Grey Cup - Game Week Thread

[WinnipegGordo]

 

[WildPath]

46 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Ssh, he can hear you.

They say the CFL introduced radios in the QBs helmets to negate the unfair advantage Maas had.

[Mark F]

52 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

It should grind the Riders butts that they threw away the wrong guy.

yes.... Faj has been brilliant this season. 😂

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, Mark F said:

yes.... Faj has been brilliant this season. 😂

Didn’t he get sacked like 7 times in the east final too lol. 
 We don’t even have to do any thing different or get sacks though. If we do the same thing we did to vaj and don’t get the sacks cf is toast. 

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Ritchie Hall can be maddening at times with the bend but don't break stuff but my God when he's got the bodies to execute the man can get some great performances out of a defense. His ability to adapt in game is such a strength.

Especially in the play offs. 

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Didn’t he get sacked like 7 times in the east final too lol. 
 We don’t even have to do any thing different or get sacks though. If we do the same thing we did to vaj and don’t get the sacks cf is toast. 

Especially in the play offs. 

Exactly. Same thing. Contain and break them down. 

On offence, run until they stop you, then move to the air. 

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, Booch said:

maybe we do it next yr hahahaah

I think Father Time will force mos’ hand. 

 

4 hours ago, blue85gold said:

If Schoen is able to go that would be absolutely huge. He diced the Als for a few TDs this year already. 

I feel like this would be a distraction rostering. But it’s be insane if he was like 75% 

[TrueBlue4ever]

5 hours ago, Booch said:

maybe we do it next yr hahahaah

Yeah, maybe it will be an actual issue next year unlike the manufactured non-controversy some tried to sell as a problem this season. 

5 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Self imposed hard mode is just dumb. This team would’ve been much better this year with sensible roster use. Not even creative or daring. Just sensible. 

Serious question - what evidence is there that the roster moves actually cost us this year, and what proof is there that we made it so hard on ourselves or would have been much better if some fans’ preferred players were on the roster over what the club actually fielded?

Of our 4 losses, 2 were in OT, and 3 of the 4 were by 2, 3, and 6 points. And in those losses it’s a lot easier to find an on-field mistake that was the difference, rather than the fact that we did not have a certain person rostered as a back-up to a back-up in spot #45. The one blowout we had, well we just sent that team packing again in a dominant West Final, and IIRC the big worry was the age of our o-line after that game, not the “Haba vs Jackson” debate.

In our 14 wins, 11 were by double digits (same as the mighty Argos, BTW) and only 1 was by less than a TD. Our average margin of victory in those wins was 18 points. What was so hard about this year in the big picture?

This isn’t a Madden video game on easy mode where anything less than a 60 point win is a failure. This edition of the club, if they win it all next week, should go down as one of the best ever teams in franchise history. And even if we quibble about a certain roster move, it sure looks like based on where we stand today that the staff made all the right decisions in the end, and the “putrid roster management” story was largely overblown.

Convince me otherwise. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by TrueBlue4ever

[Nolby]

4 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Most birds can't either.

His ears would make a great home for a hermit crab

[JohnnyAbonny]

Big key (and the only thing that really worries me about this game) Buck better have his head on straight.  I don’t want to see Prukop lined up without his hand under the center’s ass. 

[Noeller]

Rewatching all modern Bombers GC wins over the course of this week, starting with 1984 tonight. Love love love Grey Cup week when the Bombers are in it!!

Edited November 15, 2023 by Noeller

[Geebrr]

Just now, Noeller said:

Rewatching all Bombers GC wins over the course of this week, starting with 1984 tonight. Love love love Grey Cup week when the Bombers are in it!!

If you were a Gapper fan you could watch them in half an afternoon. 
 

They are truly the worst franchise to ever exist 

[kelownabomberfan]

5 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Rewatching all Bombers GC wins over the course of this week, starting with 1984 tonight. Love love love Grey Cup week when the Bombers are in it!!

Mikawos scoop and run TD on the Brock fumble...caused by Tyrone Jones....ahhhh so sweet...

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by kelownabomberfan

[Noeller]

12 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

If you were a Gapper fan...

...my parents would have lost me and my sister to Child and Family Services when we were kids.... 

[TrueBlue4ever]

15 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Mikawos scoop and run TD on the Brock fumble...caused by Tyrone Jones....ahhhh so sweet...

 

Fun fact about that broadcast - it was shown on both CTV and CBC, and the broadcasts teams for each network split the duties. CTV’s Pat Marsden did the first half play-by-play and I think it was Leo Cahill on the colour, with CBC’s Don Wittman and Ron Lancaster taking over in the second half. 

[wbbfan]

51 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Yeah, maybe it will be an actual issue next year unlike the manufactured non-controversy some tried to sell as a problem this season. 

