Free Agent Exodus

[iso_55]

I dunno, watching a losing team on the field, it's not like we can't find guys to replace them. The only player I would like back is Alex Hall. Henoc Muamba is not the best middle linebacker in the league. Chris Matthews is hurt. Receivers & linebackers can be easily replaced. On a losing team like the Bombers changing the MLB position to an American won't bust the defense like it would be if it was a championship contending team with other great players on the team. There isn't a domino effect as there would be on the Riders, Stamps, Lions or Argos. My feeling is, they want to go... especially Muamba? Buh bye.

[Mr Dee]

I'm pretty sure Henoc would be considered among the better NIs in the league and he's young and getting better.

He's one of our sure fire starters.

Can we easily dismiss him and say buh bye. I don't think so.

We have to fight to keep him.

[TrueBlue]

I dunno, watching a losing team on the field, it's not like we can't find guys to replace them. The only player I would like back is Alex Hall. Henoc Muamba is not the best middle linebacker in the league. Chris Matthews is hurt. Receivers & linebackers can be easily replaced. On a losing team like the Bombers changing the MLB position to an American won't bust the defense like it would be if it was a championship contending team with other great players on the team. There isn't a domino effect as there would be on the Riders, Stamps, Lions or Argos. My feeling is, they want to go... especially Muamba? Buh bye.

 

If your attempt is to fill MLB with a rookie american, I'd argue it would be tougher to find one of the variety that would be smart enough to adapt to the game as quickly as expected.  Receivers on the other hand, can adjust and learn a lot quicker.

[17to85]

I dunno, watching a losing team on the field, it's not like we can't find guys to replace them. The only player I would like back is Alex Hall. Henoc Muamba is not the best middle linebacker in the league. Chris Matthews is hurt. Receivers & linebackers can be easily replaced. On a losing team like the Bombers changing the MLB position to an American won't bust the defense like it would be if it was a championship contending team with other great players on the team. There isn't a domino effect as there would be on the Riders, Stamps, Lions or Argos. My feeling is, they want to go... especially Muamba? Buh bye.

Muamba is valuable because he's the best NI on the team not because he's the best LB in the league. You lose one of your best NIs you're hurting, especially when you already don't have the real high end NIs to start with. 

[iso_55]

I'm pretty sure Henoc would be considered among the better NIs in the league and he's young and getting better.

He's one of our sure fire starters.

Can we easily dismiss him and say buh bye. I don't think so.

We have to fight to keep him.

Fight to keep him, yes. But again, if he doesn't want to be here well we need to move on. We have to focus on the future. Would I like him to be in our future, yes. If Muamba's agent holds the Bombers up for ranson or as leverage to get more money off another team then let him go. We can easily replace a Canadian MLB with an American without missing a beat. On the OL, losing a Canadian like Labatte hurts a lot more than if we lost Muamba as the OL is considered a Canadian position & MLB an American one. You build your Canadian talent from the OL out...

[iso_55]

I dunno, watching a losing team on the field, it's not like we can't find guys to replace them. The only player I would like back is Alex Hall. Henoc Muamba is not the best middle linebacker in the league. Chris Matthews is hurt. Receivers & linebackers can be easily replaced. On a losing team like the Bombers changing the MLB position to an American won't bust the defense like it would be if it was a championship contending team with other great players on the team. There isn't a domino effect as there would be on the Riders, Stamps, Lions or Argos. My feeling is, they want to go... especially Muamba? Buh bye.

Muamba is valuable because he's the best NI on the team not because he's the best LB in the league. You lose one of your best NIs you're hurting, especially when you already don't have the real high end NIs to start with.

Hey don't shoot the messenger. I agree with you but if he wants to go & doesn't want to stay I won't lose any sleep over it because as I said, he can be replaced with an American linebacker.

[Mr Dee]

But you're focused too much on the LB aspect of it.

We'd be losing a quality NI starter.

