Bombers at Lions- very early talk

[Bigblue204]

5 hours ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Two of my complaints in training camp and after the first game or two were:

- Horrible field position after kicking off

- Seemingly no upgrades (or even attempted upgrades) on defence

Months later and we still have the exact same problems. And I know **** about football! 

 

11-4 and ******* pathetic

[Bigblue204]

46 minutes ago, bustamente said:

I don't think that O'Shea is going anywhere in the off season but the good will towards him for the 2 Cups has taken a beating this year and going out early in the playoffs may make the voices louder. 

Literally the only complaints I hear about the team are on here. I mean, people aren't happy after losses (most understand that you're not going to win every game)...but never have I heard anyone, whether it's people that I know understand the game or people who are just casual fans, even mention moving on from MOS. The fact that I'm even typing something like this is idiotic imo.

[TrueBlue4ever]

5 hours ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Two of my complaints in training camp and after the first game or two were:

- Horrible field position after kicking off

- Seemingly no upgrades (or even attempted upgrades) on defence

Months later and we still have the exact same problems. And I know **** about football! 

 

 

 

So of all the posts from today I could have responded to, none of which would have generated anything more than continued barbs being thrown (although the continued angst is getting pretty hilarious to read), I figured this might be one topic we MIGHT generate a good debate on. 

Coverage woes/horrible position after kickoffs:

Where do people think the problems lie? For our return game, it’s easy and most likely correct that it all boils down to Grant being out. For our kicks, is it:

a) the kickers 

b) the cover team (that would include the loss of Miller to injury) 

c) the coaching scheme

d) the rules (moving the hashmarks in)

I actually put it largely on (a). O’Shea says they changed the scheme this year. Is that cause or effect? I kind of think it is the latter, as we have new kickers. Sheehan does his weird Aussie thing where he line drives or bounces low kicks end over end, sometimes to the far corner. But he is not allowing hang time with a normal spiral punt for the cover team to get down there, and when he does not kick between the near side numbers and the sidelines the cover team running their lanes have more open field to account for that is in play. Castillo is great at his field goals, but a ton of his kickoffs seem to get no further than the 25 yard line, so opponents seem to routinely start at the 50 or so. Would simply having a deeper kickoff or a proper spiral hang time kick solve our problems, and not necessitate a change in scheme to account for the bad kicking, or does the problem lie elsewhere?

Edited October 5, 2023 by TrueBlue4ever

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

I have a feeling that someone is going to successfully pull off the Antwi onside punt on us this game or in the playoffs... 

[Pepper_Brooks]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

I mean props to the Leo’s for making some hype for it. Gravy bowl is pretty funny. 

I used to live in Winnipeg but now call Vancouver home. I must say, I admire what the Lions have achieved in terms of marketing and enhancing the fan experience since Doman took ownership. Attending games in BC has become a lot more enjoyable in the past couple of seasons. I make sure to catch all the Winnipeg and Edmonton games (my good friend's favorite team) when they're in BC.

[JohnnyAbonny]

To be clear, I’ve been critical of roster management, yes. There’s still no head coach I’d rather have here than Mike O’Shea. 
 

[Noeller]

I was just thinking about prior to 2019.... 17to85 and I would make the joke that "even when we do finally win a Cup, someone like TBurg is gonna say 'Yeah, but you didn't win it the RIGHT way'...."

and that's kinda what feels like is happening right now. 

 

Yeah, we have this generationally good team and first in the division for most of the past 3 years, with records being set...... but they're doing things the wrong way and we might go back to being just really good instead of generationally great because they're not doing it the way I think they should..."

3 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

To be clear, I’ve been critical of roster management, yes. There’s still no head coach I’d rather have here than Mike O’Shea. 
 

I think every single person on this board has been critical of it.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Noeller

[Booch]

7 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

I have a feeling that someone is going to successfully pull off the Antwi onside punt on us this game or in the playoffs... 

