Week 9 - Lions @ Blue Bombers - GDT

[Jesse]

19 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Collaros being the only MOP candidate through the first half of the season.  I can't even imagine casting a vote for someone else.

There's no QB's close to him.  There's no RB's or receivers having exceptional seasons, I guess pending what Lawler can put up with Collaros and Schoen in a little more than half a season.

Betts and Jefferson on D are having great seasons but don't think they'll be in the MOP discussion.

Demario Houston is turning over a crap ton of balls...

[GCn20]

43 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Yeah there's about 10 plays a game that determine the outcome usually.  If you can have fresh guys pursuing a running QB on two of them, probably win that one.  If Schoen catches the ball, if Oliviera doesn't fumble, if no pick six.  Each and every one increases your chance of winning, right?

The point is when you have McCrae mostly standing on the sidelines (or bobbling punts), Jackson mostly standing on the sidelines and you could potentially actually have an impactful player out on the field for those big plays, or have your Jefferson/Jeffcoats out there at 80% energy instead of 40%, you've increased your chances of making one of the plays to win the game.  The chances of the guys doing their job and executing increases when you have better players on the field as close to full capability as possible in a football game.

If you make the choice to have more or less dead spots on your roster with a shallow DL but the luxury of having a couple Americans with very little role on O on top of an American kicker (obviously needed but has consequences through the roster), you've handicapped yourself and made the margin to victory thinner.

I agree with your synopsis. I don't agree that our roster construction, in and of itself, will ever cost us a game. I do agree that it can make winning harder. 

I would like to see MOS change it up. Not gonna get fired up about it though.

Edited August 5, 2023 by GCn20

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Mr. Perfect said:

Lots of things went wrong that drive. Absurdly soft coverage by both corners allowed Crum to play pitch and catch on that series, and Bighill's absolute comical whiff at the 10 yard line (or so) on Crum were brutal. I just think blaming that game as a whole on roster management when you consider everything that happened that game, IMO, is an extreme exaggeration.

Time and time again, O'Shea preaches execution. If we do our job and execute, the game isn't close.

The ole coach versus player ie he didn’t execute versus he didn’t make the right call.

[GCn20]

13 hours ago, Booch said:

been better since Exume got here tho...if and when we get Miller and Hansen back....along with Grant returning we should be good

For sure. Miller has been so integral over the past few years that we were bound to see the difference without him.

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

But you can also see, logically, how the lack of DL rotation had the line gassed in the 4th and arguably cost us in a tight game.......? I don't disagree that we should have won that game "going away" but the fact is it was tight at the end, and if our DL was fresher, there's a good chance they shut Crum down on those runs. It's both things being discussed here. 

On long QB runs I wonder where the Lbers were not the DL. I think Hall putting 6 guys on the DL cost us on those runs.

Edited August 5, 2023 by GCn20

[Goalie]

Mentioned in the Calgary Toronto thread but... Toronto looked like **** when Kelly got hurt. God forbid if Zach ever got hurt but I feel we wouldn't look as bad as other teams do because brown is very capable backup. All Dru does when he gets time is move the ball so think I'd currently put us 1 in the power rankings 

1. Winnipeg 2. Toronto 3. BC 

If Kelly hurt for a game or 2 or more, Toronto not looking great but i feel they sign MBT soon 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Goalie

[Booch]

2 hours ago, Mr. Perfect said:

Perfect example of twisting a narrative to suit your point. If either one of Schoen not dropping that deep pass for a sure touchdown, or Zach not throwing behind Woli late in the fourth happens, we win the game. That's a 14 point swing and has absolutely nothing to do with game day roster management.

On flip side...we missed a few kill shots...and our weak no depth on roster defence didn't hold so we ended up losing...every play in a game matters...and some early in a game have a direct link to stuff at end...and vice versa...Iif we had the defensive depth that game...we still win without the pic 6 and dropped Schoen td

[GCn20]

18 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Mentioned in the Calgary Toronto thread but... Toronto looked like **** when Kelly got hurt. God forbid if Zach ever got hurt but I feel we wouldn't look as bad as other teams do because brown is very capable backup. All Dru does when he gets time is move the ball so think I'd currently put us 1 in the power rankings 

1. Winnipeg 2. Toronto 3. BC 

If Kelly hurt for a game or 2 or more, Toronto not looking great but i feel they sign MBT soon 

Gotta be honest I've watched 4 Toronto games this year and in all of them Kelly was average.

