn’t waste spots on guys who were never going to make the roster, we could’ve brought in guys who actually had a shot at contributing and let them spend the year here getting up to speed on things. Maybe we could actually try developing a guy, giving him time to practice with the team so that if the opportunity presented itself, they’d be ready. 
 

I understand there’s this desire to defend every aspect of our team, but our overall approach to team building this year has been very poor. It’s one of two things, and there’s no amount of you defending the team or Noeller screaming about how we don’t know everything happening behind the scenes that can make it any different - either our scouts suddenly for the first team in their tenure here did a terrible job this year or our coach and our scouts aren’t exactly seeing eye to eye 

 

 

more so this.....and the leaning toward fav's and familiarity with guys who been here forever...not necessarily a smart course of action with an older team in key spots...with zero coverage behind them in abilities

I agree our PR management as of late is horrible....been banging that drum a while now, and has zero to do with this yip yappin about "we don't know whats behind the scenes"..."there must be a reason we not privy to"..."yeah we won 2 cups.....well going on 2 yrs ago now"   and on and on and on.

We wasted PR spot all yr on guys who will never amount to anything, and now basically have to use a converted RB as a receiver to cover a injury....Sure he has done a few good things...sporadically but we can do gadget stuff with our true Strs...hello Demski..Bailey...Grant....and not take those reps away them with a few gadget plays....trust me Mcrae scares nobody as a receiver, we carried a guy for 2+ yrs....never used him properly...and dumped him....Have some other guy all yr here....he doesnt get a chance....if he not worthy of even a chance to show anything...why he here then...move on and restock....something we have not done last 2 yrs at any position really...and thats a fail any way you slice it

We starting 9 Canadians tomorrow and can't even utilize that with rostering capable import back-up players who could make an impact as rotation and injury replacements in game...thank god tho we have that fullback...wasting a spot for an actual player who could have a future here get valuable reps and take load off some of our vet defensive stars...that would make too much sense tho

12 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I'm not defending anything. Wasting spots on guys who will never make the roster? How many guys do you suppose make the roster of the teams that bring them in league wide? You are being completely unrealistic. The CFL PR for every team has always been a revolving door and always will be. You don't know what some of these guys on there will do in the future. Alston, Fox, etc could very well end up as all-stars in this league for all we know. Please name me one player in the past 10 years that was brought in by any team, put on the PR to begin the season, and then made an impact before that year was out. There are probably a couple....but I can't think of one....can you?

Bailey for one off top my head with us

And yes...PR's should be a revolving door, you evaluate...even give an opportunity...then keep and grow...or cut bait...we havnt done that for good part of 2 seasons....look at other teams...they have

3 minutes ago, Rich said:

Has the loss of Rigmaiden back to BC finally caught up to our neg list?

no

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Rich said:

Has the loss of Rigmaiden back to BC finally caught up to our neg list?

I don't think so. Look at the talent that has gone straight to our 45 man from recruitment.

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

more so this.....and the leaning toward fav's and familiarity with guys who been here forever...not necessarily a smart course of action with an older team in key spots...with zero coverage behind them in abilities

I agree our PR management as of late is horrible....been banging that drum a while now, and has zero to do with this yip yappin about "we don't know whats behind the scenes"..."there must be a reason we not privy to"..."yeah we won 2 cups.....well going on 2 yrs ago now"   and on and on and on.

We wasted PR spot all yr on guys who will never amount to anything, and now basically have to use a converted RB as a receiver to cover a injury....Sure he has done a few good things...sporadically but we can do gadget stuff with our true Strs...hello Demski..Bailey...Grant....and not take those reps away them with a few gadget plays....trust me Mcrae scares nobody as a receiver, we carried a guy for 2+ yrs....never used him properly...and dumped him....Have some other guy all yr here....he doesnt get a chance....if he not worthy of even a chance to show anything...why he here then...move on and restock....something we have not done last 2 yrs at any position really...and thats a fail any way you slice it

We starting 9 Canadians tomorrow and can't even utilize that with rostering capable import back-up players who could make an impact as rotation and injury replacements in game...thank god tho we have that fullback...wasting a spot for an actual player who could have a future here get valuable reps and take load off some of our vet defensive stars...that would make too much sense tho

Teams around the league have to use the PR for scrub NATs and Globals. Just a fact of life with our limited roster size. You can't cover off every position on the field with capable backups coming off the PR. There are only 10 spots.

