Bye Week Thread: Complacency, Budget & Leadership,

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, BigBlue said:

LEADERSHIP

there has been much discussion about the best head coaches of all time making personnel decisions with their aging all-stars

perhaps the quickest road to high skill levels comes from having an excellent mentor… The mentor apprentice conducted by a true professional model teaches things that take years of experimenting for rookies and sophomores to learn

what is vital to leadership is something called "succession planning"… It applies to football as much as it does to business

in 2024 & 2025 we are going to have to make some decisions (gradually hopefully) on the following players

Jeff Jeffcoat

Adam Bighill

Brandon Alexander

Winston Rose

Willie Jefferson

Stanley Bryant

Jamarius Hardrick

Patrick Neufeld

Zach Collaros

that is nine players on the leeward side of their careers... Still all-stars but for how long?

If we could do a couple this year heading into the playoffs, and three in spring Of 24 and the rest in the spring of 25, we have a decent shot at continuing to be champions

I have been a devoted bomber fan since 1961. In that time I have seen several dynasties including the one we are in. Most of them made the same mistake in not planning to grow new all-stars. The years of drought that followed as management panicked were appalling. Turnarounds at that point where well-nigh impossible.

What O'Shea built here with Walters has been amazing. However, O'Shea is a relatively young head coach. Like my first successful business I thought it would last forever, until it didn't. 

Somebody needs to give MOS some mentoring on renewal. As the posters have said above we could do that now by getting some of the taxi squad onto the field. We do not have to wait for next man up. Injured players are not great mentors.

May the dynasty continue!

 

This isn't just on MOS. It's also on Walters & to a lesser extent Wade Miller. Teams don't hire mentors. The GMs have to work with the HC's unless they have both jobs then that presents a whole myriad of problems unto itself. no one is there for advice when it's needed. Look at the issues Dave Dickenson is having in Calgary this season. He doesn't have the steady hand of John Hufnagel around to guide him anymore. He's it. What he says goes. That is what this stupid Admin cap does. Good people are let go who shouldn't be. Or titles are merged or experienced older coaches & managers leave. 

[Goalie]

I'm not saying he's a guy but... if Stanley Bryant for example doesn't feel like showing up until the 2nd half or If Zach can't complete a pass for a quarter, I fail to see how that could be on coaching.  

It's on the players 

Training camp gave me country club vibes, our vets didn't even practice really. Complacency appears to be a factor. Maybe when u win 2 Grey cups tho and appear in a 3rd one only to lose in somewhat heart breaking style, perhaps it's hard not to be a bit complacent. I suppose when u look at the country club training camp atmosphere tho, coaching would play a role also and not just osh but buck hall osh and the entire crew. 

Roster management also. Jackson and Schmekl just = handicapping the roster on purpose.  It's odd actually. I'm curious if that is purely osh decision or if hall has a say there. Kramdi who is a whipping boy, surely that's a hall decision since starting D and he's the coordinator 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Goalie

[Noeller]

14 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I'm not saying he's a guy but... if Stanley Bryant for example doesn't feel like showing up until the 2nd half or If Zach can't complete a pass for a quarter, I fail to see how that could be on coaching.  

It's on the players 

Training camp gave me country club vibes, our vets didn't even practice really. Complacency appears to be a factor. Maybe when u win 2 Grey cups tho and appear in a 3rd one only to lose in somewhat heart breaking style, perhaps it's hard not to be a bit complacent. I suppose when u look at the country club training camp atmosphere tho, coaching would play a role also and not just osh but buck hall osh and the entire crew. 

Roster management also. Jackson and Schmekl just = handicapping the roster on purpose.  It's odd actually. I'm curious if that is purely osh decision or if hall has a say there. Kramdi who is a whipping boy, surely that's a hall decision since starting D and he's the coordinator 

Lots of relevant questions in here, for sure, but what it highlights is that none of us really know what's going on because we're not in the rooms. We don't know who the decision makers are. Even Booch, who's been closer to this than anyone here, or JBR, who has been a coach at junior level.... don't really know how the decision making process works for THIS particular group. We can all just sit and guess but nobody really knows. Lots of questions, indeed, and zero chance we get any answers any time soon.

[Booch]

In the end...the HC makes the roster decisions...and generally his coordinators give input on things...but fact of matter the HC will put a roster together who the coordinator has to work with.

It's why some games you see a guy stand there all game and not take a rep...he's a last resort and basically not really part of the coordinators plan...he gotta use what he's provided with...and some won't use certain guys because the end product is on them...so why would they wanna compromise their unit...