[Goalie]

I think we just stopped playing vs Ottawa. It's that simple. Thought the game was over.  Props to Ottawa for not giving up. Pretty classic cfl finish to that one so it's not like it doesn't happen lots. 

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

Gotta be honest I've watched 4 Toronto games this year and in all of them Kelly was average.

It's definitely their D but just saying he can move the ball at times. The other qb can not 

[Booch]

18 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Mentioned in the Calgary Toronto thread but... Toronto looked like **** when Kelly got hurt. God forbid if Zach ever got hurt but I feel we wouldn't look as bad as other teams do because brown is very capable backup. All Dru does when he gets time is move the ball so think I'd currently put us 1 in the power rankings 

1. Winnipeg 2. Toronto 3. BC 

If Kelly hurt for a game or 2 or more, Toronto not looking great but i feel they sign MBT soon 

Yeah...Brown has 3 yrs here with all these guys...he just needs to play smart and clean and we probably are just fine...he totally impressed me with that rope he fired to Schoen for that TD

 

25 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

For sure. Miller has been so integral over the past few years that we were bound to see the difference without him.

On long QB runs I wonder where the Lbers were not the DL. I think Hall putting 6 guys on the DL cost us on those runs.

The Dline guys had no pursuit left in them..were grabbing at air...and Briggs was aimlessly flailing at nothing...even Biggie on the one made a desperate lunge cause he had no gas left...depth or lack there off cost us that game...nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise..I'm a defensive player...all.my life and I know what gassed defense look like and do...and they were shot

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

On flip side...we missed a few kill shots...and our weak no depth on roster defence didn't hold so we ended up losing...every play in a game matters...and some early in a game have a direct link to stuff at end...and vice versa...Iif we had the defensive depth that game...we still win without the pic 6 and dropped Schoen td

I'm not sure about that. Our secondary, where we had a ton of depth, started playing soft. Our Lbers where depth shouldn't be an issue, were whiffing. Not sure what DL depth would have done against bad D play calling.

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I think we just stopped playing vs Ottawa. It's that simple. Thought the game was over.  Props to Ottawa for not giving up. Pretty classic cfl finish to that one so it's not like it doesn't happen lots. 

It's definitely their D but just saying he can move the ball at times. The other qb can not 

Fair enough

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Gotta be honest I've watched 4 Toronto games this year and in all of them Kelly was average.

Yeah he not all that...hasn't leaned touch...will force things...and truly don't think he can read a defence well yet either...and if the first read isnt immediately there...all bets are off and what he can do...not a long-term recipe for success...and running like he does to.make up for it...he gonna pay

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

Yeah...Brown has 3 yrs here with all these guys...he just needs to play smart and clean and we probably are just fine...he totally impressed me with that rope he fired to Schoen for that TD

 

The Dline guys had no pursuit left in them..were grabbing at air...and Briggs was aimlessly flailing at nothing...even Biggie on the one made a desperate lunge cause he had no gas left...depth or lack there off cost us that game...nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise..I'm a defensive player...all.my life and I know what gassed defense look like and do...and they were shot

OK...so you would have dressed an extra MIKE? Or an extra WIL? Our DL were grasping at air because we were blitzing that entire time and not respecting his legs.

Who would you have dressed that eliminates Biggie being gassed, Briggs being not a great WIL, or the secondary playing soft?

I am certainly not going to argue that our DL wasn't gassed and substitutions there may have helped, but there was far more wrong with our D than that in our final 3, right from playcalling on down.

