Friday Night Football - Bombers at Leos: GDT

[Bubba Zanetti]

16 hours ago, wbbfan said:

He’s the greatest natural football talent I’ve ever seen. 5’6 171 the dynamic change of direction speed was insane, the ability to instantly be at his top speed unreal, but the strength and toughness he possessed was truly freakish. Like grant now, he was just soo hard to take down once you did get a hand on him. He fumbled soo much the first two years just because he would fight to the death for a chance to get a few more inches. 
 It was common place to see him bounce off and fight off tackles from macs and dl. It was also especially hilarious when mike sellers would use him like a battering ram in pass pro at times lol. 

And as small as he was he was rarely injured. No one could ever get a clean lick on him due to his shiftiness and how elusive he was. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

[wbbfan]

On 2023-10-07 at 8:55 AM, MOBomberFan said:

Haha jeez I swear he must have snubbed you in the autograph line at fan appreciation day or something 😆Kola played just fine last night. All the pressure kept coming from Eli and Hardrick's side of the line from what I could tell.

Otherwise though I agree with the rest. Lawson needs to stay on and Jake can ease himself into the bench. Grant is a gamechanger, we are very fortunate to have him back in time for playoffs. Parker is indeed a speedy guy, noticeably faster than other guys on the field. This punter is bad and seemingly gets worse with every game. Cole has a bright future, hopefully here with the blue

What’s the kolo played fine based on?
Is it just because the right side allowed soo much pressure in pass pro? Cus that’s pretty weak, especially to launch such a silly extended tiff with maybe the most knowledgable poster here. 

Lots of posts have been made going into depth about kolo and his failings. Can’t get to second level reliably in the run game, weak at handing guys off, blitz pick up and adjustments etc. And into the value brought by great centres being more than blocking a guy heads up. With out a doubt in general kolo is the weak spot in the ol. Far from the only one, but the biggest no doubt. And in general when you have a sub par centre and see all stars struggle beside them you can expect a dramatic improvement with the one position being upgraded. 

[17to85]

Here's the thing... Kolo is "fine"... just that some people believe for good reasons that we could do better than fine at the position. 

[Rod Black]

88’s crunch.

 

[do or die]

Well....might not be able to play x's and o's on paper.....but think I do know a bit about the birds and the bees aspects of things..... hence, plan to still post here......

In the meantime... some folks should just save it for the opposition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nolby]

22 hours ago, Rod Black said:

88’s crunch.

 

I don't know how anyone couldn't love Rasheed. He's got a leaders presence, durable and hell of a team player.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Nolby

[MOBomberFan]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

What’s the kolo played fine based on?
Is it just because the right side allowed soo much pressure in pass pro? Cus that’s pretty weak, especially to launch such a silly extended tiff with maybe the most knowledgable poster here. 

Lots of posts have been made going into depth about kolo and his failings. Can’t get to second level reliably in the run game, weak at handing guys off, blitz pick up and adjustments etc. And into the value brought by great centres being more than blocking a guy heads up. With out a doubt in general kolo is the weak spot in the ol. Far from the only one, but the biggest no doubt. And in general when you have a sub par centre and see all stars struggle beside them you can expect a dramatic improvement with the one position being upgraded. 

No... don't want tiffs... koombaya, we're all Bomber fans here, even the chatbots (I kid, I kid)

I'm sincerely trying to watch the OL closely, this is what I'm seeing. As a group they spring leaks, and it's coming from all across the line at times, even our star tackles more often than I'm used to. This season and especially the last couple games Collaros has also been holding the ball longer than maybe he should/needs to, and at times runs himself straight into the pressure, that isn't helping anyone look consistently great. Hardrick had it happen to him the other night, ran his man wide by a good 7 or 8 yards and Collaros spun straight into the defender, not even Hardricks fault (I don't think). Not sure how it could be Kolas though, or how a different C would have led to a different result, not to cherry pick... I'm sure you could show me examples where he is the culprit and honestly I'd love to see them (no expectations though, but I would watch)

Yes, Kola is measurably undersized compared to other Cs, but that hasn't stopped Chris Walby from praising his play throughout the season. Is it just tire pumping or knowledgeable insight? Who am I to believe? I know I'm not supposed to trust Kola's high PFF score because PFF, I have it on good authority, is trash.

What I do know is Brady is off to the races, and he doesn't do it by himself, and an OL wins and loses as a group or so the cliche goes. It hasn't looked pretty but relative to the rest of the league, our Oline has to be counted as one of the best if not the best units right now. Crazy though that there is potential to be even better than we are right now, relative to the rest of the league. I'm all for it.

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Here's the thing... Kolo is "fine"... just that some people believe for good reasons that we could do better than fine at the position. 