Serious question - what evidence is there that the roster moves actually cost us this year, and what proof is there that we made it so hard on ourselves or would have been much better if some fans’ preferred players were on the roster over what the club actually fielded?

Of our 4 losses, 2 were in OT, and 3 of the 4 were by 2, 3, and 6 points. And in those losses it’s a lot easier to find an on-field mistake that was the difference, rather than the fact that we did not have a certain person rostered as a back-up to a back-up in spot #45. The one blowout we had, well we just sent that team packing again in a dominant West Final, and IIRC the big worry was the age of our o-line after that game, not the “Haba vs Jackson” debate.

In our 14 wins, 11 were by double digits (same as the mighty Argos, BTW) and only 1 was by less than a TD. Our average margin of victory in those wins was 18 points. What was so hard about this year in the big picture?

This isn’t a Madden video game on easy mode where anything less than a 60 point win is a failure. This edition of the club, if they win it all next week, should go down as one of the best ever teams in franchise history. And even if we quibble about a certain roster move, it sure looks like based on where we stand today that the staff made all the right decisions in the end, and the “putrid roster management” story was largely overblown.

Convince me otherwise. 

The wall our front hit mid season with zero rotation while we wasted di spots on 5 or 6 snap guys alone is all the proof needed. 
 Cost isn’t paid in loses alone. I mean you’re talking “it’s not madden on easy” but do you consider your self to have greater x and o insight than that equivalent? 
 You can also look at Hallett going in and forcing us into a two s look earlier this year because we had no back up cover db. You can look at the fact we are now looking at a brand new wr to our system possibly starting because of our pr management. You can look at how many games we had dis who played 5 snaps or less. You can look at how other teams have done every thing to maximize their roster depth and how we’ve burned spots in general.

Look at how fox played in his game action vs guys like Schmekel, and Habba vs Bennett. Swap one of the dis wasted and do you think that makes us worse? You can’t completely weigh the loss, if we rotated this year and last year perhaps wj performs much more consistently like he did when we rotated previously. Maybe JJ wouldn’t get hurt. 
 What’s the weight of the blow out loss to bc at home? What’s the loss of a guy losing quality at the end of their career? 
 How many snaps have Augustine, Jackson, Eli, Dobson, gmc and bolo played this year in their rostered games? Having an extra cover db, pass rusher, interior run stopper etc indisputably makes us better. 
 

You’re trying to break down the season by the same madden standard you mentioned earlier. Games can’t be broken down to a lowest common denominator by a one dimensional number. You can win by 10 and have a piss poor performance. Say where you spend half the game getting slapped by edm to the point your starting qb gets knocked out. 
 

but then you can’t use logic to convince some one to change their mind and leave a position they took up with out logic. 
 You’ve argued this many times before and been given every point by multiple people. But it doesn’t fit being a staunch contrarian so you discard all those every time. 

[Booch]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Yeah, maybe it will be an actual issue next year unlike the manufactured non-controversy some tried to sell as a problem this season. 

Serious question - what evidence is there that the roster moves actually cost us this year, and what proof is there that we made it so hard on ourselves or would have been much better if some fans’ preferred players were on the roster over what the club actually fielded?

Of our 4 losses, 2 were in OT, and 3 of the 4 were by 2, 3, and 6 points. And in those losses it’s a lot easier to find an on-field mistake that was the difference, rather than the fact that we did not have a certain person rostered as a back-up to a back-up in spot #45. The one blowout we had, well we just sent that team packing again in a dominant West Final, and IIRC the big worry was the age of our o-line after that game, not the “Haba vs Jackson” debate.

In our 14 wins, 11 were by double digits (same as the mighty Argos, BTW) and only 1 was by less than a TD. Our average margin of victory in those wins was 18 points. What was so hard about this year in the big picture?

This isn’t a Madden video game on easy mode where anything less than a 60 point win is a failure. This edition of the club, if they win it all next week, should go down as one of the best ever teams in franchise history. And even if we quibble about a certain roster move, it sure looks like based on where we stand today that the staff made all the right decisions in the end, and the “putrid roster management” story was largely overblown.

Convince me otherwise. 

No sense explaining anything to you as you just eyeroll or argue...say we won in past...whatever....u can't see it's not optimal use of roster...DA's etc....and  will never get it...so why even ask just to retort as u do...u think it's great and that's totally fine and your choice...so look for a new argument somewhere now

 

14 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

The wall our front hit mid season with zero rotation while we wasted di spots on 5 or 6 snap guys alone is all the proof needed. 
 Cost isn’t paid in loses alone. I mean you’re talking “it’s not madden on easy” but do you consider your self to have greater x and o insight than that equivalent? 
 You can also look at Hallett going in and forcing us into a two s look earlier this year because we had no back up cover db. You can look at the fact we are now looking at a brand new wr to our system possibly starting because of our pr management. You can look at how many games we had dis who played 5 snaps or less. You can look at how other teams have done every thing to maximize their roster depth and how we’ve burned spots in general.