Kramdi is who Osh is giving Hall...and knowing Osh and his ideals has told hall he wants 2 Canadian starters on defence even tho we don't do anything to take advantage of that with our roster.

That is a concern of mine for yrs actually with OSH and a bit of favorite thing with Canadians at times over Americans more so than an American coach would ..no knock on Canadians but it's not always ideal...I guess also it's with military...seeing as he doing the reverse with Jackson...that's the only reason I can see that move...

[Slimy Sculpin]

I'm starting to get  a little concerned about the recent performances by the Bombers and that concern is being compounded by the knowledgeable posters here who have been and still are concerned about roster management in particular. It seems to me that if posters here see issues with roster management and other coaching deficiencies, Coach O'Shea's supervisors (Walters and, ultimately, Miller) see this too. If the bottom line is to win (resulting in more butts in the stands and $$s in the coffers), surely they might pull the HC aside for a chat about this. If the HC is not fielding an optimum roster which might involve efficiently utilizing the new roster rules (designated Americans, designated nationalized Americans and designated nationals...gotta admit that I can't figure them out), might not that be grounds for at least a "talking to" by the GM or President? Thoughts?

[BigBlue]

 

COMPLACENCY

I know our players are top drawer.  I do not believe a single player is dogging it. That's notwithstanding the non-rotation on the D line. Of course players have to pace themselves. Everyone in the league does.

So why are we seeing the letdowns?

Our top people are all in. There is no give up in them.

I am just seeing the cumulative effect of small "nicks". I would not be surprised if Collaros  is not suffering from the same. I also believe he is trying to do too much. Could he relax a little better? I think so.  They can't double-team the whole receiving core.  We have to see the lacks in their unbalanced schemes. And we can just adjust and play to that. You don't have to go into the dressing to make adjustments.

We used to be amongst the best red zone defences. Now, it's different and I'm not sure how.

Does Hall not have a different philosophy inside our own 25 yard line. Are we filling gaps? Are we hitting them with the unexpected? We picking the right moments to blitz? Used to be we just rolled up our sleeves down there, and six points turned into three.

Are we lacking the intensity and imagination to get it done?

I don't think we can just out-wrastle them. We have never done that kind of thing very well.

There are so many little things that just aren't happening. We need a big play here and there. That puts new oxygen in the blood.

We have way too many  close games. The one thing I believe we have never done well is press home our advantage when we have it. We seem to resort to a Lapo-style defensive style when we have the lead.

I personally would have been gratified if we had scored 20 points or more in the second half of the second Saskatchewan game. That's not pride. That is chest thumping confidence.

It's been a long time since I've seen a 60 point game and it would've been the perfect prescription for what ails us. Football is not about gentlemen's rules. If we had scored 65 points in that game we would been singing at the top of our lungs:

"WE ARE  THE CHAMPIONS!"
Then we would be taken more seriously. We would take ourselves more seriously!
 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

In the end...the HC makes the roster decisions...and generally his coordinators give input on things...but fact of matter the HC will put a roster together who the coordinator has to work with.

It's why some games you see a guy stand there all game and not take a rep...he's a last resort and basically not really part of the coordinators plan...he gotta use what he's provided with...and some won't use certain guys because the end product is on them...so why would they wanna compromise their unit...

Kramdi is who Osh is giving Hall...and knowing Osh and his ideals has told hall he wants 2 Canadian starters on defence even tho we don't do anything to take advantage of that with our roster.

That is a concern of mine for yrs actually with OSH and a bit of favorite thing with Canadians at times over Americans more so than an American coach would ..no knock on Canadians but it's not always ideal...I guess also it's with military...seeing as he doing the reverse with Jackson...that's the only reason I can see that move...

They haven't been "starting" 2 Canadians on D.  They've been declaring 6 on O and 1 on D.  Parker and Clements weren't designated last week for example.  They could have subbed in on D as much as they wanted.

They are putting Kramdi on the field because they want to.  They chose to sit Darby, who also was not being used as a DA, and could have put him in whenever they wanted for Kramdi.  I doubt that's O'Shea overruling Hall given Hall's tenure here and in the league.

[17to85]

Kramdi earned his shot like it or not. 

[Booch]

We declare 6 on offence and one on defence but we yes are starting 8 Canadians...not sure how u say we are not..and we don't take advantage of that by ever going all American up front in games when we could ..fielding a best defensive set...that's what I was saying

Kramdi has been inserted for whatever reason...hardly earned and if that's the best we have...over every one else...and then refuse to upgrade that spot then it's an epic coaching and scouting fail

 

 

[rebusrankin]

Do we miss Ridgemaiden?

[17to85]

1 minute ago, rebusrankin said:

Do we miss Ridgemaiden?