[Booch]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I don't think so. Look at the talent that has gone straight to our 45 man from recruitment.

Teams around the league have to use the PR for scrub NATs and Globals. Just a fact of life with our limited roster size. You can't cover off every position on the field with capable backups coming off the PR. There are only 10 spots.

Obviously....but you should have some on the PR who can step in and also be useful...we have a couple but refuse to use them....for various reasons....what makes one think some would want to stick around after the season...when they saw how some things played out this season..

[GCn20]

9 minutes ago, Booch said:

more so this.....and the leaning toward fav's and familiarity with guys who been here forever...not necessarily a smart course of action with an older team in key spots...with zero coverage behind them in abilities

I agree our PR management as of late is horrible....been banging that drum a while now, and has zero to do with this yip yappin about "we don't know whats behind the scenes"..."there must be a reason we not privy to"..."yeah we won 2 cups.....well going on 2 yrs ago now"   and on and on and on.

We wasted PR spot all yr on guys who will never amount to anything, and now basically have to use a converted RB as a receiver to cover a injury....Sure he has done a few good things...sporadically but we can do gadget stuff with our true Strs...hello Demski..Bailey...Grant....and not take those reps away them with a few gadget plays....trust me Mcrae scares nobody as a receiver, we carried a guy for 2+ yrs....never used him properly...and dumped him....Have some other guy all yr here....he doesnt get a chance....if he not worthy of even a chance to show anything...why he here then...move on and restock....something we have not done last 2 yrs at any position really...and thats a fail any way you slice it

We starting 9 Canadians tomorrow and can't even utilize that with rostering capable import back-up players who could make an impact as rotation and injury replacements in game...thank god tho we have that fullback...wasting a spot for an actual player who could have a future here get valuable reps and take load off some of our vet defensive stars...that would make too much sense tho

Bailey for one off top my head with us

And yes...PR's should be a revolving door, you evaluate...even give an opportunity...then keep and grow...or cut bait...we havnt done that for good part of 2 seasons....look at other teams...they have

no

So Rasheed, 4 years ago got into 4 games for us. One every 4-5 years and that's in our competitive hey day. As for rotating guys out of our PR...I think we can't be sour grapes about getting rid of guys on the PR while at the same time saying we are not rotating guys off the PR enough. 

[JCon]

We carried an extra global punter all season. 

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

Obviously....but you should have some on the PR who can step in and also be useful...we have a couple but refuse to use them....for various reasons....what makes one think some would want to stick around after the season...when they saw how some things played out this season..

Ding ding ding....we do have guys on the PR who are likely very useful and are not dressing them. I'm not arguing that. My argument was that we are wasting spots on the PR on players who don't deserve that spot. I disagree.

1 minute ago, JCon said:

We carried an extra global punter all season. 

We did and we should have, and based on our current global punters performance I am not so sure we should have let him go just yet, Had Sheahan been more consistent I doubt we hang onto the other guy for as long.

Edited October 20, 2023 by GCn20

[Mike]

18 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Please name me one player in the past 10 years that was brought in by any team, put on the PR to begin the season, and then made an impact before that year was out. There are probably a couple....but I can't think of one....can you?

This right here tells me it’s no wonder your perception of our practice roster is so warped … if you can’t name a single player, no wonder you think the way we use our practice roster is fine.

I’ll just use BC and Toronto over the past few years as examples, because those are the only teams I really worry about.

