Call it what you want … you need to move on from Collaros

[Jesse]

13 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The Bombers both O and D were very vanilla. Hardly any play action or backfield motion, no methodical stretching of the defence, and our D was just plain jane. It's as if we figured we could play an ultra low risk game and win. Kinda disrespected Montreal a bit in our game planning imo.

For sure....but for the coming season we need him still and if Brown in the heir apparent then decisions can be made during the season.

We had 3 receivers hobbling around out there not getting open. It's not all on Zac. Schoen could barely run his routes except in a straight line.

100%

[GCn20]

14 minutes ago, Booch said:

I'd say Rose off..hurt us big...Biggie on...Hurt us big....No legit end to spell of the Jeff's...Hurt us big...Jackson in lieu of Fox...whiom we saw was very disruptive in 2 games and would have been major fresh....hurt us big....thats roster mamagenent

No. I don't think Fox would have done anything more than the Jeffs, and I am not buying that the Jeff's weren't fresh either. Biggie and Schoen being on was a big mistake, no doubt about it. However, we got zero pressure on Cody, and it is mainly because we were just lining up 3 or 4 and trying to rush straight ahead. It was a very vanilla pass rush, and a very vanilla coverage scheme as well.

There were roster mistakes, but you are never going to convince me that a PR DT was the difference between us getting pressure or not and that loomed large over this game. Not just the 4th Q....the whole game....even when the Jeff's were fresh as a daisy. For some reason Hall took the tact that we will play man coverage, and straight rush because he did not believe Cody had it in him to beat us with his arm and we would capitalize on his inevitable mistakes. We play the scheme that Hall had last week for VA and CoFaj is road rash right now.

Edited November 20, 2023 by GCn20

[GCn20]

If we play clean ball we win that game. We did the exact thing that everyone knew was the only way Montreal could beat us. Zac needed to be better and so did our gameplan.

[Arnold_Palmer]

I would consider getting rid of the following, Collaros, Neufeld, have a talk about Bryant/Hardrick taking pay cuts, Jeffcoat, Thomas, Bighill, Rose, and Alexander. Now I’m not talking about getting rid of all those guys but there has to be some tough discussions and we have to get younger and cheaper, we have some younger guys looking for raises, and that will have to come at the expense of some of those players..

Edited November 20, 2023 by Arnold_Palmer

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

I would consider getting rid of the following, Collaros, Neufeld, have a talk about Bryant/Hardrick taking pay cuts, Jeffcoat, Thomas, Bighill, Rose, and Alexander. Now I’m not talking about getting rid of all those guys but there has to be some tough discussions and we have to get younger and cheaper, we have some younger guys looking for raises, and that will have to come at the expense of some of those players..

What worries me the most is Brady missing half the season trying the NFL. That could be very bad for us.

[bluto]

Outside looking in:

1) Clarify Walters' situation as the man in charge of the next evolution, ASAP.

2) 2 years remaining on 600k/yr is a spicy meatball. Particularly if being back in the GC next year or more particularly the following year when you host is the goal. I think you have to cut bait. We'll see.

3) Ruthlessness. This roster is overdue for some pruning. Seeing a few familiar names go can hurt. Time to be cruel-to-be-kind (in the right measure).

4) Not a disaster, but worth noting that being out-adjusted at HT in the GC is a bad trend. Evolution happens to coaching staffs too.

 

Tough beat, guys. Sucks to play your worst in the most important game of the season. Ask me how I know.

[17to85]

So the way I see it is Collaros made the OL look worse than it was. He took a sack last night by dancing around, he kept looking for a pass that wasn't there. perfect opportunity to tuck it and run and keep the D honest. He doesn't do that anymore. Teams are playing more patiently with him and he's running himself into trouble by not actually running forward. 

 

He's 35 and fragile from all his past injuries. For one of teh highest paid players in the league is this what we want from a guy? I think the time is probably right to go another direction. Brown showed a lot more ability to make things happen than Collaros did. I just know that if we lose a capable backup and stick with Collaros it could get ugly.  

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, bluto said:

Outside looking in:

1) Clarify Walters' situation as the man in charge of the next evolution, ASAP.

2) 2 years remaining on 600k/yr is a spicy meatball. Particularly if being back in the GC next year or more particularly the following year when you host is the goal. I think you have to cut bait. We'll see.

3) Ruthlessness. This roster is overdue for some pruning. Seeing a few familiar names go can hurt. Time to be cruel-to-be-kind (in the right measure).

4) Not a disaster, but worth noting that being out-adjusted at HT in the GC is a bad trend. Evolution happens to coaching staffs too.

