FajOuettes @ Bombers: Week Of Thread

[Jesse]

14 minutes ago, Noeller said:

There's definitely a half way point between the two opinions. The DL rotation is poor and the usage of players on the game day roster is very obviously not as good as it can be. Anyone paying attention can see that. But I'm happy we're winning and will always give Osh the benefit of the doubt because he's earned it. In the meantime, I pray improper roster use doesn't come back to bite us in a truly important game.

I don’t think it can bite us in a particular game, not in a way you could really notice we’re not going to notice guys running fractions of a second slower late in the game). I more worry about the cumulative affect over the course of a season. 

[Noeller]

27 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I don’t think it can bite us in a particular game, not in a way you could really notice we’re not going to notice guys running fractions of a second slower late in the game). I more worry about the cumulative affect over the course of a season. 

Well that's what I'm saying. It bites us when we get to the playoffs or maybe even the game against BC coming up and maybe Jeffcoat or Lawson or, God forbid, Jefferson goes down... And we have zero depth in the lineup to go in.

[Coorsman]

5 hours ago, greenrider55 said:

Cody is what… 2-9 Vs Winnipeg including playoffs? Yeesh. Not that anyone has a great record Vs Big Blue since 2019.

I'd like to also point out those 2 wins were vs Streveler when Nichols was hurt and we hadn't started Zach yet. So that record actually flatters him. 🤣 

[TrueBlue4ever]

I can agree with the “take a mid-point” approach. But I have yet to see the naysayers offer that up. We have “the biggest fans around” hoping we lose to prove a point, wanting OSH fired, saying it will cost us every week when it hasn’t in 6 seasons, saying OSH is lucky, pathetic, stubborn, smug, head up his ass. Haven’t heard really any “measured criticism” from the loudest critics, and it’s the same wail every game, started before the season even began, and there is no evidence to show it has cost us a win.

Could we lose? Sure. Is it “putrid roster management” or because of another possibility, like maybe our QB playing the Grey Cup with a busted foot, or our OC calling a bizarre game plan, or our kicker missing a convert. Or getting lazy and giving up turnovers to squander a 16 point lead with 3 minutes left. Fact is, when we have had an actual serious problem on the roster it has been addressed. When our starting QB went down in 2019 and our back-up could not win consistently, we traded a top draft pick for the soon-to-be 2 time MOP. When our kicking was really bad in 2021 we brought in Castillo and he won us the Cup. When it seemed to be ironed out, we tried to salvage the young Canadian, and he was pretty good, but missed the one big kick at exactly the wrong time. So we replaced him this year. We had the best Canadian running back in history, but we opted to sign the younger guys and did not show excessive loyalty to him. And now he is a back-up in Toronto and his replacement here is leading the league. So changes are being made, just not for the sake of change like some wish would happen. I am content with the “KISS” model. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it manifests into an actual problem, our track record with this management group is that it will be addressed. But the weekly negativity has been over the top since the get-go IMO, so any push back on the hyperbole is being wrongly labelled as extreme, and knob polishing, and blind to any flaws, and “he is perfect brainwashing” which is not happening actually, and the accusation that we are pretending he is godlike is a BS argument. You want to talk loose hips and other intrinsic factors, go ahead, but I like metrics like wins and losses and knockdowns and tackles and those other measurables. Would be happy to engage in a measured discussion if the critics would stop hurling insults like “you are blind if you can’t see it”, and making false accusations about “but criticism is not allowed” and all the other over the top stuff. But the sky is not falling here, and at times it sure seems to me that it is presented that way by some of the “roster management“ crew. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by TrueBlue4ever

[Mark F]

How about, Start a “roster management” thread.

all the roster discussion goes there.

Some oddball opinions are being pushed hard lately.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Mark F

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, Mark H. said:

DL depth was saved on boat 10.

...and it should be duly noted that Damian "Breacher" Jackson formed a human gangplank allowing these giant men to cross upon his back to the safety of the last lifeboat. God bless.

[Dodge and Burn]

I'm getting tired of only reading roster moaning on both current Bomber threads...

Especially when we are 8-2

Create another thread about roster management...

