3 stars plus hh down town Dru brown

[Mark F]

Pretty sure it was not the first uncalled roughing the passer by elks in the game.

thought Collaros got cranked in the head earlier, looked at the ref, no call. 

[Booch]

Was definitely a RTP on ZC....Checked off most boxes as per the rule....wasn't a malicious shot...I dont think...But the fact he hit him in the head...and doesn't matter what part of body you do it with...it is supposed to be called every time...and wasn't...why I don't know...especially when an injury occurred, but whatever....we soldiered thru like great teams do......it is sad tho when we have seen way less called on a "hit to the head"....one which stands out beinbg WJ jumping up to try and knock a pass down and on his way by his hand brushed the top of the QB's helmet....to the extent I dont think the QB even knew....so define the damn rule and stick to it...any hit to QB in the head while he in the pocket...behind the LOS and or in the motion of throwing outside the pocket...easy peasy...cut and dried....no room or need for interpretation...u touch it...u get flagged

3 stars tho

Brown (for the obvious)

Bailey (gritty catches and runs...and hellacious blocking for his bro's...prime example last night why he is so vital)

BO and BOLO (BO for taking over and not being denied...and sapping the Elks will to tackle...and BOLO stepping up and making key catches...and key blocks)

HH to Rose and Wilson for that vet presence and helping keeps things calm and under control...and getting better with reps....2 key additions

 

[WBBFanWest]

5 minutes ago, JCon said:

Clear as day: 

Any blow above the passer's shoulder,

What's to argue??????

Have you ever met Tburg?

[rebusrankin]

I'm not a ref but I can google search and read. By my count, there a 4 clear violations of the rule on that play. I'd be curious to hear from @Booch or @JuranBoldenRules or @wbbfan on my analysis.

[Booch]

16 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

I'm not a ref but I can google search and read. By my count, there a 4 clear violations of the rule on that play. I'd be curious to hear from @Booch or @JuranBoldenRules or @wbbfan on my analysis.

my opinion is a penalty.....been stated by league any contact to head is a penalty....and we had that clear as day.....and seeing how his neck was bent...it was clearly significant contact

[MOBomberFan]

That we've seen guys get penalized for glancing a QBs helmet with their hands with no impact whatsoever on the outcome of the play or harm to the player is the really frustrating part. No consistency, just wildly swinging from over-protection to open season on a prone QB

[JuranBoldenRules]

8 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

That we've seen guys get penalized for glancing a QBs helmet with their hands with no impact whatsoever on the outcome of the play or harm to the player is the really frustrating part. No consistency, just wildly swinging from over-protection to open season on a prone QB

Sask DL in BC game had a form tackle of a QB upright WITH THE BALL and made contact with head on the way to the ground basically with same area of body Ealy hit Collaros with, upper arm/shoulder, and it was a flag.  Challenged by Sask and upheld.

There's no consistency at all.

[TBURGESS]

3 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

This is the rule.

He clearly lands on him with most of his weight. (#1). He hits him in the head. (#2). He had to dive onto Zach on the ground which means he didn't make an attempt to avoid the hit. (#3). Zach is out of the play at the time of the hit. (#4).

 

Article 5 — Roughing The Passer

Because the act of passing puts the passer in a particularly vulnerable position to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. Once the ball is released, defensive players must avoid all unnecessary contact with the passer. A player shall be penalized for any act of Unnecessary Roughness to the passer, including but not limited to:

1. Contacting the passer in an unnecessary manner, including stuffing him to the ground, violently throwing him to the ground, and landing on him with most of the defender's weight,
2. Any blow above the passer's shoulder,
3. All rushing defenders must attempt to avoid forcibly hitting a passer in the pocket, at or below the knees, either if their path to the passer was unrestricted, or if they are coming off a blocker,
4. Attacking the passer who, after releasing the ball, is either standing still or fading backwards and is obviously out of the play and remains out of the play,
5. When the quarterback slides feet first, all unnecessary contact must be avoided. The slide must be done in a timely manner to allow the defence to avoid such contact.
6. Contacting the passer if either the initial source of contact, or primary source of contact, is the defender's helmet.