That's where the pain would be.

[TrueBlue]

 

I'm pretty sure Henoc would be considered among the better NIs in the league and he's young and getting better.

He's one of our sure fire starters.

Can we easily dismiss him and say buh bye. I don't think so.

We have to fight to keep him.

Fight to keep him, yes. But again, if he doesn't want to be here well we need to move on. We have to focus on the future. Would I like him to be in our future, yes. If Muamba's agent holds the Bombers up for ranson or as leverage to get more money off another team then let him go. We can easily replace a Canadian MLB with an American without missing a beat. On the OL, losing a Canadian like Labatte hurts a lot more than if we lost Muamba as the OL is considered a Canadian position & MLB an American one. You build your Canadian talent from the OL out...

 

 

See, this is a theory that will soon get debunked.  There is some great Canadian talent out there in every position.  It doesn't matter if it's o-line, receiver, linebacker.  You build your Canadian talent by finding quality Canadians at any position.  

 

Saying the MLB position is an American position is like saying the RB is an Amercian position. It's an old-fashioned way of thinking in my mind. 

 

Now If you had said the word "primarily" I could have accepted that. 

[Floyd]

I like Muamba but since we went full-time NI MLB, our defence has actually been a fair bit worse...  not the only factor but you can't really ignore it.

[Jpan85]

Henoc to his credit is one of the best special teamers we have also.

[17to85]

 

I'm pretty sure Henoc would be considered among the better NIs in the league and he's young and getting better.

He's one of our sure fire starters.

Can we easily dismiss him and say buh bye. I don't think so.

We have to fight to keep him.

Fight to keep him, yes. But again, if he doesn't want to be here well we need to move on. We have to focus on the future. Would I like him to be in our future, yes. If Muamba's agent holds the Bombers up for ranson or as leverage to get more money off another team then let him go. We can easily replace a Canadian MLB with an American without missing a beat. On the OL, losing a Canadian like Labatte hurts a lot more than if we lost Muamba as the OL is considered a Canadian position & MLB an American one. You build your Canadian talent from the OL out...

 

This is outdated thinking. There are quality NIs at all positions. You can easily replace a Canadian at OL with an american just as much as you can at LB. You identify your best NIs and build your ratio around that it doesn't really matter what position they play. 

[HardCoreBlue]

 

 

Well as indicated by the Sun article today a number of players, as expected are not going to resign now and will test the market. This really comes as no surprise, and you can't really blame them given the chaotic atmosphere they have been subjected to.

Typical Sun headline...hardly an exodus!....not so sure it is about the chaotic atmosphere...more like MONEY!

 

 

The lack of winning and negative atmosphere plays as large a roll in attracting and retaining players as money does .. what incentive does a top tier free agent have to stay in (or come to) Winnipeg when there's little chance of making the playoffs (and making the extra coin associated with a post season birth)?  If two contracts are being considered, both offering similar money, what would entice someone to join an organization that's constantly under the microscope and in a state of continual change?

 

Loyalty, Commitment, We're in this together? Or is that a thing of the past.

[MOBomberFan]

 

 

 

Well as indicated by the Sun article today a number of players, as expected are not going to resign now and will test the market. This really comes as no surprise, and you can't really blame them given the chaotic atmosphere they have been subjected to.

Typical Sun headline...hardly an exodus!....not so sure it is about the chaotic atmosphere...more like MONEY!

 

 

The lack of winning and negative atmosphere plays as large a roll in attracting and retaining players as money does .. what incentive does a top tier free agent have to stay in (or come to) Winnipeg when there's little chance of making the playoffs (and making the extra coin associated with a post season birth)?  If two contracts are being considered, both offering similar money, what would entice someone to join an organization that's constantly under the microscope and in a state of continual change?

 

Loyalty, Commitment, We're in this together? Or is that a thing of the past.