Look at how fox played in his game action vs guys like Schmekel, and Habba vs Bennett. Swap one of the dis wasted and do you think that makes us worse? You can’t completely weigh the loss, if we rotated this year and last year perhaps wj performs much more consistently like he did when we rotated previously. Maybe JJ wouldn’t get hurt. 
 What’s the weight of the blow out loss to bc at home? What’s the loss of a guy losing quality at the end of their career? 
 How many snaps have Augustine, Jackson, Eli, Dobson, gmc and bolo played this year in their rostered games? Having an extra cover db, pass rusher, interior run stopper etc indisputably makes us better. 
 

You’re trying to break down the season by the same madden standard you mentioned earlier. Games can’t be broken down to a lowest common denominator by a one dimensional number. You can win by 10 and have a piss poor performance. Say where you spend half the game getting slapped by edm to the point your starting qb gets knocked out. 
 

but then you can’t use logic to convince some one to change their mind and leave a position they took up with out logic. 
 You’ve argued this many times before and been given every point by multiple people. But it doesn’t fit being a staunch contrarian so you discard all those every time. 

Dont waste your breath on someone who looks at past success where this didn't happen and where wins this yr gloss over the roster misuse...he ...or she....not sure gender can't correlate how it hindered us...and yes had a hand in a few loses and also a few wins we were lucky to escape with

He is fine with adequate and not being outright dominant

[TrueBlue4ever]

If you don’t see this year as dominant and label it as merely adequate, I have to ask what your standard is. Identify what qualifies as dominant (like a past actual team, not some hypothetical nebulous answer like “a squad that imposes it’s will”) 

[Noeller]

6 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If you don’t see this year as dominant and label it as merely adequate, I have to ask what your standard is. Identify what qualifies as dominant (like a past actual team, not some hypothetical nebulous answer like “a squad that imposes it’s will”) 

It is very easy to see how this team could have been even better than it is. I don't love the constant complaining about it, but it is also impossible not to see what Booch and wbbfan are talking about. 

[Mike]

32 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If you don’t see this year as dominant and label it as merely adequate, I have to ask what your standard is. Identify what qualifies as dominant (like a past actual team, not some hypothetical nebulous answer like “a squad that imposes it’s will”) 

You’ll get it one day 

[kelownabomberfan]

TSN replaying the West Final tonight and in Zach's post game interview Claire Hanna said Zach is the first QB in CFL history to start 4 straight Grey Cups. Is that right?

I thought Kenny Ploen had that distinction but the Bombers had a blip in 1960 during that dynasty and missed one Cup appearance. 

[Noeller]

2 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

TSN replaying the West Final tonight and in Zach's post game interview Claire Hanna said Zach is the first QB in CFL history to start 4 straight Grey Cups. Is that right?

I thought Kenny Ploen had that distinction but the Bombers had a blip in 1960 during that dynasty and missed one Cup appearance. 

Been talking about for the past two days....

 

 

[kelownabomberfan]

3 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Been talking about for the past two days....

 

 

You've been talking about it? Should have told the rest of us lol...

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Noeller said:

Been talking about for the past two days....

 

 

I'm not going to go back pages to see if this subect was discussed just because you told KBF to do so. I know already & I'll answer KBF's question with a bit of background detail for him, you & everyone else,

Jim Van Pelt signed with the Bombers out of the University of Michigan. In 1958, he made the team as a rookie backup qb & played defensive back while Ploen was the starter. Midway during the 58 season, Ploen suffered an injury & Van Pelt took over. He played so well that Ploen couldn't get his starting qb job back. So he moved to the defensive backfield & played very well there. So well, that he had one interception in 1958 & another 10 the following season for 104 yards in 1959.  Ploen was named a CFL Western Conference All Star that season at DB even though he came back to play qb the rest of the way after Van Pelt's shoulder injury.

Van Pelt started the 1958 Grey Cup & Ploen subbed in for  some plays as well. So they both played the position in that championship game with Van Pelt getting the majority of the snaps. Van Pelt was also the Bomber placekicker. He kicked two field goals & 4 converts that game in a 35-28 win over the Ti Cats. 

In 1959, Van Pelt again was the starter but suffered a hand injury during the exhibition season. He had to wear a cast on his non throwing hand. Still, he didn't miss a snap. In late September of 59, Van Pelt suffered a separated shoulder which ended his season & unfortunately his career with the Bombers. He never played for us again. During the off season, in late 1959, Van Pelt was drafted into the US Air Force for a 3 year hitch. After suffering his separated shoulder, Ploen had taken over from Van Pelt & he never looked back as he became the starting qb for the Bombers until he retired after the 1967 season. In between, winning 2 more Grey Cup championships at qb & also a finalist in 1965.