#1 He lands on Collaros, but he doesn't "Contacting the passer in an unnecessary manner, including stuffing him to the ground, violently throwing him to the ground, and landing on him with most of the defender's weight," so point 1 doesn't apply.

#2 Hit him in the head, yes. The question is how do you define a blow to the head? Refs on the field & in the office didn't define the hit as a blow to the head. Bomber fans do. It's the best chance to getting a RTP call. 

#3 Avoiding the hit. "Once the ball is released, defensive players must avoid all unnecessary contact with the passer" could come into play. Could the defensive player have pulled up and not hit Collaros? Calls for speculation & how does a ref decide what's unnecessary in the first place?

#4 Collaros wasn't: "is either standing still or fading backwards", so the out of the play portion of the rule doesn't apply. 

I too would like some consistency. The problem is with the way the rules are written in the first place. 

What is a Blow above the shoulder? Is it any touch to the helmet? Is it any touch to the helmet as long as the passer doesn't duck their head? Is it only a massive hit, IE an actual blow to the head? Is it a hit that injures the player? The CFL needs to figure this out so simple glancing hits don't get called.

What is unnecessary? Any hit after the throw? A step then a hit? A push or a shove? Anything more than a touch? Right now its whatever the refs decide it is on any given play. 

When I looked at the hit in full speed, I thought it was a bang bang play with very little if any time for the defender to react. I thought it was a good no call. When Collaros got hurt, I knew that everyone around here would think it was a terrible non call. When MOS challenged it, I thought he might get the overturn because Collaros got hurt & because the slow motion replay's made it look way later than it actually was. When I posted my opinion, I knew that folks would get upset.

 

[rebusrankin]

Withdrawn

Edited August 11, 2023 by rebusrankin

[Sard]

If the contact at 3:20 of this video is roughing the passer:

then what Ealy did to Collaros, mostly landing on his head, is most definitely roughing the passer... regardless of when it happened (ie. before or after Collaros let go of the ball), it was 100% contact with the head in an avoidable situation because if his knee had touched the ground, he was down by contact, so there was no reason for Ealy to even touch him, nevermind fall on his head.

[Sard]

At 1:46 of the highlight video from last night, Ealy was over 5 yards away as Collaros was on his way down and in a very vulnerable position.  Ealy had plenty of room to change direction to avoid the contact.  On top of that Collaros' head was the 1st point of contact.  Whether it was malicious or not (and I don't believe that it was), that should be called RTP every time.

 

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

un·nec·es·sar·y

adjective

 

1. not needed.

    

    

    

   Any contact with a player who isn't live, doesn't have the ball and isn't engaged in the play (eg lying on the turf).

    

   The head contact is just a cherry on top of the sundae.

[WinnipegGordo]

Oshea said he was told it wasn't a penalty because the defender tried to brace himself from landing on Zach.

[Sard]

Just now, WinnipegGordo said:

Oshea said he was told it wasn't a penalty because the defender tried to brace himself from landing on Zach.

Contact with the QBs head when he's the one who caused it by ducking into the contact has been called before, so I don't buy that excuse from the offical/command centre.

[bearpants]

5 hours ago, Stickem said:

I can recall far lesser lesser 'roughing the passer' calls resulting in 15 yarders ....Protecting the qb's in this league is supposed to be the mantra.....that didn't happen.....When a qb. is down and you leap on him that's a penalty...That was as close a call to 'deliberate attempt to injure' as I have seen in awhile.....

even if you want to ignore the rulebook and use some common sense... we've seen multiple occasions of a players hand grazing the helmet called... we've seen multiple occasions of a player gently pushing the QB after he throws it called... the eye test alone tells you in was a - dare I use the word - unnecessary hit, which is therefore pretty easy to call unnecessary roughness... or simply, roughing the passer

[aalgernon]

I think the hit should pretty clearly have been called RTP. The defender had plenty of time to stop, or try to maneuver around Collaros.

