Banjo Bowl early thread

[bluto]

Weekly bets in. Choosing Bombers to cover was my easiest money to lay out this week. Revenge + sore ass factor.

[CrazyCanuck89]

27 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Killing the jeffs, no replacement for grant for 6 weeks 7 cuz God forbid we play the new guy, haba to pr, Jackson still rostered, 6 dl and 3 pretty much play all game,

(Bennett is awful, Thomas is old but gets reps ) dressing 20 lbs, the special teams scheme   

 

There's a few questionable decisions 

Kramdi starting over an American. 

There's a few. 

It's not just 1 or 2. 

If you watch Kramdi he is actually good, that is why he is starting over an American.  Hallett or Kramdi could play safety and move Alexander to SLB, maybe the coaches see Kramdi as a SLB.  The Canadian SLB is making a come back.

[3rdand1.5]

I am really surprised with Haba on the PR, IMO Haba outplayed Bennet in all aspects. If we are hell bent of all the LB's and having Jackson on the roster at least pull Bennet and insert Haba, we don't need Bennet for ratio reasons and again I feel Haba was the much better player.....

 

Confused.....

[Arnold_Palmer]

4 minutes ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

I am really surprised with Haba on the PR, IMO Haba outplayed Bennet in all aspects. If we are hell bent of all the LB's and having Jackson on the roster at least pull Bennet and insert Haba, we don't need Bennet for ratio reasons and again I feel Haba was the much better player.....

 

Confused.....

I’ve been defending O’Shea as much as possible but this move is just un excusable.  Very frustrated by this. 

[bigg jay]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

This roster management has been atrocious all year. Do I want O’Shea fired? No. Do I want someone to tell him that he needs to wake up and start doing a better job of it? Yes please. And don’t start up with this “he knows more about football than we could ever know” stuff, there’s a reason every single head coach gets fired at some point and it’s because they’re people just like us - with weak points, biases and blind spots that affect them just as they affect other human beings. 

<TBurgess has entered the chat>

Edited September 8, 2023 by bigg jay

[GCn20]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You know what was a bigger issue than the D getting tired later in the game? 0 passing yards and 0 completed passes in the first quarter. I don't care what the roster looks like that is unacceptable. 

Yes, our roster management was not an issue last week. Our first half egg we laid was. When Edmonton took it to us in the first half, that wasn't on roster management either. The only time I think our roster management truly cost us was late in the game against Ottawa and only because the Bombers collectively decided the game was over and started playing completely half arsed and only woke up when the game was on the line and they were dogged out.

14 minutes ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

I am really surprised with Haba on the PR, IMO Haba outplayed Bennet in all aspects. If we are hell bent of all the LB's and having Jackson on the roster at least pull Bennet and insert Haba, we don't need Bennet for ratio reasons and again I feel Haba was the much better player.....

 

Confused.....

We do not need Bennet for ratio reasons but we do have to dress a minimum number of NATs every week. Not saying that's a good reason, but Bennet over Haba is still a benefit roster wise.

3 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Watch him get poached by another team now. 9-3 roster management. 9 bad moves 3 good ones.  

Wow...we are lucky to have won a game this year. 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

No coach I’d rather have than O’Shea, but I’m with Booch … his roster management is horrendous. I’m not concerned with how good we’re doing, I’m concerned with how we could be doing so much better.

It’s almost comical in a way because everything that Booch and I have been saying all year is more or less exactly what has happened, but people still want to make excuses for it.

We said key injuries with improper use of the practice roster will lead to us not being able to replace guys adequately - look at Janarion Grant. We said not having a proper rotation on the DL will gas Willie/Jeffcoat - they haven’t had a sack in forever and are visibly gassed. We said rostering a bunch of special teams bodies in lieu of some actual defensive depth may cost us a game down the road - look at how gassed our D was in Ottawa, even if you want to put the blame for the L in other areas.

This roster management has been atrocious all year. Do I want O’Shea fired? No. Do I want someone to tell him that he needs to wake up and start doing a better job of it? Yes please. And don’t start up with this “he knows more about football than we could ever know” stuff, there’s a reason every single head coach gets fired at some point and it’s because they’re people just like us - with weak points, biases and blind spots that affect them just as they affect other human beings. 