Edited August 24, 2023 by Dodge and Burn
Added to post

[Jesse]

7 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I can agree with the “take a mid-point” approach. But I have yet to see the naysayers offer that up. We have “the biggest fans around” hoping we lose to prove a point, wanting OSH fired, saying it will cost us every week when it hasn’t in 6 seasons, saying OSH is lucky, pathetic, stubborn, smug, head up his ass. Haven’t heard really any “measured criticism” from the loudest critics, and it’s the same wail every game, started before the season even began, and there is no evidence to show it has cost us a win.

Could we lose? Sure. Is it “putrid roster management” or because of another possibility, like maybe our QB playing the Grey Cup with a busted foot, or our OC calling a bizarre game plan, or our kicker missing a convert. Or getting lazy and giving up turnovers to squander a 16 point lead with 3 minutes left. Fact is, when we have had an actual serious problem on the roster it has been addressed. When our starting QB went down in 2019 and our back-up could not win consistently, we traded a top draft pick for the soon-to-be 2 time MOP. When our kicking was really bad in 2021 we brought in Castillo and he won us the Cup. When it seemed to be ironed out, we tried to salvage the young Canadian, and he was pretty good, but missed the one big kick at exactly the wrong time. So we replaced him this year. We had the best Canadian running back in history, but we opted to sign the younger guys and did not show excessive loyalty to him. And now he is a back-up in Toronto and his replacement here is leading the league. So changes are being made, just not for the sake of change like some wish would happen. I am content with the “KISS” model. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it manifests into an actual problem, our track record with this management group is that it will be addressed. But the weekly negativity has been over the top since the get-go IMO, so any push back on the hyperbole is being wrongly labelled as extreme, and knob polishing, and blind to any flaws, and “he is perfect brainwashing” which is not happening actually, and the accusation that we are pretending he is godlike is a BS argument. You want to talk loose hips and other intrinsic factors, go ahead, but I like metrics like wins and losses and knockdowns and tackles and those other measurables. Would be happy to engage in a measured discussion if the critics would stop hurling insults like “you are blind if you can’t see it”, and making false accusations about “but criticism is not allowed” and all the other over the top stuff. But the sky is not falling here, and at times it sure seems to me that it is presented that way by some of the “roster management“ crew. 

The point is, you can't dictate what others say.

If we want to talk about the Bombers, and we're allowed to criticize (even though we're all incredibly happy with the Bombers), we can discuss anything we want. There can't be a caveat of, you can discuss things but only if you also add a disclaimer that says, "MOS is always right and I am always wrong". 

[Booch]

8 hours ago, Jesse said:

I don’t think it can bite us in a particular game, not in a way you could really notice we’re not going to notice guys running fractions of a second slower late in the game). I more worry about the cumulative affect over the course of a season. 

tbh...That Ottawa loss can be totally attributed to a defensive front that was totally gassed and could't tackle in those last minutes, let alone track a guy and run them down....go back and watch...they had zero left.....and thats cause we dressed minimal guys for the front 7 who were/are impactful...but we did have a well rested full back and st linebackers tho

And a HC basically manages his asst. coaches and Co-Ordinators...unless he is one of them himself....so when an O.C or a D.C is running some odd schemes...that obviously aren't working, or go away from something that was....onus is on him to rattle the cages and get them changing the script....also player rotation and guys coming in and out in flow of a drive/game is the co-ordinator, not the coach, so if again they are running guys out there who aren't getting it done then again...it's on him to give the boys upstairs' a call and ask wtf ....or pull rank and tell the coordinator player X is now going in for player Y....that being said tho, he decides the game day roster so if he isn't providing the Coordinators with the talent...and depth then it's moot anyway

[Jesse]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

tbh...That Ottawa loss can be totally attributed to a defensive front that was totally gassed and could't tackle in those last minutes, let alone track a guy and run them down....go back and watch...they had zero left.....and thats cause we dressed minimal guys for the front 7 who were/are impactful...but we did have a well rested full back and st linebackers tho

And a HC basically manages his asst. coaches and Co-Ordinators...unless he is one of them himself....so when an O.C or a D.C is running some odd schemes...that obviously aren't working, or go away from something that was....onus is on him to rattle the cages and get them changing the script....also player rotation and guys coming in and out in flow of a drive/game is the co-ordinator, not the coach, so if again they are running guys out there who aren't getting it done then again...it's on him to give the boys upstairs' a call and ask wtf ....or pull rank and tell the coordinator player X is now going in for player Y....that being said tho, he decides the game day roster so if he isn't providing the Coordinators with the talent...and depth then it's moot anyway

You can make that argument, but that game came down to Brady's fumble and Zach's pick-6 in the final couple minutes - and then yeah, it put our D in a bad spot that they weren't able to cover.