I'm actually finding it a little strange how people are framing the matter of "intent" or "maliciousness", Stegall and Dunnigan included. As far as I can tell, Ealy chose to land on Collaros unnecessarily. The suggests that he did intend to hurt him, making the hit, in fact, malicious. It wasn't the most egregious hit I've ever seen, but I don't think calling it dirty is unfair.

Hope he gets a suspension.

[Bubba Zanetti]

57 minutes ago, WinnipegGordo said:

Oshea said he was told it wasn't a penalty because the defender tried to brace himself from landing on Zach.

Braced himself? By sumo splatting a QB in the head that didnt have the ball and was laying on the ground. LMFAO.

I think the factor a lot of people are missing here is that it was a hit to the head plain and simple. Point of contact was Zach's head. Doesnt matter if it was a "bang-bang" play and wasnt late or he tried to "brace" himself whatever the *uck that means. He hit Collaros in the head which is "above the shoulder pads" in the rule book and is 100% roughing the passer. No one can argue against it.

[Rod Black]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

un·nec·es·sar·y

 

adjective

 

1. not needed.

    

    

    

   Any contact with a player who isn't live, doesn't have the ball and isn't engaged in the play (eg lying on the turf).

    

   The head contact is just a cherry on top of the sundae.

You’ll be accused of just twisting words.

Also, wouldn’t the points come off the board? 

[JCon]

14 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Braced himself? By sumo splatting a QB in the head that didnt have the ball and was laying on the ground. LMFAO.

I think the factor a lot of people are missing here is that it was a hit to the head plain and simple. Point of contact was Zach's head. Doesnt matter if it was a "bang-bang" play and wasnt late or he tried to "brace" himself whatever the *uck that means. He hit Collaros in the head which is "above the shoulder pads" in the rule book and is 100% roughing the passer. No one can argue against it.

There's really only one person arguing the other side and, regardless of the situation, that poster would make a contrarian argument. Ignore the troll and move on. 

[BigBlueFanatic]

6 minutes ago, JCon said:

There's really only one person arguing the other side and, regardless of the situation, that poster would make a contrarian argument. Ignore the troll and move on. 

Yup had a “there he is!” moment and went back to leaving his garbage on ignore.

[WinnipegGordo]

22 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Braced himself? By sumo splatting a QB in the head that didnt have the ball and was laying on the ground. LMFAO.

Yeah, that's why O’Shea smirked when he said it.

[TBURGESS]

I'm not arguing the 'other side'. I'm giving my opinion on why I don't think it was RTP. 

Is simply hitting a QB who is on the ground trying to throw the ball automatic RTP? If yes, then change the wording in the rules to reflect that opinion. 

Maybe change the rule so QB's can't try to throw the ball when they are going down to protect them. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

44 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I'm not arguing the 'other side'. I'm giving my opinion on why I don't think it was RTP. 

Is simply hitting a QB who is on the ground trying to throw the ball automatic RTP? If yes, then change the wording in the rules to reflect that opinion. 

Maybe change the rule so QB's can't try to throw the ball when they are going down to protect them. 

The ball was gone two steamboats.  There's no justification for hitting someone in the head in this situation.

[17to85]

I only watched the highlights of the game and I saw multiple examples of the Lks jumping on guys on the turf. That hit on collaros was dirty AF and how it wasn't called is beyond me...

[Booch]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

I'm not arguing the 'other side'. I'm giving my opinion on why I don't think it was RTP. 

Is simply hitting a QB who is on the ground trying to throw the ball automatic RTP? If yes, then change the wording in the rules to reflect that opinion. 

Maybe change the rule so QB's can't try to throw the ball when they are going down to protect them. 

Any hit above the shoulder...basically head is a flagable play...the brunt of the DL plopping down on him was upside his head...and as they say  (Suitor) u need to be in control of your body apparently...hence that BS call on us last yr when an olineman tossed Fatboi into a QB and we got flagged for it..I joking here about about Suitors lame comment...but it's a similar circumstance...that lug didn't need to drop his fat ass in a QB head..especially one prone on the ground flat on his stomach