Bye Week Thread: Complacency, Budget & Leadership,

[pw13]

16 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I'd argue those aren't really losses. 

Muamba hasn't played this season, and likely won't. Harris has been effective in a small amount of playing time. The issue I was addressing was not their on-field performance but the Argos' ability to afford Kelly's contract when it kicks in next season. Those two guys probably account for about $250k; add in Bladek and that's over $400k in potential savings to be applied elsewhere.       

[pw13]

15 minutes ago, Booch said:

Yeah...hardly a loss there...they have a group of draftees tho that will need re-upping...and a couple 2nd yr guys now still on the cheap...they not gonna be the same squad next yr

There's no question the Argos have a bunch of NATs coming to the end of their three-year rookie deals: Brissett, Cassar, Giffen, Hoyte and Nield. They've all been mostly backups/STers although Brissett and Nield have started at times, and Giffen had a monster game early this year. All all of them can expect to be paid more next year. The Argos might not be able to keep all of them, but will keep the ones they absolutely need to keep. They already re-signed the most important 3rd-year NAT, Peter Nicastro. They won't be the same squad next year; no team is, obviously.       

[Booch]

They have 2 guys on the dline as well...plus that end they signed makes a boatload...the db who came back this yr on a 1 yr deal won't be cheap...I sure Oakman will be looking for a nice bump...be interesting to see what transpires there

[Blue In BC]

30 minutes ago, pw13 said:

Muamba hasn't played this season, and likely won't. Harris has been effective in a small amount of playing time. The issue I was addressing was not their on-field performance but the Argos' ability to afford Kelly's contract when it kicks in next season. Those two guys probably account for about $250k; add in Bladek and that's over $400k in potential savings to be applied elsewhere.       

Muamba's  salary won't count against the SMS. It's a savings to cost of business perhaps but it can't be applied as a shift to Kelly in that sense.  Bladek if he retires or is released but someone has to replace him.  The Argos will have to make some choices to off set the increase to Kelly. We'll see how they do it.

[17to85]

Yep Collaros getting his big pay day impacted the Bombers depth tremendously.  Anyone thinking kellys big new contract won't impact the argos is only fooling themselves. Especially as it's the cfl and a lot of other guys are going to want raises too as contracts are always expiring. Funny thing about teams that have success, lots of guys deserving of raises on those teams.

[pw13]

1 hour ago, Blue In BC said:

Muamba's  salary won't count against the SMS. It's a savings to cost of business perhaps but it can't be applied as a shift to Kelly in that sense.  Bladek if he retires or is released but someone has to replace him.  The Argos will have to make some choices to off set the increase to Kelly. We'll see how they do it.

The fact that some salaries won't count against the cap is precisely why the savings CAN be applied elsewhere.  If Muamba is getting paid $150k, and none of it is on the cap, the $150k can be spent elsewhere within the cap.

Bladek has already been replaced by Nicastro, who has a contract for next season and beyond, with Giffen (who will need to be re-signed) and other young o-linemen coming up behind. 

Yes, the Argos -- like every team, every year -- will have choices to make. But they seem fairly adept at cap management, and I don't expect them to fall to pieces anymore than the Bombers did when Collaros got a big salary boost, Their QB expense in 2024 will be much higher than it was in 2023, but not massively higher than it was in 2022.

  

[17to85]

1 hour ago, pw13 said:

The fact that some salaries won't count against the cap is precisely why the savings CAN be applied elsewhere.  If Muamba is getting paid $150k, and none of it is on the cap, the $150k can be spent elsewhere within the cap

Really only matters this season and Kelly is still cheap this season. Also discounting the salary of the Mumbai replacement so at best you're only saving half of that 150k from muamba.

[Mark H.]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Really only matters this season and Kelly is still cheap this season. 

They can use to front load contracts at the end of this year.

[17to85]

23 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

They can use to front load contracts at the end of this year.

If they have room. A team that was over the cap last season anyway may not have all that much room

[Blue In BC]

5 hours ago, pw13 said:

The fact that some salaries won't count against the cap is precisely why the savings CAN be applied elsewhere.  If Muamba is getting paid $150k, and none of it is on the cap, the $150k can be spent elsewhere within the cap.

Bladek has already been replaced by Nicastro, who has a contract for next season and beyond, with Giffen (who will need to be re-signed) and other young o-linemen coming up behind. 

Yes, the Argos -- like every team, every year -- will have choices to make. But they seem fairly adept at cap management, and I don't expect them to fall to pieces anymore than the Bombers did when Collaros got a big salary boost, Their QB expense in 2024 will be much higher than it was in 2023, but not massively higher than it was in 2022.

  

Clearly you don't understand the SMS or the cap. The Argos spent whatever they spent or will spend in 2023. Unless Muamba got an advance of any significance, then ZERO $$$'s of his money was spent towards the 2023 SMS.  You can't spend money elsewhere you didn't spend in the 1st place on a player that never made the roster ( against the SMS ). The Argos paid Williams to be their MLB and he was a 1st pick in the draft and not working for chump change.

 

Nobody said they'd fall to pieces but every team that gave their QB a very large increase has had to make roster adjustments. Lions did with Reilly, Winnipeg did it with Collaros as 2 examples. Some teams manage it better than others so we'll see how a probable increase for Kelly @ $500K compared to 2023 impacts their roster. It's a very large jump in his SMS hit.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Blue In BC

[Super Duper Negatron]

Watching the Bisons and this Tachinksi kid is impressive at QB.