Edited August 5, 2023 by GCn20

[Goalie]

Ya I think it's safe to say when u blow a 2 score lead with under 3 minutes to go that perhaps the defensive play calling got a little soft but at the same time, our o could have killed the clock with a first down likely and wouldn't be talking about the L so quite a bit of blame to go around. We play down to teams at times. Did it vs Edmonton for a half also. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Goalie

[Booch]

I would dress 7 lineman minimum who could contribute and be impactful..Thomas and Bennet would not be 2 of.them...Nor.that Putz schmeckle they have on the PR

I have erased that game from memory so would have to look...but wasn't Briggs starting as well...which should never be...we had Cole on roster who prob is our best sideline to sideline linebacker next to Wilson and he was firmly planted on bench...didn't spell anyone off...or come in when we were eviscerated..he been here for 2 yrs..so he knows the system and if coach isn't comfortable having him in...then why he on roster?? Can't have a glut of ST adequate only guys...hence bad roster management

He looked just fine with expanded reps against BC..had some impactful plays...so he would have likely helped in the Ott meltdown 

[GCn20]

7 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Ya I think it's safe to say when u blow a 2 score lead with under 3 minutes to go that perhaps the defensive play calling got a little soft but at the same time, our o could have killed the clock with a first down likely and wouldn't be talking about the L so quite a bit of blame to go around. We play down to teams at times. Did it vs Edmonton for a half also. 

That's true. So many reasons a team loses any game. To pin it on one thing, fairly minor roster management miscues, is not really a fair assessment. At the end of the day we left points off the board, gave some away, and didn't close the game like a winner should.

1 minute ago, Booch said:

I would dress 7 lineman minimum who could contribute and be impactful..Thomas and Bennet would not be 2 of.them...Nor.that Putz schmeckle they have on the PR

I have erased that game from memory so would have to look...but wasn't Briggs starting as well...which should never be...we had Cole on roster who prob is our best sideline to sideline linebacker next to Wilson and he was firmly planted on bench...didn't spell anyone off...or come in when we were eviscerated..he been here for 2 yrs..so he knows the system and if coach isn't comfortable having him in...then why he on roster?? Can't have a glut of ST adequate only guys...hence bad roster management

He looked just fine with expanded reps against BC..had some impactful plays...so he would have likely helped in the Ott meltdown 

I thought it was Maruo..but same difference. Also Cole did play a lot of snaps that game and took a very stupid and costly penalty that extended an Ottawa drive in the 4th.

Edited August 5, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Ya I think it's safe to say when u blow a 2 score lead with under 3 minutes to go that perhaps the defensive play calling got a little soft but at the same time, our o could have killed the clock with a first down likely and wouldn't be talking about the L so quite a bit of blame to go around. We play down to teams at times. Did it vs Edmonton for a half also. 

Hopefully the team has addressed that..and we just step on throats now...and keep stepping

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

That's true. So many reasons a team loses any game. To pin it on one thing, fairly minor roster management miscues, is not really a fair assessment. At the end of the day we left points off the board, gave some away, and didn't close the game like a winner should.

I thought it was Maruo..but same difference.

Yup...either or...

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

That's how well this team is run

That's true. If that's our biggest gripe this season we will be because we are doing everything else pretty good.

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

Hopefully the team has addressed that..and we just step on throats now...and keep stepping

Yup...either or...

Yea..our killer instinct seemed to fade in that one.

[Blue In BC]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I agree with your synopsis. I don't agree that our roster construction, in and of itself, will ever cost us a game. I do agree that it can make winning harder. 

I would like to see MOS change it up. Not gonna get fired up about it though.

It could be argued that the defence against the Redblacks was tired in the 2nd half and played into losing. Obviously 2 turnovers including a pick 6 didn't help. However, you could see the defence was gassed due to a lack of rotational players.

 

 

[Mark F]

Anyone have an ideas on how to improve reffing?

it is approaching dreadful.

I have watched a few Canadian college games, reffing seemed better than what the CFL has right now.

It has been getting worse, yet no indication that I have seen that the league can or will do something. or even thinks there is a problem.

when players have to take a chance on making a remark, things are bad.

the review booth seems to be wonky. 

and Do these  refs ever face some consequence for messing things up?  do they ever have to explain or sdmit an error?