Not one person is making excuses for the roster management. Everyone is in full agreement it could be better. MOS will have a statue next to Grant's by the time he is done, and yes he does know more than any of us ever will. That doesn't mean he doesn't have weak spots. I will take his weak spots in trade for his strengths any day of the week. The "excuses" you are referring to are not excuses. While some of you are grousing about roster management but knowing we are still a very well coached club and legit GC contender...others have taken this issue and a couple of losses and are signalling that this is the armageddon of the Bomber ball club and that is flat out ridiculous. That is what many of us are defending against because it is so far over the top it is not even funny.

We are easily the favorite in the West to be in the Grey Cup, and it's a toss up between us and Toronto as to who is the best in the CFL right now. Could we be better if our coach rostered better, possibly....but it wouldn't be by much. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Jefferson has gone 5 games without a sack and Jeffcoat is at 4 games without but yeah we don't need a third rotational DE. A jack of all trades, no impact FB is better use.

U forgot master of none

 

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

There is a difference between horrendous and sub-optimal. 

not when it continues to happen....with no explanation behind the thought process...

 

22 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You know what was a bigger issue than the D getting tired later in the game? 0 passing yards and 0 completed passes in the first quarter. I don't care what the roster looks like that is unacceptable. 

Offence still put up enough points to win tho....in game stats aren't the be all end all...we also beat edm in a gane completing 12 passes.

The roster management is horrible...worst in league...saving grace we have some of the best and elite starters that wash over it....that doesn't mean it's good tho

I'm with @Mike Osh is the coach I want, but all coaches need to work on things...adapt and evolve.....no coach lasts forever, as eventually their flaws and inadequacies catch up to them if they don't adapt...I have seen it first hand with Murphy...Ritchie, among others.....and above and beyond the questionable roster inadequacies, the fact alone Osh refuses to use the Nationalized rule...which would only benefit "his team" is utter bullcrap, soley because he don't like or believe in it, and it's a bee in his bonnet for a lack of a better term...that there is inexcusable really, and not sure they dynamics of how our upper level management work, but my experience the G.M over seas the whole ball of wax, and the HC does the team...and there has to had been some communication about this stuff..,and I sure like mentioned him...and the head scouts have to be wondering why guys brought in are either just discard, or kept and not given the chance...maybe there is more to the Walters silence and non-extension due to lack of same visions/ who knows but every great partnership fizzles out at some point

And as much as we like to think/believe Osh is the ultimate players coach....he does play favorites, and will do things his way regardless....and I am sure players see it....how can they not...

27 minutes ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

If you watch Kramdi he is actually good, that is why he is starting over an American.  Hallett or Kramdi could play safety and move Alexander to SLB, maybe the coaches see Kramdi as a SLB.  The Canadian SLB is making a come back.

not sure what you are watching...whiffed tackles....missed assignmnts...at times not sure where to go....he is not a quality starter whatsoever....and if he is the best we have...then we really have failed with player recruitment and talent evaluation...he would not start anywhere in the league.

Bennet as well....cant play contain, gets faked out repeatedly, gets no pressure at all....and isn't physically dominating in any respect....he's played 12 games now and probably has made 2 noticeably plays in total....thats bad

[17to85]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

Offence still put up enough points to win tho....in game stats aren't the be all end all...we also beat edm in a gane completing 12 passes.

No stats don't mean everything... but if your offense waits until the 2nd half to start playing ball you make life harder on your D from the get go. The offense it littered with stars and they are paid accordingly. That has been the issue most of the year nothing else. An underachieving offense. 

Yes we could make the Ds life a bit easier with haba and Hansen in but that's really not the huge issue some people make it out to be. Kramdi for all the **** he takes from some is not playing poorly. Parker didn't improve the punt return game one bit. A lot of this is being blown massively out of proportion because of some people having differing opinions on some players. 

[captaincanuck12]

Found the twitter link for the starting lineup:

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by captaincanuck12

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

U forgot master of none

 

not when it continues to happen....with no explanation behind the thought process...

 

Offence still put up enough points to win tho....in game stats aren't the be all end all...we also beat edm in a gane completing 12 passes.