And that's totally fair and I'm all for improvement at every position. As it stands the transition is inevitable, 3 year contract and all. I know he was ranked quite high on the Rimington Trophy watch list and that's a big deal... of course they've been using PFF since 2014 so... that's a neat detail... no matter, Eli looks undeniably good mauling guys in the heavy packages, if that's any indication then the future C of our Oline is promising

[SpeedFlex27]

10 hours ago, Booch said:

Well to babble your mouth off about things...and disputed opinions cause u don't know jack....a person should you would think cork their piehole...my opinion...u can watch stuff but not actually 'see" things....most you think would appreciate some kind of actual insight not just fan boi goo goo gaa gas 

 

Hang in there, Booch. 

[Booch]

16 hours ago, wbbfan said:

What’s the kolo played fine based on?
Is it just because the right side allowed soo much pressure in pass pro? Cus that’s pretty weak, especially to launch such a silly extended tiff with maybe the most knowledgable poster here. 

Lots of posts have been made going into depth about kolo and his failings. Can’t get to second level reliably in the run game, weak at handing guys off, blitz pick up and adjustments etc. And into the value brought by great centres being more than blocking a guy heads up. With out a doubt in general kolo is the weak spot in the ol. Far from the only one, but the biggest no doubt. And in general when you have a sub par centre and see all stars struggle beside them you can expect a dramatic improvement with the one position being upgraded. 

One guy has the onions to actually comment with actual reasoning and sees it as is..there are a good handful of ya'll...kudos my man...and bravo for not pandering to the masses...many of which are uneducated in the game and roll with them

 

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Hang in there, Booch. 

U know me...bothers me in the least and as have said in other means of convo it is entertaining and keeps me coming back and I post things at times just waiting  like a kid at xmas for the anticipated responses...many of which from a group of posters here I expect and anticipate it it from

Edited October 9, 2023 by Booch

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

it is entertaining and keeps me coming back and I post things at times just waiting  like a kid at xmas for the anticipated responses.

Are you actually admitting that you are a troll?

[17to85]

13 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Are you actually admitting that you are a troll?

Reads more to me like a guy truly hurt people would argue with him. 

Here's how I see it... booch is engaged in an argument that doesn't really exist and has taken it to a level where people are making fun of him now.

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Reads more to me like a guy truly hurt people would argue with him. 

Here's how I see it... booch is engaged in an argument that doesn't really exist and has taken it to a level where people are making fun of him now.

That’s an interesting, astute analysis. I had read it much the same way, that’s why his last comment caught me off guard a bit. 

I have been more than a little shocked about the disgruntlement around a 12-4 first place team this year. People lamenting the inevitable downfall and regression that will see us one and done in the playoffs. Kind of figured that after the previous 30 years of true misery, this heater we are on would leave nothing but joy and satisfaction in its wake, because they don’t come around often. Can’t figure the mindset of why some want to be glass half full (or worse) when there are no strong signs of regression given our record and overall performance this season. Every year is a crapshoot, there is always a chance we will lose, be it a player crapping the bed, a coaching error, another team catching fire at just the right time and plain beating you on any given Sunday, or just dumb luck going against you at the wrong time. Best you can realistically hope for is that your team is built to contend and get you in position to win it all, and then the other stuff will take care of itself. This regime has given us that team built to contend for the last 7 years or so. Not inclined to diss them now since we are still in the thick of it. 

[17to85]

Some people have built the roster "issues" into a much bigger deal than it actually is. And also think that by not completely dismissing certain players they are actually fanbois of said players. 

It's bizarre to me how this has been built up into this weird huge thing...

[Stickem]

I see Booch as a very well informed football guy....I think everyone would agree AND the way I read him is, sure we are doing well this season, BUT like every team there's still room for improvement ...Staying status quo can lead to be a stagnant regression factor.....Nothing wrong with offering a different aspect to our roster ...Certainly we are in the top rung in the west now....we'd like to stay there and by offering up a few changes doesn't hurt...I know a lot would say do not mess with success, but I'm going to offer up a Doug Brown quote when he said 'if you're not changing in this league you're not moving forward'....Changes like Booch offers up make a lot of sense but we'll live with Osh's moves....after all he's the head coach

Edited October 9, 2023 by Stickem

[TrueBlue4ever]

13 minutes ago, Stickem said:

I see Booch as a very well informed football guy....I think everyone would agree AND the way I read him is, sure we are doing well this season, BUT like every team there's still room for improvement ...Staying status quo can lead to be a stagnant regression factor.....Nothing wrong with offering a different aspect to our roster ...Certainly we are in the top rung in the west now....we'd like to stay there and by offering up a few changes doesn't hurt...I know a lot would say do not mess with success, but I'm going to offer up a Doug Brown quote when he said 'if you're not changing in this league you're not moving forward'....Changes like Booch offers up make a lot of sense but we'll live with Osh's moves....after all he's the head coach