I also think the idea that refs cant be publicly criticised is absurd. every other person in every job, in this world can be criticized. but not refs. stupid.

sick of it.

[Noeller]

It's hard to be a ref... At any level. And because people are so critical about it, it prevents people from wanting to sign up and do the job in the first place. The less people that want to try, the worse it's going to be. We need way more people starting to ref at a grassroots level and work their way up to the pro level.

The constant REFS YOU SUCK attitudes don't help matters at all.

You really want to fix reffing? Sign up and learn how. Be the change you want to see, and all that...

Edited August 5, 2023 by Noeller

[Jesse]

25 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Anyone have an ideas on how to improve reffing?

it is approaching dreadful.

I have watched a few Canadian college games, reffing seemed better than what the CFL has right now.

It has been getting worse, yet no indication that I have seen that the league can or will do something. or even thinks there is a problem.

when players have to take a chance on making a remark, things are bad.

the review booth seems to be wonky. 

and Do these  refs ever face some consequence for messing things up?  do they ever have to explain or sdmit an error?

I also think the idea that refs cant be publicly criticised is absurd. every other person in every job, in this world can be criticized. but not refs. stupid.

sick of it.

The answer to this problem - like so many others - is more money.

Also the stuff Noeller said - it's so hard to recruit and train refs. People are brutal to them from the grassroots on up.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

Anyone have an ideas on how to improve reffing?

it is approaching dreadful.

I have watched a few Canadian college games, reffing seemed better than what the CFL has right now.

It has been getting worse, yet no indication that I have seen that the league can or will do something. or even thinks there is a problem.

when players have to take a chance on making a remark, things are bad.

the review booth seems to be wonky. 

and Do these  refs ever face some consequence for messing things up?  do they ever have to explain or sdmit an error?

I also think the idea that refs cant be publicly criticised is absurd. every other person in every job, in this world can be criticized. but not refs. stupid.

sick of it.

It's the same refs.  That's where the CFL refs come from.

In the past two seasons they've fast tracked a bunch of refs.  I see guys/women who were working WHSFL games I was coaching last year working the lines in the CFL.  Many of these people haven't even officiated football for 5 years at any level.

They weren't good amateur refs.  One particular rookie official I see in the CFL this year could never understand that we had 7 guys on the line if the guy covering the tackle on his side of the field wasn't a wideout, if we used a tight end or had a bunch formation he'd constantly **** it up and call us for No End....even when the guy on the line CHECKED IN WITH HIM!  I see a lot of missed offsides, early movement in the CFL this year.  That's where they have stationed the rookie refs, side judge, line judge.  They've kept the vet officials at back judge, head linesman, umpire.

There's a massive shortage of officials.

One thing they really need to do is clarify the role of the replay official.  If they want to review every play and buzz down if necessary, do that.  But why are there some plays where they are buzzing down with a flag to throw and then nothing on other plays with obvious offsides for example?

[WinnipegGordo]

Why did the official call no end on the Bombers? Was it because Hardrick was more than a yard off the line?

I see some olines that curle away from the line of scrimmage and their tackles look like they are more than a yard from the line. I also wondered why it wasnt called.

Edited August 5, 2023 by WinnipegGordo

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, Blue In BC said:

It could be argued that the defence against the Redblacks was tired in the 2nd half and played into losing. Obviously 2 turnovers including a pick 6 didn't help. However, you could see the defence was gassed due to a lack of rotational players.

 

 

They weren't gassed until late 4th when we allowed Ottawa to dominate TOP and were running a tempo offence. Up until that point we dominated TOP and were not gassed. Tempo gasses defences no matter what your depth is because you CAN'T make substitutions. How pray tell would depth have helped when we couldn't get them on the field?

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Mark F said:

Anyone have an ideas on how to improve reffing?

I'm surprised that they don't have more people working in the booth with the camera angles in which they can call down for flags to be thrown.   I know time is extremely short to make decisions but I do notice several times a game where this could of helped make a big impact on the outcome.