Van Pelt completed his Air Force duties in late fall of 1962. He was a special guest of the Bombers at the Grey Cup in Toronto as they wined & dined he & his wife in order to convince them he should come back, They tried to get Van Pelt to sign a new contract for the 63 season with the Bombers but he turned down the offer to become a chartered accountant in Chicago where he lived until he passed away last year.

Who knows why he turned down the Bomber offer as ther CFL was paying as good or better than the NFL at the time.  Van Pelt showed no interest to play in the upstart AFL which began in 1960. However, salaries were beginning to rise as the new league was competing with the NFL & CFL for players. The Canadian dollar was on par with the US dollar back in those days so there were no implications with the exchange rate for American players going back to the US in the off season. Perhaps Van Pelt felt that the team belonged to Ken Ploen now after being away 3 years. Maybe he felt that he had lost his edge. He certainly lost his desire to play as he was ready to move on to other things than football. Whatever the case, he never came back. He settled into private life in the Chicago area. 

So KBF, Ploen never started 4 consecutive Grey Cups as a qb but he won 3 as a starter & played in 6 championships. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[bearpants]

5 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm not going to go back pages to see if this subect was discussed just because you told KBF to do so. I know already & I'll answer KBF's question with a bit of background detail for him, you & everyone else,

Jim Van Pelt signed with the Bombers out of the University of Michigan. In 1958, he made the team as a rookie backup qb & played defensive back while Ploen was the starter. Midway during the 58 season, Ploen suffered an injury & Van Pelt took over. He played so well that Ploen couldn't get his starting qb job back. So he moved to the defensive backfield & played very well there. So well, that he had one interception in 1958 & another 10 the following season for 104 yards in 1959.  Ploen was named a CFL Western Conference All Star that season at DB even though he came back to play qb the rest of the way after Van Pelt's shoulder injury.

Van Pelt started the 1958 Grey Cup & Ploen subbed in for  some plays as well. So they both played the position in that championship game with Van Pelt getting the majority of the snaps. Van Pelt was also the Bomber placekicker. He kicked two field goals & 4 converts that game in a 35-28 win over the Ti Cats. 

In 1959, Van Pelt again was the starter but suffered a hand injury during the exhibition season. He had to wear a cast on his non throwing hand. Still, he didn't miss a snap. In late September of 59, Van Pelt suffered a separated shoulder which ended his season & unfortunately his career with the Bombers. He never played for us again. During the off season, in late 1959, Van Pelt was drafted into the US Air Force for a 3 year hitch. After suffering his separated shoulder, Ploen had taken over from Van Pelt & he never looked back as he became the starting qb for the Bombers until he retired after the 1967 season. In between, winning 2 more Grey Cup championships at qb & also a finalist in 1965.

Van Pelt completed his Air Force duties in late fall of 1962. He was a special guest of the Bombers at the Grey Cup in Toronto as they wined & dined he & his wife in order to convince them he should come back, They tried to get Van Pelt to sign a new contract for the 63 season with the Bombers but he turned down the offer to become a chartered accountant in Chicago where he lived until he passed away last year.

Who knows why he turned down the Bomber offer as ther CFL was paying as good or better than the NFL at the time.  Van Pelt showed no interest to play in the upstart AFL which began in 1960. However, salaries were beginning to rise as the new league was competing with the NFL & CFL for players. The Canadian dollar was on par with the US dollar back in those days so there were no implications with the exchange rate for American players going back to the US in the off season. Perhaps Van Pelt felt that the team belonged to Ken Ploen now after being away 3 years. Maybe he felt that he had lost his edge. He certainly lost his desire to play as he was ready to move on to other things than football. Whatever the case, he never came back. He settled into private life in the Chicago area. 

So KBF, Ploen never started 4 consecutive Grey Cups as a qb but he won 3 as a starter & played in 6 championships. 

this was a great read, Thanks @SpeedFlex27.... the old school days were wild... imagine Dru Brown realizes he's not going to unseat Zach as the starter so he just goes and becomes an all-star DB... though I guess TSN thinks he plays there...

[bearpants]

I highly doubt the Bombers care much about this... but I got a kick out of the CFL writers splitting the prediction... I'm glad they did... please keep doubting the Bombers...

https://www.cfl.ca/2023/11/15/prediction-time-cfl-ca-writers-110th-grey-cup-picks/

the media is trying so hard to sell us on the Als being complete in all three phases.... I guess they're just completely ignored the offense for the past 2 months