The roster management is horrible...worst in league...saving grace we have some of the best and elite starters that wash over it....that doesn't mean it's good tho

I'm with @Mike Osh is the coach I want, but all coaches need to work on things...adapt and evolve.....no coach lasts forever, as eventually their flaws and inadequacies catch up to them if they don't adapt...I have seen it first hand with Murphy...Ritchie, among others.....and above and beyond the questionable roster inadequacies, the fact alone Osh refuses to use the Nationalized rule...which would only benefit "his team" is utter bullcrap, soley because he don't like or believe in it, and it's a bee in his bonnet for a lack of a better term...that there is inexcusable really, and not sure they dynamics of how our upper level management work, but my experience the G.M over seas the whole ball of wax, and the HC does the team...and there has to had been some communication about this stuff..,and I sure like mentioned him...and the head scouts have to be wondering why guys brought in are either just discard, or kept and not given the chance...maybe there is more to the Walters silence and non-extension due to lack of same visions/ who knows but every great partnership fizzles out at some point

And as much as we like to think/believe Osh is the ultimate players coach....he does play favorites, and will do things his way regardless....and I am sure players see it....how can they not...

Players, to a man, love him as a coach. Stay with him and flock to him when given the chance. Says all I need to know about what the players think of him. Osh is by FAR the best coach in the league. The players know it, and the results speak for themselves. Does he have a couple quirks....yep....sure does....minor ones though. If our best criticism of him and his staff is who fills out the bottom couple spots of his game day roster than I think we are just fine in the coaching department. I mean really think about that. Who the 45th and 46th men are on our game day roster. That's the beef? Not insignificant, but not earth shattering either.

[Booch]

so depth chart is out....wonder why only 3 DA's are noted

but....No Hansen...Haba...actual real returner....no nationalized american.....But I am certain guys like Jackson...Murphy...Mauro and the likes will be that extra edge and spark we need for dominance

Just now, GCn20 said:

Players, to a man, love him as a coach. Stay with him and flock to him when given the chance. Says all I need to know about what the players think of him. Osh is by FAR the best coach in the league. The players know it, and the results speak for themselves. Does he have a couple quirks....yep....sure does....minor ones though. If our best criticism of him and his staff is who fills out the bottom couple spots of his game day roster than I think we are just fine in the coaching department. I mean really think about that. Who the 45th and 46th men are on our game day roster. That's the beef? Not insignificant, but not earth shattering either.

quality players for rotation...legit returners....thats not bottom spots on the roster...those are just as important as a good starter

[rebusrankin]

For all this, we're the best team in the league, honestly Toronto is better right now.

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No stats don't mean everything... but if your offense waits until the 2nd half to start playing ball you make life harder on your D from the get go. The offense it littered with stars and they are paid accordingly. That has been the issue most of the year nothing else. An underachieving offense. 

Yes we could make the Ds life a bit easier with haba and Hansen in but that's really not the huge issue some people make it out to be. Kramdi for all the **** he takes from some is not playing poorly. Parker didn't improve the punt return game one bit. A lot of this is being blown massively out of proportion because of some people having differing opinions on some players. 

I agree. While his roster usage has not been optimal, the angst about it on this board, by some, is over the top.

[Super Duper Negatron]

If we lose tomorrow, we are only one L better than the Riders, with them having the series. That is enough for me to want every edge we can get.

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

so depth chart is out....wonder why only 3 DA's are noted

but....No Hansen...Haba...actual real returner....no nationalized american.....But I am certain guys like Jackson...Murphy...Mauro and the likes will be that extra edge and spark we need for dominance

quality players for rotation...legit returners....thats not bottom spots on the roster...those are just as important as a good starter

A returner, I agree, can be important and that is my big beef so far this year. However, you will have to get me up pretty early in the morning to ever convince me that rotational players are just as important as good starters. Haba is certainly a head scratcher, as he is a good player, but honestly McRae, Burtenshaw, etc just put em in the blender and dress whoever. It's not going to really impact much.

4 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

For all this, we're the best team in the league, honestly Toronto is better right now.

That's debatable.