THATS the kind of stuff our coach did...and implemented rather routinely to catch teams napping.....hasn't happened in forever...same with going for 2 points....and the more you practice in game...the better you are...We couldn't get it done vs Ottawa...and lost....and were abysmal with it last game tho it didn't really have much an effect....my take is staff has become lazy, and as mentioned...complacent with status quo...even if not working

 

21 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

So of all the posts from today I could have responded to, none of which would have generated anything more than continued barbs being thrown (although the continued angst is getting pretty hilarious to read), I figured this might be one topic we MIGHT generate a good debate on. 

Coverage woes/horrible position after kickoffs:

Where do people think the problems lie? For our return game, it’s easy and most likely correct that it all boils down to Grant being out. For our kicks, is it:

a) the kickers 

b) the cover team (that would include the loss of Miller to injury) 

c) the coaching scheme

d) the rules (moving the hashmarks in)

I actually put it largely on (a). O’Shea says they changed the scheme this year. Is that cause or effect? I kind of think it is the latter, as we have new kickers. Sheehan does his weird Aussie thing where he line drives or bounces low kicks end over end, sometimes to the far corner. But he is not allowing hang time with a normal spiral punt for the cover team to get down there, and when he does not kick between the near side numbers and the sidelines the cover team running their lanes have more open field to account for that is in play. Castillo is great at his field goals, but a ton of his kickoffs seem to get no further than the 25 yard line, so opponents seem to routinely start at the 50 or so. Would simply having a deeper kickoff or a proper spiral hang time kick solve our problems, and not necessitate a change in scheme to account for the bad kicking, or does the problem lie elsewhere?

you somewhat nailed it here....whatever the new scheme was that we felt the need to go to, should have been scrap heaped halfway into season.....plain and simple....the continued running it over and over with same lousy results is pretty much the definition of insanity.

Miller and Hansen missing....would that have helped...most definately....that being said, the drop off of 2 guys in talent and skill should not have had such an effect, and if it was, then changes to personnel should have been looked into first, before reverting back...neither of which has been done....so to me thats a coaching decision/issue.....The punter tho as mentioned by you, and others isn't helping matters....on many punts the returner has had 10..15 yards to get to speed and survey the scene with little to no resistance....not what you want in a punt coverage, and a easy call of using a more traditional punt then should have been implemented, and use of the Aussie style one maybe the odd time to keep a returner honest....for all the times we have been dinged with an illegal punt, or a gouging return vs a nice one pinning a team deep is leaning very heavily to the big return/penalty.

Grant back is huge, and should allow us to starting flipping the field with some regularity, as well get a possible score out of it.....after his injury, after 3...4 weeks max a true returner should have been rostered....why one wasn't is again a coaching issue, and in my opinion another fail on their part....status quo and "all the guys are #1's" comment doesn't hold weight and was apparent wasn't true

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I was just thinking about prior to 2019.... 17to85 and I would make the joke that "even when we do finally win a Cup, someone like TBurg is gonna say 'Yeah, but you didn't win it the RIGHT way...." and that's kinda what feels like is happening right now. "

 

Yeah, we HAD this generationally good team and first in the division for most of the past 3 years, with records being set...... but they're doing things the wrong way and we might go back to being just really good instead of generationally great because they're not doing it the way I think they should..."

I think every single person on this board has been critical of it.

Tweaked that for you...it's past tense at moment but easily reclaimed

[Tracker]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

To be clear, I’ve been critical of roster management, yes. There’s still no head coach I’d rather have here than Mike O’Shea. 
 

Agreed. However, O'Shea is not infallible and shows every sign of being human. The criticism leveled at him is justified for the most part, and some of the same concerns surfaced late last season. The Bombers struggled in the playoffs and there is legitimate concern that the pattern is being repeated this year.

[JohnnyAbonny]

30 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Agreed. However, O'Shea is not infallible and shows every sign of being human. The criticism leveled at him is justified for the most part, and some of the same concerns surfaced late last season. The Bombers struggled in the playoffs and there is legitimate concern that the pattern is being repeated this year.

Agree with all of this. 

[rebusrankin]

I am happy with MOS as coach. I don't like the roster management. Still enjoy every game and of course am enjoying the success.

