Blue Bombers - 2023 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Rod Black]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I think Brady will come out of the West. The selection committee already chose him over Collaros, who is a superior QB candidate than VA.  It would defy logic for them to select BO over ZC than turn around and select VA over BO. By that same logic, BO would have to be favored over Kelly whose metrics and performance were also not as good as ZC. It's MOP not MVP. Kelly has not been that outstanding really....or at least not as outstanding as ZC on pretty much every measurable statistic. Also, one should remember the CFL is absolutely craving a NAT winner for MOP. It shouldn't matter...but it will.

Makes sense. Yet, the overall selectors won’t recognize the excellence that Brady runs the Nebraska drill. They wouldn’t even know what a Nebraska drill is

[Fatty Liver]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

TBH, Brady may not even get out of the West. League wide VA has a lot of love to represent the West MOP and right or wrong QB's do get more consideration. As far as MOC overall Brady has contributed more but Betts has broken records and has a lot of love from the league. It is possible Betts and VA beat him out of the West.

 

As for league wide awards, I just can't see anyway Brady beats out Kelly if he makes it out of the West. Nor do I see anyway VA would beat Kelly. While it may not be my vote I just don't see a scenario where Kelly isn't awarded MOP.

As to CDN whether it is Brady or Betts representing the West, they will win the league award IMO.both

Brady has been amazing and arguably one of the most impressive players this season, but he may not even but up for any league awards come time......

 

It would be a travesty, but could happen, not a given Brady receives the nomination for MOC in the West.  Prejudice is in play and Betts and Ford are both going to receive multiple votes, it could come down to a vote splitting scenario were the best candidate doesn't get the nomination.

 

 

[Noeller]

this really comes down to a lot of people with votes who don't really understand what they're voting for.... and there is going to be a league-wide desire to jerk off the Argos for their nearly-undefeated season. Simply put, as the "most important player" on this Argos team, Kelly will get the MOP votes. Not for anything he did, really, but for what the Argos did as a team and his role within that team. 

[Booch]

15 minutes ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

TBH, Brady may not even get out of the West. League wide VA has a lot of love to represent the West MOP and right or wrong QB's do get more consideration. As far as MOC overall Brady has contributed more but Betts has broken records and has a lot of love from the league. It is possible Betts and VA beat him out of the West.

 

As for league wide awards, I just can't see anyway Brady beats out Kelly if he makes it out of the West. Nor do I see anyway VA would beat Kelly. While it may not be my vote I just don't see a scenario where Kelly isn't awarded MOP.

As to CDN whether it is Brady or Betts representing the West, they will win the league award IMO.

 

Brady has been amazing and arguably one of the most impressive players this season, but he may not even but up for any league awards come time......

 

What records did he break...As far as I know it's just sacks by a Canadian...Maybe if sacks ever it could hold more weight, but he has also gone stretches where you didn't even know he was playing.

BO much the opposite...you know he's there every game...Will be the second highest rushing total by a Canadian in a season...Has the most 100 yards game in a season by a Canadian...ever...Has a Canadian ever Eclipsed 2000yards from scrimmage before?...that I not sure about but is significant none the less, also has 13 TD's on offence...I believe thats the most this year...definitely a significant accomplishment compared to Bett's one real significant number.....I can't see BO not getting at least 1 award league wide

[Noeller]

Honestly, the only reason people are talking about Betts is because he's Canadian. His season wasn't that different than Willie's... they had stretches of dominance followed by lulls then put up more stats again. As Booch says, Brady was consistently great all year long and is far and away the Most Outstanding Canadian... and possibly the MOP of the league. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

8 minutes ago, Booch said:

What records did he break...As far as I know it's just sacks by a Canadian...Maybe if sacks ever it could hold more weight, but he has also gone stretches where you didn't even know he was playing.