Jalon Edwards-Cooper, Manny Rugamba, Alex Hollins, Keon Hatcher, Brandon Barlow, Damonte Coxie, Dewayne Hendrix, Jonathan Jones … off the top of my head in the past two years

[GCn20]

16 minutes ago, Rich said:

Has the loss of Rigmaiden back to BC finally caught up to our neg list?

There is absolutely no doubt that Rigmaiden is one of the best talent evaluators in the CFL and losing him will always have some impact. He was just one of several excellent talent evaluators we had though. I like the talent we are bringing in still. Heck, some of the guys we have on the PR right now are likely future impact guys with us.

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, Mike said:

This right here tells me it’s no wonder your perception of our practice roster is so warped … if you can’t name a single player, no wonder you think the way we use our practice roster is fine.

I’ll just use BC and Toronto over the past few years as examples, because those are the only teams I really worry about.

Jalon Edwards-Cooper, Manny Rugamba, Alex Hollins, Keon Hatcher, Brandon Barlow, Damonte Coxie, Dewayne Hendrix, Jonathan Jones … off the top of my head in the past two years

All turned out to be decent players for sure. 174 players have gone through CFL PRs in the past 3 seasons according to CFL transactions page. You have come up with a list of 8 guys. On the outside chance you missed even another 8...that's a 10% batting average of guys on the PR developing into CFL starters. One guy a year on average. I think once Haba gets more seasoning he will be that guy for us, so tell me how much worse we are using our PR than everyone else again.

Edited October 20, 2023 by GCn20

[Mike]

Just now, GCn20 said:

All turned out to be decent players for sure. 174 players have gone through CFL PRs in the past 3 seasons. You have come up with a list of 8 guys. On the outside chance you missed even another 8...that's a 10% batting average of guys on the PR developing into CFL starters. One guy a year on average. I think once Haba gets more seasoning he will be that guy for us, so tell me how much worse we are using our PR than everyone else again.

Move the goalposts again lol you told me I couldn’t name one guy in ten years and I named eight in two seasons on two teams without even really thinking about it for more than five minutes and now you’re going to claim that’s the extent of the list so you can throw out some bullshit percentages? 

This is the stuff I’m talking about, you’re just so blind to the reality of the situation because you’re dead set on defending our team at all costs. 

[Booch]

but we havnt hardly developed any....and thats pretty bad when u look at it...and who's to say Haba will even wanna stick around when he sees who is taking his spot on the roster essentially...he owes us nothing

some just don't see the issue and thats fine...but I will stand by a few of the other posters who are on the side of the poor PR use and less than stellar roster management  camp....it's plain as day and people like to ignore it because of recent success...tho from my count we are 2 yrs removed from that success now, and as a team this yr have show a lot of regression and cause for concern despite having a chance to be hosting the WF....Thankfully this yr there are 5 pretty pathetic teams in the league....and we actually have lost to 3 of them...which also is not a good sign...

1 minute ago, Mike said:

Move the goalposts again lol you told me I couldn’t name one guy in ten years and I named eight in two seasons on two teams without even really thinking about it for more than five minutes and now you’re going to claim that’s the extent of the list so you can throw out some bullshit percentages? 

This is the stuff I’m talking about, you’re just so blind to the reality of the situation because you’re dead set on defending our team at all costs. 

exactly.

[Noeller]

fwiw...

 

[rebusrankin]

Walker was primarily a PR guy in 21, rotational in 22 and a starter in 23. Houston was essentially the same.  Who are those guys now?

Machino has been on the PR for 3 years and lets be honest, he's never going to play or contribute.

[Booch]

Just look at this yr...we desperately needed a kr...in a bad way....but did nothing...sat on our butts till it got almost embarrassingly unbearable...then brought a guy in finally...with CFL experience...but didnt use him, mainly because we locked up a DA spot with a pointless player

We had a new DE who was working real well...then got hurt....did diddly...as in several games watched our dline get worn down....and saw our 2 elite ends wear down and tho played well....impactful plays fell way off the table....did nothing....we brought a guy in...and I watched 3 practices with him, and he looks to be even more impactful than Haba could be...but didnt use him or even give him a shot, which if anything would have helped out the rotation...but didnt....mainly again because his entry to the roster was blocked by that pointless use of a DA.