 

It's certainly a nice sentiment, and how much an individual values such things will vary from player to player. One thing is for sure though: these guys aren't signing with any team out of the kindness of their hearts. They need to get paid, and making the playoffs is a big part of maximizing your earning potential. Fact is, as long as the Bombers are in a tailspin they'll have a harder time attracting (or retaining) quality players with options.

[iso_55]

 

I dunno, watching a losing team on the field, it's not like we can't find guys to replace them. The only player I would like back is Alex Hall. Henoc Muamba is not the best middle linebacker in the league. Chris Matthews is hurt. Receivers & linebackers can be easily replaced. On a losing team like the Bombers changing the MLB position to an American won't bust the defense like it would be if it was a championship contending team with other great players on the team. There isn't a domino effect as there would be on the Riders, Stamps, Lions or Argos. My feeling is, they want to go... especially Muamba? Buh bye.

 

If your attempt is to fill MLB with a rookie american, I'd argue it would be tougher to find one of the variety that would be smart enough to adapt to the game as quickly as expected.  Receivers on the other hand, can adjust and learn a lot quicker.

 

It's easier than you think. Always has been easier. MLBs read the flow & go to the POA. The good ones have the range to drop into pass coverage. If Muamba goes, we'll fill his position. Just that he is a ratio breaker. Frees up an American somewhere else but he is replaceable. Besides, losing an American starter somewhere else doesn't really break my heart as truthfully we only have a hand full of starters who could go elsewhere & start on any CFL  team..

[iso_55]

 

 

I'm pretty sure Henoc would be considered among the better NIs in the league and he's young and getting better.

He's one of our sure fire starters.

Can we easily dismiss him and say buh bye. I don't think so.

We have to fight to keep him.

Fight to keep him, yes. But again, if he doesn't want to be here well we need to move on. We have to focus on the future. Would I like him to be in our future, yes. If Muamba's agent holds the Bombers up for ranson or as leverage to get more money off another team then let him go. We can easily replace a Canadian MLB with an American without missing a beat. On the OL, losing a Canadian like Labatte hurts a lot more than if we lost Muamba as the OL is considered a Canadian position & MLB an American one. You build your Canadian talent from the OL out...

 

This is outdated thinking. There are quality NIs at all positions. You can easily replace a Canadian at OL with an american just as much as you can at LB. You identify your best NIs and build your ratio around that it doesn't really matter what position they play. 

 

Yes, but it's not outdated thinking. How can it be outdated? It's reality. We have a ratio & there's no getting around it. CFL teams generally go with 7 Canadian starters on O & D. What we do is start our 7 best & go from there. Where is it written in stone one of our 7 best Canadian starters has to be at MLB?

What Henoc Muamba brings to the table is the fact that since he can play MLB which is generally an American position so it frees up an American somewhere else. That is why he is so valuable. But not valuable enough to want the kind of $$$ he may be asking for. Now if the salary cap is raised significantly then if we can fit in his demands financially then yes try to sign him.

As far as replacing Canadians on the OL with Americans  it isn't easy. Again, it affects the ratio. For every extra American starting on the OL an American starter has to sit out. So, JJ for example may have to sit & Cauchy Muamba goes back in at safety. Maybe Terrence Edwards sits & is replaced with a Canadian receiver. Our secondary may lose an American starter. Having 3 Americans on the OL is a serious problem as it creates a domino effect with the entire roster. It's not good at all & Burke is stupid to do it. As an emergency for maybe one game, sure... But if he thinks that'll make us better in the long run then like I say the man is stupid. .

[17to85]

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure Henoc would be considered among the better NIs in the league and he's young and getting better.

He's one of our sure fire starters.

Can we easily dismiss him and say buh bye. I don't think so.

We have to fight to keep him.

