Castillo vs Liegghio

[JuranBoldenRules]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Hot take- Pigrome and Proukop (this year) both suck at short yardage. 

The league as a whole does because teams are so locked into running the wedge play with QB's who have skills running option stuff from Pistol/Shotgun.

Most of these guys coming into pro football today have literally never taken a snap under centre.

[WinnipegGordo]

Hey @DTonOB what are Pigrome and Prukop's stats for 3rd and short this season?

[Noeller]

Has Prukop actually been bad at short yardage? Or are people just mad at the two first down plays from Friday?

[TrueBlue4ever]

30 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Has Prukop actually been bad at short yardage? Or are people just mad at the two first down plays from Friday?

I think you just answered your own question in the second sentence. 

[Booch]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Has Prukop actually been bad at short yardage? Or are people just mad at the two first down plays from Friday?

Yeah he been good on short yardage...no questions there ..it's been the come in on first down trying to get cute plays that have been a major flop

[JohnnyAbonny]

Yeah ok, Prukop isn’t so much bad at short yardage 

@Noeller called it man. I’m just sour about the first down plays, and that terrible pick in the GC. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by JohnnyAbonny

[Jesse]

1 minute ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Yeah ok, Prukop isn’t so much bad at short yardage 

@Noeller called it man. I’m just sour about the first down plays, and that terrible pick in the GC. 

Sure, but how many of those plays need to be stacked up before we stop trying?

[Noeller]

It was two times! I don't think we've seen it before that and until we see it again going forward (don't think we will when ZC is back) it's a lot of rage over nothing. Prukop is great at short yardage and for whatever reason they didn't trust Pigrome as much as they trust a proven veteran, so this is what we have. It's really not a big deal.

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Hot take- Pigrome and Proukop (this year) both suck at short yardage. 

Short yardage is 99% ol play. Comparable out put with a significantly worse ol is much better performance. And he has been much better than comparable. 

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

Yeah he been good on short yardage...no questions there ..it's been the come in on first down trying to get cute plays that have been a major flop

Go back and watch him in the goal line shut downs a couple weeks ago. He still runs way to up right and has missed going off tackle when he didn’t need to.  
 Short yardage isn’t hard, half the guys on our roster could probably execute it as well. Having one guy whose only job is qs is a prime example of poor roster management. (When that guy has no passer upside like prukop) may as well have kept Dominique Davis.  
 You don’t need to be 6’5, or 225, you just need to get low take a snap and fall forward behind the ol. Kevin Glenn was as good as any one at it 

 

[Booch]

Just now, wbbfan said:

Go back and watch him in the goal line shut downs a couple weeks ago. He still runs way to up right and has missed going off tackle when he didn’t need to.  
 Short yardage isn’t hard, half the guys on our roster could probably execute it as well. Having one guy whose only job is qs is a prime example of poor roster management. (When that guy has no passer upside like prukop) may as well have kept Dominique Davis.  
 You don’t need to be 6’5, or 225, you just need to get low take a snap and fall forward behind the ol. Kevin Glenn was as good as any one at it 

 

Yup...agreed...

[bearpants]

9 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Short yardage is 99% ol play. Comparable out put with a significantly worse ol is much better performance. And he has been much better than comparable. 

Disagree… remember late last season in a meaningless game when the team tried to get Mike Miller a goal line TD… I think he got stuffed 3 times the first goal line attempt and then finally got it in two tries in the second time around… there is definitely a skill to it 

[wbbfan]

Just now, Booch said:

Yup...agreed...

Get a guy young like Johnny Augustine. Teach him to hold for kicks, long snap, take a snap and do short yardage, eventually punt and kick to be your super duty back up versatility guy. All for an ni roster spot that can back up at a couple positions. 
 Then dress QBs who are developmental, viable step in guys, and starters. 

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, bearpants said:

Disagree… remember late last season in a meaningless game when the team tried to get Mike Miller a goal line TD… I think he got stuffed 3 times the first goal line attempt and then finally got it in two tries in the second time around… there is definitely a skill to it 

Yeah, the ol got beat. We had a 4th string lt, and a 5th guard from the pr at rt, and a hodge podge of nis and global to go with it. 
 1 yard to go with 1 yard off the ball. The dl doesn’t know when the snap will come. You have to mess up to miss more than 1 or 2 in 100. The 1 or 2 times a defensive player with elite get off has perfect timing and monsters his man solo to blow it up. 
 It just doesn’t take skill to fall forward a yard with a yard off the ball and a jump start. 
 

Another factor to keep in mind with our short yardage package and other teams is we carry an extra ol, and our two sub pack ols are easily the best run pack subs in the cfl. Plus we currently di the fighting marine for short yardage. Brady runs roughshod over teams in that pack. Defences just don’t carry that much beef to counter it. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

Get a guy young like Johnny Augustine. Teach him to hold for kicks, long snap, take a snap and do short yardage, eventually punt and kick to be your super duty back up versatility guy. All for an ni roster spot that can back up at a couple positions. 
 Then dress QBs who are developmental, viable step in guys, and starters. 

Not sure why you'd put a guy out there who is a complete non threat to pass.  You'll get stuffed way more often that way.

[wbbfan]

10 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Not sure why you'd put a guy out there who is a complete non threat to pass.  You'll get stuffed way more often that way.

You mean prukop? Or Davis?  😂 teams aren’t playing the short yardage package different based on who takes the snap. If you try it with 4 or 5 receivers they aren’t gonna play the pass and you’ll see a difference. Not with 1 or 2 guys out wide. 

[JohnnyAbonny]

13 hours ago, Noeller said:

It was two times! I don't think we've seen it before that and until we see it again going forward (don't think we will when ZC is back) it's a lot of rage over nothing. Prukop is great at short yardage and for whatever reason they didn't trust Pigrome as much as they trust a proven veteran, so this is what we have. It's really not a big deal.

On more thought.
1. Unconscious bias. Dakota is an objectively awful first name in most contexts.
2. It’s on the coaches really. Misuse of talent. Plop put that in when Strev/Nichols we’re here and they never took it out after getting Zach. 

Did Montreal leave big Ted White in the game on 1st down when they had Calvillo? 

[wbbfan]

53 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

On more thought.
1. Unconscious bias. Dakota is an objectively awful first name in most contexts.
2. It’s on the coaches really. Misuse of talent. Plop put that in when Strev/Nichols we’re here and they never took it out after getting Zach. 

Did Montreal leave big Ted White in the game on 1st down when they had Calvillo? 

Good 2nd point. It can make sense situationally to go hurry up and run an option pack after a successful short yardage pick up. But it’s gotta be situational. It cant go against the flow of the offense or take Zach out of a rhythm. It can’t go for second unless it’s short and you need to get decent yardage. You can’t do it in a position that takes an end zone shot off the table either. 
 

It makes more sense especially when you bring in the heavy set on 2nd and short to pull a couple guys and run a qb sweep to try and make a big gain than to take Zach and generally lawler off the field. Usually our go to short yardage WRs are Demski woli and Bailey. An imp comes off for the marine currently too. 
If the sweep isn’t going any where on 2nd the qb can throw it away and pick up the first on 3rd down.