 

Tough beat, guys. Sucks to play your worst in the most important game of the season. Ask me how I know.

I'll keep Zac over head case Kelly thanks. That is if he recovers from his phantom concussion next year in time to play. Likely that Dinwiddie protects his noggin against anyone over .500 anyway tho. 

[bluto]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So the way I see it is Collaros made the OL look worse than it was. He took a sack last night by dancing around, he kept looking for a pass that wasn't there. perfect opportunity to tuck it and run and keep the D honest. He doesn't do that anymore. Teams are playing more patiently with him and he's running himself into trouble by not actually running forward. 

 

He's 35 and fragile from all his past injuries. For one of teh highest paid players in the league is this what we want from a guy? I think the time is probably right to go another direction. Brown showed a lot more ability to make things happen than Collaros did. I just know that if we lose a capable backup and stick with Collaros it could get ugly.  

I kept asking my TV that all night, "What was he looking for there?"

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So the way I see it is Collaros made the OL look worse than it was. He took a sack last night by dancing around, he kept looking for a pass that wasn't there. perfect opportunity to tuck it and run and keep the D honest. He doesn't do that anymore. Teams are playing more patiently with him and he's running himself into trouble by not actually running forward. 

 

He's 35 and fragile from all his past injuries. For one of teh highest paid players in the league is this what we want from a guy? I think the time is probably right to go another direction. Brown showed a lot more ability to make things happen than Collaros did. I just know that if we lose a capable backup and stick with Collaros it could get ugly.  

I don't think there will be much outrage if we go with Zac next year. 

3 minutes ago, bluto said:

I kept asking my TV that all night, "What was he looking for there?"

He was looking for a receiver to work themselves open. Problem is 60% of our receiving corps could only run in a straight line. Zac didn't have a good game but our receivers were even worse. Lawler was doubled all night because they could.

Edited November 20, 2023 by GCn20

[17to85]

8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I don't think there will be much outrage if we go with Zac next year

No there won't... but what if he regresses again next year? then we've still got one of the highest paid players in the league who isn't performing like an MOP level player should and what do we do for a backup if Brown looks for opportunities elsewhere? Dude is 35 and has an injury history as long as my arm.... He has been sub par in 3 straight grey cups now.... it's well worth having this discussion. Collaros is not likely to get any better than he was 2 years ago and is quite frankly only likely to get worse. Fact is that Brown operated this offense as well as collaros did... could be a good opportunity to get cheaper at the position and get some better depth. Especially since Collaros would still hold great trade value around the league. 

[BaconNBigBlue]

I still find it hard to believe Zach had over 250 yards passing.  He seemed so ineffective to have produced that much!

 

[17to85]

he started the game pretty good, after he got sacked the first time I think the demons crept in. Guy does not do well when he's getting hit. He needs an absolute clean pocket these days to be an MOP type guy. 

[Goalie]

Keeping Favre another year only to let RODGERS walk would be dumb 

If I'm winnipeg I do everything I can to keep brown around, even if that means getting rid of Zach eventually 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Goalie

[Stickem]

.......When you are in the redzone and come away with three's, in a game of this magnitude, it will come back to haunt.....It appeared they wanted the Cup more than we did....Even though Zack had 250 passing yds. , it didn't result in tds., which we usually could have counted on in meaningful games....Was it all on Zack???no but the roster management has to be questioned....It finally bit us in the ass

[Jesse]

9 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Keeping Favre another year only to let RODGERS walk would be dumb 

If I'm winnipeg I do everything I can to keep brown around, even if that means getting rid of Zach eventually 

Unless you let him go and you end up left with [insert promising back-up who couldn't make the leap to starter].

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Stickem said:

.......When you are in the redzone and come away with three's, in a game of this magnitude, it will come back to haunt.....It appeared they wanted the Cup more than we did....Even though Zack had 250 passing yds. , it didn't result in tds., which we usually could have counted on in meaningful games....Was it all on Zack???no but the roster management has to be questioned....It finally bit us in the ass

Roster management is way down the list of things that bit us in the ass yesterday imo. We could have/should have won this game with the roster we dressed. Interceptions that snuffed out good drives, a bad BO fumble, no pressure on CoFaj, a weird decision to play man nearly all game, our coaches going ultra conservative/playing not to lose....these were far bigger factors.

Edited November 20, 2023 by GCn20

[Goalie]

2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Unless you let him go and you end up left with [insert promising back-up who couldn't make the leap to starter].

Zach is literally drew willy'd 

He's scared to get hit. 

When he does get hit,  he folds 

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Zach is literally drew willy'd 

He's scared to get hit. 