I agree with all of that. I find the tipping point is where the lack of changes will spell our doom and gloom for some, and how O’Shea must be an arrogant prick who has lucked his way to winning in spite of his obvious failings, that some are too blind to see. I don’t think we are close to that scenario of imminent failure, others do. OK, difference of opinion, but the insults, gaslighting of those who disagree, reminders that certain opinions seem to be the only ones that matter because they used to play the game, and turning a coach’s decision or player’s roster spot into a character assassination of that person is over the top. At least to me, just my personal opinion. 

And I can certainly respect a heightened knowledge of the game and will defer to that opinion at times, which is why I defer to O’Shea and the coaching staff’s approach for the most part. The results would say fairly compellingly that they are doing the right things. And yes, they can be fairly questioned for their moves, we are entitled, but then we are also entitled to question the others who criticize O’Shea and use their self-proclaimed expertise to justify their position as beyond dissent, without being labelled as blind or fanboys or too ignorant to see it. 

Hopefully we can ALL get past the mud-slinging and get back to a good healthy respectful debate. And enjoy a bye week after such a big win. 

[Brandon]

55 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

 

It's bizarre to me how this has been built up into this weird huge thing...

People need something to ***** about after having a team with a gaudy record since Zach took over.

Jeez I remember the days when we struggled to pass for 200 yards and would take multiple back breaking penalties killing any chances for a win.

[17to85]

No-one ever argued the main points, just the over the top hyperbole.

[JohnnyAbonny]

Re: Kolo. While not a huge fan, a huge part of his position is making calls. Since OL are never micd up, we don’t know how poorly (or well) Kolo is doing at that aspect of his game. 
 

One could speculate at a reach, that the sometimes erratic play of Collaros could correlate..

Edited October 9, 2023 by JohnnyAbonny

[MOBomberFan]

36 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Re: Kolo. While not a huge fan, a huge part of his position is making calls. Since OL are never micd up, we don’t know how poorly (or well) Kolo is doing at that aspect of his game. 
 

One could speculate at a reach, that the sometimes erratic play of Collaros could correlate..

Definitely. I have to imagine reading a defense and calling the right protection is easy to test for and review in the film room, so the coaches (I hope) have an idea of what is happening on any given play. Admittedly I too speculate at a reach because I don't know either way, but maybe that has to do with what's keeping Eli as a backup and not a starter, obviously only the guys inside the locker room know for sure.

If we do get our backups some reps down the stretch I really want Eli at C to be one of them. Hard to judge guys in only a handful of starts but if he can blow the roof off, or nevermind that, even just stabilize things, then he should win the spot and there's one storyline put to bed for good. The all around better player should play, of course, and he needs a chance to prove he is the better player.

[Stickem]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 

 

Hopefully we can ALL get past the mud-slinging and get back to a good healthy respectful debate. And enjoy a bye week after such a big win. 

Agreed.........Diverse opinions are always welcome but it stops when fellow fans walk away from constructive criticism and drift into disparaging remarks....I think we've all experienced that..... So onward and upward.... and hey, we're all on the same team

[BBlink]

21 hours ago, Rod Black said:

88’s crunch.

 

In some ways I see this as a rallying point for playoffs. After this happened the Bombers all seemed to get an extra gear.

[wbbfan]

16 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

No... don't want tiffs... koombaya, we're all Bomber fans here, even the chatbots (I kid, I kid)

I'm sincerely trying to watch the OL closely, this is what I'm seeing. As a group they spring leaks, and it's coming from all across the line at times, even our star tackles more often than I'm used to. This season and especially the last couple games Collaros has also been holding the ball longer than maybe he should/needs to, and at times runs himself straight into the pressure, that isn't helping anyone look consistently great. Hardrick had it happen to him the other night, ran his man wide by a good 7 or 8 yards and Collaros spun straight into the defender, not even Hardricks fault (I don't think). Not sure how it could be Kolas though, or how a different C would have led to a different result, not to cherry pick... I'm sure you could show me examples where he is the culprit and honestly I'd love to see them (no expectations though, but I would watch)

Yes, Kola is measurably undersized compared to other Cs, but that hasn't stopped Chris Walby from praising his play throughout the season. Is it just tire pumping or knowledgeable insight? Who am I to believe? I know I'm not supposed to trust Kola's high PFF score because PFF, I have it on good authority, is trash.