At the end of the day, our coach is making investments in ST at the detriment of defence. And I'd be fine with it if our ST was noticeable better than other teams and it gave us an edge, but that hasn't been true at all. 

Now, to take a "middle-ground", our D has been among the best in the league - if not the best - so you can believe we don't "need" additions. But it sure does help your players out late in games/seasons. 

[bluto]

14 hours ago, greenrider55 said:

Cody is what… 2-9 Vs Winnipeg including playoffs? Yeesh. Not that anyone has a great record Vs Big Blue since 2019.

AFAIK only one team has even a .500 record against them since then.

[Booch]

33 minutes ago, Jesse said:

You can make that argument, but that game came down to Brady's fumble and Zach's pick-6 in the final couple minutes - and then yeah, it put our D in a bad spot that they weren't able to cover.

At the end of the day, our coach is making investments in ST at the detriment of defence. And I'd be fine with it if our ST was noticeable better than other teams and it gave us an edge, but that hasn't been true at all. 

Now, to take a "middle-ground", our D has been among the best in the league - if not the best - so you can believe we don't "need" additions. But it sure does help your players out late in games/seasons. 

thats didnt help for sure...Schoen's drop didnt help either...if and and buts tho are just part of the overall game...we were right gassed....and due to not having the horses up front to deal with the running...it was obvious, and in the end....the factors that led to a loss.....

[MOBomberFan]

Overblown exaggerated and all too often repeated tripe.

Some fans need to protect their feelings by forecasting doom and gloom while still getting to celebrate the wins, just so that if the losing does start to happen they can say SEE I WAS RIGHT I TOLD YOU. It's insurance for their emotions... they hate to lose, but love to be "right"... eventually.

Its a coping mechanism, some people need ways to feel in control when they aren't, I completely understand. There is plenty of room on the bandwagon even for those that have to cry and whine the whole way to the promised land.

[Bigblue204]

2 hours ago, bluto said:

AFAIK only one team has even a .500 record against them since then.

And they probably cheated to do it!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

I have no proof, but it helps me feel better

[bluto]

55 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

And they probably cheated to do it!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

I have no proof, but it helps me feel better

Whatever gets you thru the night, Bro 😄

But as a matter of looking at this from another perspective, Consider that being .500 against us is pretty good. Dinwiddie is 27-8.

[Noeller]

5 minutes ago, bluto said:

Whatever gets you thru the night, Bro 😄

But as a matter of looking at this from another perspective, Consider that being .500 against us is pretty good. Dinwiddie is 27-8.

Listen, I'm not disagreeing with you.... I'm just saying you play in the east and Dinwiddie's record needs an asterisk...

[bluto]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

Listen, I'm not disagreeing with you.... I'm just saying you play in the east and Dinwiddie's record needs an asterisk...

Have you looked at the teams in Alberta and Saskatchewan lately? (granted, we still can't win in Calgary but that's been a long term thing with us)

[Booch]

11 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Listen, I'm not disagreeing with you.... I'm just saying you play in the east and Dinwiddie's record needs an asterisk...

2 of em....minimum

 

9 minutes ago, bluto said:

Have you looked at the teams in Alberta and Saskatchewan lately? (granted, we still can't win in Calgary but that's been a long term thing with us)

lately...as in pretty much this yr.....Mind u edmonton has sucked a lil longer...Out in the east the suckage with 3 teams at .500 or well below has gone on...for decades

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

20 minutes ago, bluto said:

Have you looked at the teams in Alberta and Saskatchewan lately? (granted, we still can't win in Calgary but that's been a long term thing with us)

You play Hamilton how many times?

I want to play Hamilton as many or more times. 

Need to pad your stats? Come play Hamilton.!

Edited August 24, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[HardCoreBlue]

1 minute ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

You play Hamilton how many times?

I want to play Hamilton as many or more. 

I do know this, and that is, regardless of facts and evidence and emotions and allegiances, Argos do indeed suck.