BO much the opposite...you know he's there every game...Will be the second highest rushing total by a Canadian in a season...Has the most 100 yards game in a season by a Canadian...ever...Has a Canadian ever Eclipsed 2000yards from scrimmage before?...that I not sure about but is significant none the less, also has 13 TD's on offence...I believe thats the most this year...definitely a significant accomplishment compared to Bett's one real significant number.....I can't see BO not getting at least 1 award league wide

Jon Cornish had over 2000 yards from scrimmage in 2013…..when he won MOC and MOP. Betts has put up one big fancy stat but has disappeared at times. Brady has carried the Bombers this year, especially late on games when we were grinding out the clock in wins or when Zach was just a bit off. He should get the MOC hands down, and Betts can get the MODP. And it would be crazy to see Brady get the West MOP nom and not the MOC nom since Betts was not considered better than VAJ for that award, so BO>VAJ>Betts if logic prevails. A big ask, I know. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by TrueBlue4ever

[Jesse]

6 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Honestly, the only reason people are talking about Betts is because he's Canadian. His season wasn't that different than Willie's... they had stretches of dominance followed by lulls then put up more stats again. As Booch says, Brady was consistently great all year long and is far and away the Most Outstanding Canadian... and possibly the MOP of the league. 

Ok now, he’s the league sack leader by a large margin. Canadian or not he’d be getting his press and MODP consideration.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Jesse

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Ok now, he’s the league sack leader by a large margin. Canadian or not he’d be getting his press and MODP consideration.

The only issue I have with Betts season is that even though he led the league in sacks he was also the player that teams ran straight at for big yardage. Both of our victories over BC were in large part because it was him vs. BO mano y mano and BO won that battle decisively. We ran straight at him and he was garbage vs the run, and every other team clued in on that too and it hurt the Lions down the stretch. However, his sack numbers are impressive and that merits him consideration for MODP and MOC. I just think his weakness vs the run should make BO the winner of MOC.

Edited October 26, 2023 by GCn20

[Noeller]

I looked at the league stats page, and I don't see knockdowns listed on there... but when you combine that with his sack totals, Willie had a really great year. I'm not saying he's going to beat Betts, I'm just saying that Betts is wildly overrated. 

[GCn20]

Just now, Noeller said:

I looked at the league stats page, and I don't see knockdowns listed on there... but when you combine that with his sack totals, Willie had a really great year. I'm not saying he's going to beat Betts, I'm just saying that Betts is wildly overrated. 

He is probably the best pass rusher in the league right now but there are some significant flaws to his game too.

[wpgallday1960]

Brady may or may not come out of the west as MOP but should as MOC.  MOP won’t matter because the Eastern media will likely give Kelly the win.  Not saying he doesn’t deserve it but the bias for him has been obvious all season.

[Noeller]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

He is probably the best pass rusher in the league right now 

I'm personally going to WILDLY disagree with that, but I'd like to defer to Booch, JBR and other notables on who they think is the best pure pass rusher in the league right now...

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I'm personally going to WILDLY disagree with that, but I'd like to defer to Booch, JBR and other notables on who they think is the best pure pass rusher in the league right now...

In a vacuum it's Betts, however, no one is set free to do so nearly as much as he is and that is my point. He is a guy that all you can do is point him at the QB and say go and hope teams don't exploit the weaknesses he has outside the pass rush. He gets home on the QB though...there is no denying that...17 sacks. Personally, I think he is probably the best pure pass rusher but there are a few DEs I would rather have because they play a complete game. Pass rush is only one aspect of a DE's job...unfortunately it is attached to one of footballs big glory stats.

Edited October 26, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

He is probably the best pass rusher in the league right now but there are some significant flaws to his game too.

he's a decent pass rusher now, but it's basically just all a speed rush technique.....he was next to non existent prior to this year, and tailed off a bit once teams figured out his schtick and just adjusted to force him out wide and deep......is good in backside pursuit after yards are gained by a RB , but thats also do to his lack of recognizing or respecting run as well....which doesn't make him a great well rounded d lineman in my opinion...Where as you have a guy like Jeffcoat who will use speed/technique...But also just bully his way and over power guys to collapse a pocket....and WJ who uses a combo of everything, as well as leads league...again in knockdowns....Betts gets/got a lot of props and love like most of the lions did early in the year before they...mainly the defence got exposed to what it was...and teams adapted and abused them...especially in the run game

7 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I'm personally going to WILDLY disagree with that, but I'd like to defer to Booch, JBR and other notables on who they think is the best pure pass rusher in the league right now...

kinda hit on that in previous post while u were typing this....But when healthy...Jeffcoat is best D-lineman ....all around D-lineman in the league...hands down..Technique...Power...Containment...killer against the run....just the best

[Jesse]

9 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I'm personally going to WILDLY disagree with that, but I'd like to defer to Booch, JBR and other notables on who they think is the best pure pass rusher in the league right now...