Fight to keep him, yes. But again, if he doesn't want to be here well we need to move on. We have to focus on the future. Would I like him to be in our future, yes. If Muamba's agent holds the Bombers up for ranson or as leverage to get more money off another team then let him go. We can easily replace a Canadian MLB with an American without missing a beat. On the OL, losing a Canadian like Labatte hurts a lot more than if we lost Muamba as the OL is considered a Canadian position & MLB an American one. You build your Canadian talent from the OL out...

 

This is outdated thinking. There are quality NIs at all positions. You can easily replace a Canadian at OL with an american just as much as you can at LB. You identify your best NIs and build your ratio around that it doesn't really matter what position they play. 

 

Yes, but it's not outdated thinking. How can it be outdated? It's reality. We have a ratio & there's no getting around it. CFL teams generally go with 7 Canadian starters on O & D. What we do is start our 7 best & go from there. Where is it written in stone one of our 7 best Canadian starters has to be at MLB?

What Henoc Muamba brings to the table is the fact that since he can play MLB which is generally an American position so it frees up an American somewhere else. That is why he is so valuable. But not valuable enough to want the kind of $$$ he may be asking for. Now if the salary cap is raised significantly then if we can fit in his demands financially then yes try to sign him.

As far as replacing Canadians on the OL with Americans  it isn't easy. Again, it affects the ratio. For every extra American starting on the OL an American starter has to sit out. So, JJ for example may have to sit & Cauchy Muamba goes back in at safety. Maybe Terrence Edwards sits & is replaced with a Canadian receiver. Our secondary may lose an American starter. Having 3 Americans on the OL is a serious problem as it creates a domino effect with the entire roster. It's not good at all & Burke is stupid to do it. As an emergency for maybe one game, sure... But if he thinks that'll make us better in the long run then like I say the man is stupid. .

 

wow did you miss the point... the point is that it doesn't matter what a traditional NI spot is anymore! it matters that your NIs can play and a MLB that can play is as valuable as an OL that can play and both can be replaced by an american just as easily as the other if you're looking at losing one. Where is it written in stone that you need 3 or 4 or 5 NIs on the o-line? 

[Adrenaline_x]

The whole building for the future mantra is super annoying to me. We have been building for the future for the last 4 years by getting younger players with "potential" and we are getting progressively worse.

We need to build for being a good team now and next season. Once u fix the current problems and field a competitive team each week then we can start building for the future. With a weak base / foundation u can't build on it for the long term.

Mack was trying to bring in young talented guys and missed the boat by taking flyers on veterans or cfl experience players that could make an immediate improvement to our team and seemingly decide to wait for the green player to turn into all stars and lead the team to greatness.

Hopefully this is all changing now with Walters and whoever is hired to replace Mack and Burke. They have focus solely on making this team competitive immediately and address the weakest links like the oline and coaching and once progress is made start addressing longer term/future depth with younger players. Then and only then can they groom players to take over when starters start the down side of their careers.

Free agents are going to flow towards the teams willing to play them more and if we hire experienced cfl coaches and management then our gong show going on this year will be a secondary thought for free agents.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure Henoc would be considered among the better NIs in the league and he's young and getting better.

He's one of our sure fire starters.

Can we easily dismiss him and say buh bye. I don't think so.

We have to fight to keep him.

Fight to keep him, yes. But again, if he doesn't want to be here well we need to move on. We have to focus on the future. Would I like him to be in our future, yes. If Muamba's agent holds the Bombers up for ranson or as leverage to get more money off another team then let him go. We can easily replace a Canadian MLB with an American without missing a beat. On the OL, losing a Canadian like Labatte hurts a lot more than if we lost Muamba as the OL is considered a Canadian position & MLB an American one. You build your Canadian talent from the OL out...

 

This is outdated thinking. There are quality NIs at all positions. You can easily replace a Canadian at OL with an american just as much as you can at LB. You identify your best NIs and build your ratio around that it doesn't really matter what position they play. 