I think so.

[wbbfan]

11 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Kramdi earned his shot like it or not. 

I don’t disagree. Darby played him self off the team not just out of the starting line up. Maybe he’s hurt or has some thing else going on. 
 Parker earned a look too though last year. I think Kramdi suffers more playing Sam than he would half. Might even be better off at S. he has a great knack at getting into a position to make a play. He struggles with making the play consistently. At Sam even half you need more the consistent play than the flashy big play. That’s kind of what Houston and ba have fallen in to. Selling out for picks and hits respectively. 
 

Id much rather our ni db be ford, but if we want to grow with Kramdi as long as he keeps making progress it does make sense. Of course I’d rather go with an extra imp dt then start 8 nis. 

[17to85]

50 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

much rather our ni db be ford,

Well no **** but he's not under contract si we do what we can.

[Blue In BC]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Well no **** but he's not under contract si we do what we can.

NFL week 3 is approaching and Ford still has no deal even for a PR.  OTOH, Bombers will be going into game week 15 of the CFL season. If he doesn't sign back in Winnipeg before the practising resumes, he's going to be out in the cold somewhat. No deals and no game checks.  The longer it takes the less value he has in 2023. He might become trade bait for a team that wants him for 2024.

I wonder what he's thinking?

[Sard]

3 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I don’t disagree. Darby played him self off the team not just out of the starting line up. Maybe he’s hurt or has some thing else going on. 
 Parker earned a look too though last year. I think Kramdi suffers more playing Sam than he would half. Might even be better off at S. he has a great knack at getting into a position to make a play. He struggles with making the play consistently. At Sam even half you need more the consistent play than the flashy big play. That’s kind of what Houston and ba have fallen in to. Selling out for picks and hits respectively. 
 

Id much rather our ni db be ford, but if we want to grow with Kramdi as long as he keeps making progress it does make sense. Of course I’d rather go with an extra imp dt then start 8 nis. 

Darby is definitely hurt... saw him walking around at the fan appreciation day and he had a very noticeable limp.  Not to say that he didn't also play himself out of the starting lineup as well, but he is hurt.

[ddanger]

18 hours ago, Noeller said:

Lots of relevant questions in here, for sure, but what it highlights is that none of us really know what's going on because we're not in the rooms. We don't know who the decision makers are. Even Booch, who's been closer to this than anyone here, or JBR, who has been a coach at junior level.... don't really know how the decision making process works for THIS particular group. We can all just sit and guess but nobody really knows. Lots of questions, indeed, and zero chance we get any answers any time soon.

absolutely correct sir. 

[Stickem]

1 hour ago, Blue In BC said:

 

I wonder what he's thinking?

I wonder what we're thinking?...Are we or did we give him a call to find out what his latest plans are.....IF he comes back to the CFL he's definitely our player until Feb. of 24'....after that I'm not so sure....He can pick up a few cheques now....and who knows maybe some Cup dough,can't see him throwing that away....???

[voodoochylde]

35 minutes ago, Stickem said:

I wonder what we're thinking?...Are we or did we give him a call to find out what his latest plans are.....IF he comes back to the CFL he's definitely our player until Feb. of 24'....after that I'm not so sure....He can pick up a few cheques now....and who knows maybe some Cup dough,can't see him throwing that away....???

It's not like he got much of a chance to see the field while he was here.  Spot duty due to injuries - acquitted himself nicely - sent back to the bench.  Maybe he's looking at playing with his brother in Edmonton?

[rebusrankin]

Ford is under contract next year as well.

[Noeller]

I read a quote from Osh shortly after Ford was released from the NFL, and he suggested they'd been in touch, but they would give him all the time he needed to explore all his options, but that he was always welcome back in Winnipeg, if that's the route he wanted to go. 

[Booch]

Well it's here or nowhere for 2 yrs unless he gets another NFL shot....which seems unlikely 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 hours ago, Stickem said:

I wonder what we're thinking?...Are we or did we give him a call to find out what his latest plans are.....IF he comes back to the CFL he's definitely our player until Feb. of 24'....after that I'm not so sure....He can pick up a few cheques now....and who knows maybe some Cup dough,can't see him throwing that away....???

February of 2025 is when he'd be a CFL free agent.

[Booch]

14 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

February of 2025 is when he'd be a CFL free agent.

thats a long time for young guy with minimal film to sit and do nothing...he will be back here...and I bet this yr

[bustamente]

Jammed Packed is reserved to half full IG West Rider games, so I will just say Sold Out

 

[Noeller]

**** I love this fan base...... really hope I get to be a part of this again in Mid-November.....