[Bubba Zanetti]

2 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I do know this, and that is, regardless of facts and evidence and emotions and allegiances, Argos do indeed suck.

[HardCoreBlue]

5 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

The truth hurts for us all at times, I'm sorry but I can't control that. 🙂

[Mike]

13 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I can agree with the “take a mid-point” approach. But I have yet to see the naysayers offer that up. We have “the biggest fans around” hoping we lose to prove a point, wanting OSH fired, saying it will cost us every week when it hasn’t in 6 seasons, saying OSH is lucky, pathetic, stubborn, smug, head up his ass. Haven’t heard really any “measured criticism” from the loudest critics, and it’s the same wail every game, started before the season even began, and there is no evidence to show it has cost us a win.

Could we lose? Sure. Is it “putrid roster management” or because of another possibility, like maybe our QB playing the Grey Cup with a busted foot, or our OC calling a bizarre game plan, or our kicker missing a convert. Or getting lazy and giving up turnovers to squander a 16 point lead with 3 minutes left. Fact is, when we have had an actual serious problem on the roster it has been addressed. When our starting QB went down in 2019 and our back-up could not win consistently, we traded a top draft pick for the soon-to-be 2 time MOP. When our kicking was really bad in 2021 we brought in Castillo and he won us the Cup. When it seemed to be ironed out, we tried to salvage the young Canadian, and he was pretty good, but missed the one big kick at exactly the wrong time. So we replaced him this year. We had the best Canadian running back in history, but we opted to sign the younger guys and did not show excessive loyalty to him. And now he is a back-up in Toronto and his replacement here is leading the league. So changes are being made, just not for the sake of change like some wish would happen. I am content with the “KISS” model. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it manifests into an actual problem, our track record with this management group is that it will be addressed. But the weekly negativity has been over the top since the get-go IMO, so any push back on the hyperbole is being wrongly labelled as extreme, and knob polishing, and blind to any flaws, and “he is perfect brainwashing” which is not happening actually, and the accusation that we are pretending he is godlike is a BS argument. You want to talk loose hips and other intrinsic factors, go ahead, but I like metrics like wins and losses and knockdowns and tackles and those other measurables. Would be happy to engage in a measured discussion if the critics would stop hurling insults like “you are blind if you can’t see it”, and making false accusations about “but criticism is not allowed” and all the other over the top stuff. But the sky is not falling here, and at times it sure seems to me that it is presented that way by some of the “roster management“ crew. 

You say this, but other than a few emotional posts here and there, I see mostly the other side (the one telling everyone to stop complaining about the way our roster is managed) as the only side who doesn't really offer a "mid-point approach". There's nothing wrong with being critical if it's warranted and trust me, the criticism is warranted. I don't need to talk about the results, those speak for themselves and obviously we are all thrilled to be 8-2. What concerns me is the process. Even if we set aside the debate as to whether roster management can cost us a single game or not (I do think it can and already has this year, but whatever), I don't know how anyone can be pleased with the way we manage our game day roster. We dress far too many special teams players for a team that doesn't exactly stand out from the rest of the league on special teams, we have zero depth on the defensive side of the ball, we blatantly and stubbornly ignore rules that could be used to our advantage and we rely on far too many washed up and/or non-contributing players.

Have the Bombers done a good job of addressing issues? I mean ... I guess so? In my opinion, it's not so cut and dry. They've addressed some blatant ones like our kicking situation and they've done a good job of building depth at certain areas like DB and OL, but they really haven't done a lot of the proactive move making they used to do in order to prepare for the unexpected situations that may come up. We have exactly zero Americans preparing to fill roles as linebackers in case of an injury ... one healthy American edge rusher if Willie or Jeffcoat go down this week ... a sort of pseudo-running back to replace Brady if he gets hurt ... our practice roster makeup genuinely makes little to no sense (why is there a 36 year old punter on it? Could we not just airlift him in if Sheahan goes down? What would genuinely have to happen for Tomoya Machino to ever get on the gameday roster? He's like our 5th string backup at any OL position) and we haven't seemed to use it as a way to develop Americans in a few years now.