We then had a Canadian go down and instead of rostering Kelly...who killed it on ST in pre season....and has since he finally got back on the roster we rostered Schmeckle for no particular reason....who doesnt play teams which badly needed an infusion, and maybe took 6 reps in total and did absolutely nothing with them.

Earlier in year as well...even tho we listed Fatboi as our 8th oline guy...rostered that Szott guy as another oline guy...who I dont think even tied up his cleats....stood there all game...then subsequantly got cut....guess his standing around performance didnt impress enough

How anyone can defend any of this, or say was good use of anything is beyond me....the most baffling part yet was cutting our only real FB...A Canadian one we actually drafted after 2 yrs....a guy who has played the position who could do exactly what Action Jackson does...without eating up a DA spot...did it take 2 yrs for our coach to make the decision he wasnt good enough??...like wtf

[bearpants]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I like bolo, I wonder about starting him though in this case. seems like an odd fit and leaves us with no back up ni wr. Guessing he will rotate a lot. 
 

Don't need a back up NI receiver... we are currently starting 9 Canadians so if any receiver gets hurt, McCrae and Grant are available to fill in

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Has the loss of Rigmaiden back to BC finally caught up to our neg list?

I don’t think it ends with that either. We haven’t signed a good player from with in the cfl in a while that didn’t play with us. We used to pick up un appreciated or under valued guys from other teams. 

 

30 minutes ago, bearpants said:

Don't need a back up NI receiver... we are currently starting 9 Canadians so if any receiver gets hurt, McCrae and Grant are available to fill in

I know, however it becomes problematic if more than one guy goes down, and we lack guys to fill a woli role. The top end depth of our wr core will keep us flush. But we are losing a lot of versatility and fit. 

[Booch]

25 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I don’t think it ends with that either. We haven’t signed a good player from with in the cfl in a while that didn’t play with us. We used to pick up un appreciated or under valued guys from other teams. 

 

I know, however it becomes problematic if more than one guy goes down, and we lack guys to fill a woli role. The top end depth of our wr core will keep us flush. But we are losing a lot of versatility and fit. 

in several positions to be honest...other than non starting calibre lb's and tweeners where we are flush...tho one the tweeners Cole should be a full time rotation piece used all over the field

[JuranBoldenRules]

15 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Lawler gets doubled up a ton by other teams, hence his lower production. He is seldom left one-on-one.

Yes and no.  There hasn't been a lot of diversity in his usage.  There's no real "double teams" in coverage.  It's more trying to get a 4 on 3 or even 5 on 3 in a given route for a defense.  When you almost exclusively run one guy vertical from the slot he's not going to get a lot of space for himself.

When they've gone to more of a quick look and forcing the D to defend vertical and wide, there's been space for everyone including Lawler.

Edited October 20, 2023 by JuranBoldenRules

[HardCoreBlue]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

And if we were actually managing things properly, you wouldn’t have to jump through so many hoops to try and explain what the team is doing.

Our practice roster has been mismanaged all year. Same as last year. Maybe if we didn’t waste spots on guys who were never going to make the roster, we could’ve brought in guys who actually had a shot at contributing and let them spend the year here getting up to speed on things. Maybe we could actually try developing a guy, giving him time to practice with the team so that if the opportunity presented itself, they’d be ready. 
 

I understand there’s this desire to defend every aspect of our team, but our overall approach to team building this year has been very poor. It’s one of two things, and there’s no amount of you defending the team or Noeller screaming about how we don’t know everything happening behind the scenes that can make it any different - either our scouts suddenly for the first team in their tenure here did a terrible job this year or our coach and our scouts aren’t exactly seeing eye to eye 

 

 

Here's the dynamic that gets at the meat and potatoes of this issue, not from the X's and O's side of the equation but from the people side of the equation.