You can't say he only does one thing and also not acknowledge the fact he does that one thing well.

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

he's a decent pass rusher now, but it's basically just all a speed rush technique.....he was next to non existent prior to this year, and tailed off a bit once teams figured out his schtick and just adjusted to force him out wide and deep......is good in backside pursuit after yards are gained by a RB , but thats also do to his lack of recognizing or respecting run as well....which doesn't make him a great well rounded d lineman in my opinion...Where as you have a guy like Jeffcoat who will use speed/technique...But also just bully his way and over power guys to collapse a pocket....and WJ who uses a combo of everything, as well as leads league...again in knockdowns....Betts gets/got a lot of props and love like most of the lions did early in the year before they...mainly the defence got exposed to what it was...and teams adapted and abused them...especially in the run game

Totally. My point in all of this is that his coaches don't even task him with anything but pass rush, and he's good at it, but certainly he is not a well rounded DE. Betts is very good at figuring out where the QB will be as opposed to really strong in pursuit...it's a knack he's got and I'll give him credit for that. Roll out or run on him and he's a liability.

1 minute ago, Jesse said:

You can't say he only does one thing and also not acknowledge the fact he does that one thing well.

He does it very well. The numbers don't lie. It's why he will get more consideration that he should for MOC.

Edited October 26, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

In a vacuum it's Betts, however, no one is set free to do so nearly as much as he is and that is my point. He is a guy that all you can do is point him at the QB and say go and hope teams don't exploit the weaknesses he has outside the pass rush. He gets home on the QB though...there is no denying that...17 sacks. Personally, I think he is probably the best pure pass rusher but there are a few DEs I would rather have because they play a complete game. Pass rush is only one aspect of a DE's job...unfortunately it is attached to one of footballs big glory stats.

If yu noticed last half the season teams just used his momentum and lack of size to just force and continue him outside wide and deep...more times than not he was 4 to 6 yards past the QB...kudos to him for using his motor to catch back up to the play, but he has a very limited repertoire of moves other than the speed aspect....

[GCn20]

Just now, Booch said:

If yu noticed last half the season teams just used his momentum and lack of size to just force and continue him outside wide and deep...more times than not he was 4 to 6 yards past the QB...kudos to him for using his motor to catch back up to the play, but he has a very limited repertoire of moves other than the speed aspect....

Yea...I'm certainly not advocating that he is the best DE in the league just that he is really good at putting himself in position for sacks.

[Pete Catan's Ghost]

When looking at BO's body of work, you can't underestimate his importance as a blocker.

[GCn20]

15 minutes ago, Pete Catan's Ghost said:

When looking at BO's body of work, you can't underestimate his importance as a blocker.

Nor can you overlook the fact that we have pretty much put many games on his back, he wasn't racking up stats in garbage time. We dared teams to stop him and they couldn't. He didn't have 5 or 6 big games against wimpy teams to pad his stats, he ran over everyone.

[17to85]

If Brady wasn't rolling the Bombers offense was sunk.  Guy is the heartbeat of the Bombers offense this year.  

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

If Brady wasn't rolling the Bombers offense was sunk.  Guy is the heartbeat of the Bombers offense this year.  

If Brady wasn't rolling we may have found another way, but it's sooooo much easier when he is....and there is no doubt at all going into ANY game this year what our plan was. A steady diet of BO for the W. Teams knew it, prepared for it, and failed to stop him. That is the very definition of outstanding imo.  Our ability to run the rock in the 2nd half won us many games.

Edited October 26, 2023 by GCn20

[johnzo]

16 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

If Brady wasn't rolling we may have found another way,

I remember the times -- mostly Lapo times -- when fourth quarter leads were meaningless and the Bombers O simply couldn't close out games, we'd usually go 2-and-out when the chips were down.  hell, I think those Lapo teams were the inspiration for the "no lead is safe" catchphrase.

I don't have the numbers to prove it, but I think our clutch running game has won several games for us this year. If I had infinite time I'd look at how often Brady O. carries the ball in the fourth quarter of a one-score game -- my impression is that the higher the stakes, the more he gets the ball.

[Noeller]

 

 

[Rod Black]

23 minutes ago, Noeller said:

 

 

Not repeating. Just adding. Jets change star time before West Final.