Despite what people seem to think, we've been a fairly healthy team for a few years now. Our depth hasn't really been tested all that much and if it does have to be, I'm not sure it's a test they'd pass. All in all, very happy with the results our team puts out. Don't love the process, not really sure why i should. We're mostly getting by on pure talent at this point (absolute testament to Walters, etc) but our gameday execution in all facets is leaving a TON to be desired. 

[Booch]

20 minutes ago, Mike said:

You say this, but other than a few emotional posts here and there, I see mostly the other side (the one telling everyone to stop complaining about the way our roster is managed) as the only side who doesn't really offer a "mid-point approach". There's nothing wrong with being critical if it's warranted and trust me, the criticism is warranted. I don't need to talk about the results, those speak for themselves and obviously we are all thrilled to be 8-2. What concerns me is the process. Even if we set aside the debate as to whether roster management can cost us a single game or not (I do think it can and already has this year, but whatever), I don't know how anyone can be pleased with the way we manage our game day roster. We dress far too many special teams players for a team that doesn't exactly stand out from the rest of the league on special teams, we have zero depth on the defensive side of the ball, we blatantly and stubbornly ignore rules that could be used to our advantage and we rely on far too many washed up and/or non-contributing players.

Have the Bombers done a good job of addressing issues? I mean ... I guess so? In my opinion, it's not so cut and dry. They've addressed some blatant ones like our kicking situation and they've done a good job of building depth at certain areas like DB and OL, but they really haven't done a lot of the proactive move making they used to do in order to prepare for the unexpected situations that may come up. We have exactly zero Americans preparing to fill roles as linebackers in case of an injury ... one healthy American edge rusher if Willie or Jeffcoat go down this week ... a sort of pseudo-running back to replace Brady if he gets hurt ... our practice roster makeup genuinely makes little to no sense (why is there a 36 year old punter on it? Could we not just airlift him in if Sheahan goes down? What would genuinely have to happen for Tomoya Machino to ever get on the gameday roster? He's like our 5th string backup at any OL position) and we haven't seemed to use it as a way to develop Americans in a few years now.

Despite what people seem to think, we've been a fairly healthy team for a few years now. Our depth hasn't really been tested all that much and if it does have to be, I'm not sure it's a test they'd pass. All in all, very happy with the results our team puts out. Don't love the process, not really sure why i should. We're mostly getting by on pure talent at this point (absolute testament to Walters, etc) but our gameday execution in all facets is leaving a TON to be desired. 

Preaching to the choir

Results can often mask deficiencies...and we masking some...and as Mike said we have won soley based on a core of studs that have made it happen.

Since 2019 our Dline depth, and talent has deteriorated to basically being an injury or 2 away from complete disaster and panic....There is nobody of any significance right now on our PR worth being there and of possible use/upside other than Swarmay....GarbUtt...Richmond,  Karamoko, and now Parker and our 2 canadians Kelly and Murphy....I'd add Agudosi but when we do roster him, we seem to have no idea how to actually use him, so having him is a nice luxury but he's wasted....and They will likely roster Mcrae like they have if a receiver goes down, as they seem to think he's ultra special

go back and look at our roster, and the numbers, and how/when we dominated....and it will correlate to 8 dlineman and in many instance an extra import DB.....In 2022...we dealt away Wilcotts....dumped MACK ...and lost Hansen...all of whom were producing well to that point in the rotation, and Osh made a statement to media addressing the drop in dline numbers as that they wanted to try something out...well it didn't work and we had to scramble to add a Rider discard off the scrap heap to actually have a 3rd end to rotate....and have had things deteriorate even more since...Willie and Jeffcoat both playing as good as ever...but aint getting younger  Haba looked great...but got hurt, and we havn't even replaced him....Thomas is done...thanks for the service....Bennett...has shown a lil more lately...so his absolutely nothing has got bumped up to nothing to write home about...Lawson would and is a force...but they let Thomas vukture his reps, and the 2 Canadian kids we drafted for a lack of better word right suck.....So when u look at just that aspect...we have the Jeffs..Walker.....and Lawson as quility rotation guy...thats it...tho we have 2 guys on the PR who would make an impact on the game more than a DA fullback whom if wasn't rostered....you would not even know...that is bad....and don't even get started on not utilizing the rule this yr...that every fricken team BUT us....won't....cmon media...ask that question and wait for the lame response....

Edited August 24, 2023 by Booch