 

Yes, but it's not outdated thinking. How can it be outdated? It's reality. We have a ratio & there's no getting around it. CFL teams generally go with 7 Canadian starters on O & D. What we do is start our 7 best & go from there. Where is it written in stone one of our 7 best Canadian starters has to be at MLB?

What Henoc Muamba brings to the table is the fact that since he can play MLB which is generally an American position so it frees up an American somewhere else. That is why he is so valuable. But not valuable enough to want the kind of $$$ he may be asking for. Now if the salary cap is raised significantly then if we can fit in his demands financially then yes try to sign him.

As far as replacing Canadians on the OL with Americans  it isn't easy. Again, it affects the ratio. For every extra American starting on the OL an American starter has to sit out. So, JJ for example may have to sit & Cauchy Muamba goes back in at safety. Maybe Terrence Edwards sits & is replaced with a Canadian receiver. Our secondary may lose an American starter. Having 3 Americans on the OL is a serious problem as it creates a domino effect with the entire roster. It's not good at all & Burke is stupid to do it. As an emergency for maybe one game, sure... But if he thinks that'll make us better in the long run then like I say the man is stupid. .

 

wow did you miss the point... the point is that it doesn't matter what a traditional NI spot is anymore! it matters that your NIs can play and a MLB that can play is as valuable as an OL that can play and both can be replaced by an american just as easily as the other if you're looking at losing one. Where is it written in stone that you need 3 or 4 or 5 NIs on the o-line? 

 

It IS written in stone on most CFL teams. And has been now for 20 years. Why do you think that is? So more Americans can play skill positions like safety, corner, MLB & receiver. Back in the day, we had Canadians playing corner, OLB, wide receiver. That doesn't happen anymore. It's all about the ratio. If you put 3 Americans on the OL that was dedicated to 4 or 5 Canadia starters then at least one  American has to come off somewhere else which can hurt a team. Now, if you start the season with 3 Ameriucans on the OL & you have 2 extra Canadians playing elsewhere then that is fine. But if the ratio isn't configured that way & clearly we aren't then that creates the problem.  Most teams go with at least 4 Canadian starters & 1 American on the OL. But 3????

[17to85]

and that is what the outdated thinking is, this belief that you need to have the bulk of your NIs on the o-line. 

[iso_55]

17, how many Canadian offensive linemen come out of college??? There's a lot of them. My son plays qb in college. If I had another son I would be encouraging him to play along the OL if he had any kind of size. Best chance to play in the CFL is on the OL. And to get an NCAA scholarship. They play there because it's the best fit.

[17to85]

There are a lot of them because you can develop them since a lot of it is mental anyway if you got the size and they can have longer careers than a runningback or a defensive back or something. 

[iso_55]

17, don't disagree with you on Canadian talent. They are getting better. The problem is the ratio is determined in the pre season. The team is built around that ratio & when it is changed, the effects ripple thru the team when it does. The Bombers weren't built for 3 Americans on the OL. In the Bombers case, they played Boatman & January before they were injured & now 2 new Americans have replaced them & perhaps maybe a third. So, now an extra American starter will have to sit if Burke plays 3 Americans on the OL.

[pigseye]

On the bright side, the next GM can start with a blank slate and not be beholden to players with bloated contracts.

 

- get a franchise QB

- build your lines

- then impact players

 

and you're set, shouldn't take more than 2 years to be a contender again.

[17to85]

yeah but this is entirely a different thing we're talking about here. Your original point was that it was easier to lose Muamba than say an o-linemen, I disagreed simply because you can set your ratio anyway you want. The biggest thing screwing the Bombers ratio right now is their choice at safety busting and them using an american there. The plan was clearly a LB and safety on D and that's not working. Honestly I'd rather they used a defensive lineman as the 2nd NI on D but I guess they don't have anyone they feel is a full time guy there, but then again they gotta be as full time there as Cauchy is.

[pigseye]

Hard to believe that a team in the CFL can only start 2 NI's on their O & D line, that is the real problem that has been ignored despite player turnover.