What I do know is Brady is off to the races, and he doesn't do it by himself, and an OL wins and loses as a group or so the cliche goes. It hasn't looked pretty but relative to the rest of the league, our Oline has to be counted as one of the best if not the best units right now. Crazy though that there is potential to be even better than we are right now, relative to the rest of the league. I'm all for it.

And that's totally fair and I'm all for improvement at every position. As it stands the transition is inevitable, 3 year contract and all. I know he was ranked quite high on the Rimington Trophy watch list and that's a big deal... of course they've been using PFF since 2014 so... that's a neat detail... no matter, Eli looks undeniably good mauling guys in the heavy packages, if that's any indication then the future C of our Oline is promising

The tackles are showing issues, however ol alignment (gap size) also changes with the interior ol ability to pass pro. Our interior has been the source of a lot of pass pro issues too. 
 I was watching yoshi mostly as he was giving up the pressures. Here’s what I saw. 
 Firstly, bc did a great job of lining up their ends. Both our tackles are tall and long, but bc has been very good in the first and most recent game of aligning and timing snaps so the ends get a good start with out getting a hand on them. They also do a great job in general of winning hand fights. It’s a critically under rated part of pass rushing and pass pro. 
 So at the jump yoshi is in a tough spot needing to cover a lot of ground to stay in front of his man. This also leaves an interior lane open for a stunt twist or blitz if he kick slides aggressively. But, he seems to be struggling with that lateral movement. He’s barely able to cover ground or recover angle vs fast ends. This could be a lot of things, age, size, injury or a combination of that and more. Also, bc runs a heavy rotation of undersized athletic pass rushers that are hard to keep up with for any one. 
Once he’s engaged with speed by a de out of position he stays none committal to recovering. He does try to match hip angle or drive his man up field he instead ends up looping and following his man to the qb. Props to him for not taking bad penalties in those positions, though some times a holding call is better than a sack. Most guys in his position panic and mug by default and generate a ton of flags. 
 In run pro he’s usually well down field even earlier this year he was flying into the flats and down field on the pin and pull screen at times. Vs bc he seemed to be a turret trying to pancake but not even trailing pile engaging position. 
 

This time of year our ol always seems to be playing banged up which is no surprise given their age. Hopefully we see the west wrapped up soon and Richmond getting a lot of play while yoshi especially but also Bryant rest. 
 

I don’t think size in an issue per se. It’s the combination of his being the size of young couture and having Matt Sheridan mobility. I think he’s valuable as a 6th ol. But our former star ol are no longer able to carry guys and need a guy or guys who can carry them a bit. 
 If we had couture and desjarlais I think we’d a given up half as many sacks and won two more games with ease. 
 

pff has been really under whelming and lack lustre. It’s also easy to over grade a centre especially when teams aren’t playing nose. It’s also note worth imo that when our ol and team plays well he grades high as does the whole ol but he never puts up a good performance when the other ol don’t. 
 

Yeah eli is a beast in the run game. His under performance in pass pro at guard was a concern but pass pro at c is a lot different. I don’t think he’s played much guard. Some guys struggle randomly at guard. 

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Some people have built the roster "issues" into a much bigger deal than it actually is. And also think that by not completely dismissing certain players they are actually fanbois of said players. 

It's bizarre to me how this has been built up into this weird huge thing...

Don’t agree. I think roster issues are at the crux of not playing more aggressive in the secondary and most all our problems. That said, some of the roster issues is just that our old stars have gotten real old. 

 

1 hour ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Re: Kolo. While not a huge fan, a huge part of his position is making calls. Since OL are never micd up, we don’t know how poorly (or well) Kolo is doing at that aspect of his game. 
 

One could speculate at a reach, that the sometimes erratic play of Collaros could correlate..

That’s true. The easiest way to see this is how they communicate mid play switching off twists and stunts. Any one really interested should try to watch that. When you follow the ball you miss most of the play. 

I think the pressure and hits in general have collaros pissed off most of the time and tilted at others. He’s not shell shocked from his days in ssk and ham as a knock around guy but it certainly effects him

 

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Don’t agree. I think roster issues are at the crux of not playing more aggressive in the secondary and most all our problems. That said, some of the roster issues is just that our old stars have gotten real old

Roster issues to me are minor. Yes having a better DL rotation would improve some things, but how much? Debatable. I don't see the D as the main reason for any loss really. Given the stat power, salary and depth on offense there's a lot less forgiveness when they don't perform. 

Honestly I think it was a rather poor effort from the scouts this last offseason. I wanted to see some new faces on the DL and linebacker especially but watching the preseason games no one stood out. I recall discussing that post game with friends and saying the only one who came close to standing out was Haba, and he was the only guy they kept. 

We got some old dudes and not a lot of depth in some places. To me that's on the recruitment as much as the coaches.