3 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

If we lose tomorrow, we are only one L better than the Riders, with them having the series. That is enough for me to want every edge we can get.

lol...lose tomorrow...as if

Edited September 8, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

A returner, I agree, can be important and that is my big beef so far this year. However, you will have to get me up pretty early in the morning to ever convince me that rotational players are just as important as good starters.

u don't want comparable players to yur starters spelling them off?....you are fine with guys that are well below starter quality taking reps?.....not sure what to say....our success in the 2 cup winning yrs...which is 2 yrs in the rear view was because our rotational guys could been starters on most of the other teams...now some I bet would't crack another teams roster, and if they did would be doing the Tavarious Harrison imitation on the sideline all game....if anything your rottional and depth guys are extremely key to a teams success

[JCon]

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No stats don't mean everything... but if your offense waits until the 2nd half to start playing ball you make life harder on your D from the get go. The offense it littered with stars and they are paid accordingly. That has been the issue most of the year nothing else. An underachieving offense. 

Yes we could make the Ds life a bit easier with haba and Hansen in but that's really not the huge issue some people make it out to be. Kramdi for all the **** he takes from some is not playing poorly. Parker didn't improve the punt return game one bit. A lot of this is being blown massively out of proportion because of some people having differing opinions on some players. 

But we had Jackson blocking. How could the offense be bad? 

[Nolby]

6 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

If we lose tomorrow, we are only one L better than the Riders, with them having the series. That is enough for me to want every edge we can get.

I don't see any way we lose tomorrow, at all. Dolegala had a good game, but only in front of the energy of his fans. He's coming into our house, we're winning by 3 tds, **** Sask.

[17to85]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

But we had Jackson blocking. How could the offense be bad? 

Don't get me wrong I don't see what Jackson brings to the roster at all, but he doesn't make or break a team. The guys paid to be the stars need to be the stars.

[Booch]

Just now, JCon said:

But we had Jackson blocking. How could the offense be bad? 

here's a fun game....as a fan/viewer...watch his reps on offence, and tell me if anybody else ...who is not a DA could replicate it....many forget. we played games this yr with no FB even listed on the depth chart, and games where Gray played thatspot and Dobson went on the line at guard....which would prob be more successful anyway using a guy who's job it is to move bodies as a lead blocker

2 minutes ago, Nolby said:

I don't see any way we lose tomorrow, at all. Dolegala had a good game, but only in front of the energy of his fans. He's coming into our house, we're winning by 3 tds, **** Sask.

cant see it eithers....and Dolegala isn't a good QB ....we just played a bad game over all in 2 key phases...Their offence in regulations time got 1 TD...

[TBURGESS]

Tburg enters the chat...

Does MOS know more than any of us? Yup. Does that mean he is perfect or above question? Nope.

Do most folks think that MOS is making roster mistakes? Yup. Does that mean they want him fired? Nope. 

Tburg leaves the chat

[JohnnyAbonny]

Having Clements and not taking off Cole is good. 

Unless he signalled for a fair catch in practice, I don’t see why the new returner  isn’t on there yet. 

Haba to the PR is baffling, and quite frankly dumb. 

[HardCoreBlue]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

here's a fun game....as a fan/viewer...watch his reps on offence, and tell me if anybody else ...who is not a DA could replicate it....many forget. we played games this yr with no FB even listed on the depth chart, and games where Gray played thatspot and Dobson went on the line at guard....which would prob be more successful anyway using a guy who's job it is to move bodies as a lead blocker

cant see it eithers....and Dolegala isn't a good QB ....we just played a bad game over all in 2 key phases...Their offence in regulations time got 1 TD...

Early 2 and outs/a pick would be nice to shatter any built up confidence he may have gained from beating us last week where all he is concentrating on is peaking over his shoulder to see if Fine is warming up. 

[17to85]

Just now, TBURGESS said:

Tburg enters the chat...

Does MOS know more than any of us? Yup. Does that mean he is perfect or above question? Nope.

Do most folks think that MOS is making roster mistakes? Yup. Does that mean they want him fired? Nope. 

Tburg leaves the chat

Thanks for the contribution. You have effectively ignored the entire nuance that is at the heart of this discussion.