[Super Duper Negatron]

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Watching the Bisons and this Tachinksi kid is impressive at QB.

I know literally nothing about U sports football, but this kid continues to impress me. Throws a real accurate ball and makes good decisions. Is he a legit prospect or is this game a one off?

[Noeller]

Congrats to the young lady who kicks for the Bisons and became the first female player to score a point (with a FG) in CIS. Hopefully this is the start of a lot more!

[Super Duper Negatron]

3 converts for her today as well.

[Dr Zaius]

Maier is terrible. 

[Super Duper Negatron]

Maya Turner with the winning FG in OT!

[Noeller]

Couldn't love it more... attagirl!!

[MOBomberFan]

That's history right there!

[wbbfan]

9 hours ago, Booch said:

They have 2 guys on the dline as well...plus that end they signed makes a boatload...the db who came back this yr on a 1 yr deal won't be cheap...I sure Oakman will be looking for a nice bump...be interesting to see what transpires there

Love to see oakman here 

[GCn20]

9 hours ago, Blue In BC said:

Clearly you don't understand the SMS or the cap. The Argos spent whatever they spent or will spend in 2023. Unless Muamba got an advance of any significance, then ZERO $$$'s of his money was spent towards the 2023 SMS.  You can't spend money elsewhere you didn't spend in the 1st place on a player that never made the roster ( against the SMS ). The Argos paid Williams to be their MLB and he was a 1st pick in the draft and not working for chump change.

 

Nobody said they'd fall to pieces but every team that gave their QB a very large increase has had to make roster adjustments. Lions did with Reilly, Winnipeg did it with Collaros as 2 examples. Some teams manage it better than others so we'll see how a probable increase for Kelly @ $500K compared to 2023 impacts their roster. It's a very large jump in his SMS hit.

When an existing player gets an extra 550k in salary the next year it will have impact on the rest of the roster. It just stands to reason.

[pw13]

18 hours ago, Blue In BC said:

Clearly you don't understand the SMS or the cap. The Argos spent whatever they spent or will spend in 2023. Unless Muamba got an advance of any significance, then ZERO $$$'s of his money was spent towards the 2023 SMS.  You can't spend money elsewhere you didn't spend in the 1st place on a player that never made the roster ( against the SMS ). The Argos paid Williams to be their MLB and he was a 1st pick in the draft and not working for chump change.

 

I fully understand how the cap works. Zero dollars of Muamba's salary (excluding any signing bonus) is being applied against the cap. Same with Bladek. Now they have a third of Harris's salary to play with as well, since his final six games would have been charged against the cap if he was active, but won't be now that he's on IR.

All teams go into a season knowing they will spend more than the cap, because of long-term injuries. What we don't know is how teams build that into their cap planning, but having two high-salaried guys like Muamba and Bladek on IR all season (and perhaps this was always the plan) allows the team to spend elsewhere and remain cap-compliant. I'm confident the Argos used some of that "elsewhere" money to boost Kelly's 2023 salary, and they likely used some of it to pay a front-loaded signing bonus to Nicastro. 

And again, I fully understand that Kelly's larger salary in 2024 will need to be accounted for within the cap. Some guys will depart -- as happens every year with every team. The idea that they're in for a major roster overhaul because of it seems exaggerated to me, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

  

9 hours ago, GCn20 said:

When an existing player gets an extra 550k in salary the next year it will have impact on the rest of the roster. It just stands to reason.

If we can believe this story (Toronto Argos make QB Chad Kelly highest-paid player in CFL with three-year contract worth $1.865 million - 3DownNation), the difference between Kelly's take this year and next year is closer to $300k.

[Stickem]

I don't know what it will take to actually get the CFL fans to turn out in the big smoke...They have a very competitive team.....won a Cup and have what it appears to be a franchise qb........The management is solid and have put together what appears to be a winner.....It's sad to see the fans in T.O. staying away and if it weren't for the rest of the CFL Chadwick and his boys wouldn't be paid anything....The CFL has to carry them and it's sad to see a storied franchise like that having to be carried year....after year ...after year....especially with their population....The 'nfl wannabe' cry has died down there to a loud roar recently, but those fans are still there and we seem unable to convert them...Some things never change

[HardCoreBlue]

44 minutes ago, Stickem said:

I don't know what it will take to actually get the CFL fans to turn out in the big smoke...They have a very competitive team.....won a Cup and have what it appears to be a franchise qb........The management is solid and have put together what appears to be a winner.....It's sad to see the fans in T.O. staying away and if it weren't for the rest of the CFL Chadwick and his boys wouldn't be paid anything....The CFL has to carry them and it's sad to see a storied franchise like that having to be carried year....after year ...after year....especially with their population....The 'nfl wannabe' cry has died down there to a loud roar recently, but those fans are still there and we seem unable to convert them...Some things never change

RAPTORS, BLUEJAYS, LEAFS

argos

[bustamente]

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

RAPTORS, BLUEJAYS, LEAFS

argos

You forgot Toronto FC which out draws the Argos pretty significantly. As for NFL football in Toronto you need a owner who would have to pony up a significant expansion fee or buy a team for some ungodly number. Then you need to build a state of the art football stadium which by the time they might get considered might cost 5B. 

[HardCoreBlue]

56 minutes ago, bustamente said:

You forgot Toronto FC which out draws the Argos pretty significantly. As for NFL football in Toronto you need a owner who would have to pony up a significant expansion fee or buy a team for some ungodly number. Then you need to build a state of the art football stadium which by the time they might get considered might cost 5B. 

Yup I couldn’t remember their name.