When he does get hit,  he folds 

Ok...that's not even remotely true. He had a bad game and hasn't performed well in the last 2 Grey Cups but he is not Willy'd.

16 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

he started the game pretty good, after he got sacked the first time I think the demons crept in. Guy does not do well when he's getting hit. He needs an absolute clean pocket these days to be an MOP type guy. 

No reason whatsoever that we couldn't have provided him with one a lot more often than we did. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by GCn20

[Eternal optimist]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

those comments right there...says it all...Thanks Osh....good god

Those comments cause not only short term pain (the loss last night) but longer term issues.

What message does that send to players that were told to sit when healthy (Rose, O'Leary-Orange)

[Booch]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

So the way I see it is Collaros made the OL look worse than it was. He took a sack last night by dancing around, he kept looking for a pass that wasn't there. perfect opportunity to tuck it and run and keep the D honest. He doesn't do that anymore. Teams are playing more patiently with him and he's running himself into trouble by not actually running forward. 

 

He's 35 and fragile from all his past injuries. For one of teh highest paid players in the league is this what we want from a guy? I think the time is probably right to go another direction. Brown showed a lot more ability to make things happen than Collaros did. I just know that if we lose a capable backup and stick with Collaros it could get ugly.  

There was nothing wrong with the oline this yr really.....ZC was more an issue behind it than anything...why...thats the question...is he physically wearing down?...Is he not seeing things fast enough now and processing it how he used to?...Is he become too focused on the big play?......it's something, but it also came right out of nowhere

That being said....Eli needs to be the centre next yr...he is better...plain and simple, and also signed thru 2025...he is the future and the now...Not Kolo.....Dobson needs to play but is at at the expense of Gray...Or Neuf?...Neuf arguably was our best guy all yr, and back to back all-star selections kind of validate that.

I think we should see if Dobson can be that guard, and we keep Gray as the 6th/extra guy, as he can back up at all positions....as well as use him in that role Jackson had...He did it several games when we didnt dress Jackson, and thats his job and role as a player and what he has done his whole football career...move bodies and block, and he's more than athletic enough...he's prob our most consistent lineman downfield on runs next to Yosh...banging bodies and created havoc....plus he irritates the heck out of defensive guys....If we choose to keep rostering 7 oline guys...which I think can be a bit excessive then I'd like to see a young guy be developed....

D-line as well....nothing wrong with the Jeff's and neither is close to being aged out...just look around the league for last decade or so...an End can be very effective well into 30]s with...and this is key...proper and adequate rotation...But we also need a monster inside again to really make it work....and have adequate rotation there...like when we rolled Nevis and Stove with the Jeffs, and Hansen and Kongbo and Thomas when he was fairly effective....3 yrs ago...he should have been sent packing last yr already and no way in hell he should be back next yr

[Noeller]

it's wild to me that there are people in the league who think Kola is a great C, and that leads me to believe we could actually get assets for something that most of us believe is the most replaceable player on the OL, with Eli ready to be so much better next year. 

[17to85]

52 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Ok...that's not even remotely true. He had a bad game and hasn't performed well in the last 2 Grey Cups but he is not Willy'd.

If not for Brady O dragging the offense along this year there would be a LOT more talk about collaros problems this year.

[MOBomberFan]

9 minutes ago, Noeller said:

it's wild to me that there are people in the league who think Kola is a great C, and that leads me to believe we could actually get assets for something that most of us believe is the most replaceable player on the OL, with Eli ready to be so much better next year. 

Kola was only signed through '23 last I saw, not sure what assets we could get for a pending FA. I'd be shocked to see the Bombers bring him back though, Eli is clearly the plan for the future with time on his contract

I've defended Kola plenty, imo he's not as bad as he's often accused of being around here (and pretty much only here), but last night his size was exposed, a big body like Eli probably doesn't get muscled around like and we probably don't give up that first sack.

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Roster management is way down the list of things that bit us in the ass yesterday imo. We could have/should have won this game with the roster we dressed. Interceptions that snuffed out good drives, a bad BO fumble, no pressure on CoFaj, a weird decision to play man nearly all game, our coaches going ultra conservative/playing not to lose....these were far bigger factors.

Roster management is down on the list? We played Biggie and he clearly wasn't able to play. We could have dressed Rose in his place. Then when Parker got hurt, he goes in for him and maybe they don't get a TD to start the second half. Rose also could have replaced Houston. We played Schoen who was not healthy. Ambles likely helps contribute more. We used Jackson who is useless. Imagine having Fox or Habba instead? Related to this, with the extra DL on, you could sit Bennett and place Kelly who is excellent on kick coverage.