[Eternal optimist]

8 hours ago, Goalie said:

We rarely go for 2. No trickery, once in a Blue moon now. I mean some of us aren't exactly sure what he does on game days even

Don't mean to derail this thread - but why did we go for two when we were up by 4? Kicking the PAT and going up by 5 means if TO answered with a TD, they have to either go for 2, to go up by 3, or we could've won it with a FG... anyone got a good reason why were so adamant about going up by....6?

[HardCoreBlue]

6 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

It's natural for the positions you basically don't use in your scheme to have the most depth.

I'm mostly confused as to why we don't dress a 3rd kicker.

Knew it. Sarcasm.

[JohnnyAbonny]

15 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Don't mean to derail this thread - but why did we go for two when we were up by 4? Kicking the PAT and going up by 5 means if TO answered with a TD, they have to either go for 2, to go up by 3, or we could've won it with a FG... anyone got a good reason why were so adamant about going up by....6?

2 field goals for them to tie it I guess?

Or if the other team scores a TD, a last second Bomber FG miss could still potentially get the tying single. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by JohnnyAbonny

[Nolby]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

I am happy with MOS as coach. I don't like the roster management. Still enjoy every game and of course am enjoying the success.

None of us are fans of how the roster has been laid out for most weeks, but I'm sure they know the rules quite well and it's discussed for every game plan.......frustrating or not.

[HardCoreBlue]

This is no longer very early talk. Lesssss gooooooo.

Demski is due for a monster game.

[rebusrankin]

It'll be interesting to see if we try a few deep shots early like the last game or try to pound them in the run game.

[Tracker]

3 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

It'll be interesting to see if we try a few deep shots early like the last game or try to pound them in the run game.

Lions will stack the box in order to take Oliveira away, but that ought to open up the crossing routes, slants and quick outs. Woli/Demski time! And Lawler is way past due to break out.

[Bubba Zanetti]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

It'll be interesting to see if we try a few deep shots early like the last game or try to pound them in the run game.

[Piggy 1]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

It'll be interesting to see if we try a few deep shots early like the last game or try to pound them in the run game.

I wanna see No. 80 take opening kick off to house, make  em start fearing us early. Go Blue!

[Noeller]

10 hours ago, Piggy 1 said:

I wanna see No. 80 take opening kick off to house, make  em start fearing us early. Go Blue!

Wouldn't be the first time....against BC... in BC ....

[Stickem]

I'm concerned that if we play soft on the receivers, as has been happening lately, that Vaj will play dink and dunk all the way down field....that's his gravy...We have to pressure this guy and get him off his game early....Establishing our run game early will also open up a lot of offence, with our receivers getting space to do their thing....Our slow starts get a little concerning ...It would be nice to get an early lead instead of having to play catch up....Have to bring it tonight and show the leo's who is really no 1, the opposite happening will only bolster the media hype and the leo's will actually start to believe it.................GOBIGBLUE and 'just win baby'

[Goalie]

If I'm being honest, @wbbfan mentioned it yesterday and I feel it's not being talked about but he/she mentioned a possible disconnect between osh and Walters has developed.  Walters brings guys in, osh cuts them and keeps lesser players like Jackson and Schmekl around. What do ppl think of that? 

 

Also, if you could only keep one 

Osh or Walters? Who do u keep and why? 

Just for discussion purposes 

 

In the end 11 and 4 is 11 and 4  

Edited October 6, 2023 by Goalie

[TBURGESS]

16 hours ago, Noeller said:

I was just thinking about prior to 2019.... 17to85 and I would make the joke that "even when we do finally win a Cup, someone like TBurg is gonna say 'Yeah, but you didn't win it the RIGHT way'...."

and that's kinda what feels like is happening right now. 

And yet it's not me arguing.

[JuranBoldenRules]

It all comes down to pass rush and that pass rush being disciplined for our defense.  Don't allow the scrambles.  Make BC's QB play the game from the pocket and he will struggle.  The Bombers have been terrible at this so far this season and especially in the 2nd half of the season.