Call it what you want … you need to move on from Collaros

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I agree. 3 red zone trips for 0 points was not great for our ability to win.

My counter point to that is he still led the league in just about every category and that is with his running back getting a ton of touches unlike other QBs who were making 40 pass attempts a game.

I love Brown but he has 2 games under his belt. I'm not throwing my league leading 2xMOP QB away because his understudy showed well in a very small sample size.

Agreed. If Dru Brown is the best option for the future, he has to earn that. Too many coaches have lost games and jobs because of misplaced loyalty.

[Doublezero]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I love Brown but he has 2 games under his belt. I'm not throwing my league leading 2xMOP QB away because his understudy showed well in a very small sample size.

Could just as easily argue that you don't know what you're going to get with Collaros anymore, who is looking more and more like BLM or Calvillo at the end of their careers. Meantime Dru Brown threw for just under 1000 yards this past season and had the highest overall QB efficiency rating of all the QBs in the CFL - by far. He had a higher pass completion percentage than Collaros - and was second only to Fajardo who thows for an average of 5 yards while Brown threw for average of 11 yards - again, highest in the CFL. Based on numbers alone the guy, who has been mentored here for 3 years, is an outstanding prospect. And when you actually watch him vs Collaros, Brown has better vision, better accuracy, better pocket presence and throwing velocity. It would be irresponsible to let a guy like that get away ... 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Doublezero

[Jesse]

4 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

Could just as easily argue that you don't know what you're going to get with Collaros anymore, who is looking more and more like BLM or Calvillo at the end of their careers. Meantime Dru Brown threw for just under 1000 yards this past season and had the highest overall QB efficiency rating of all the QBs in the CFL - by far. He had a higher pass completion percentage than Collaros - and was second only to Fajardo who thows for an average of 5 yards while Brown threw for average of 11 yards - again, highest in the CFL. Based on numbers alone the guy, who has been mentored here for 3 years, is an outstanding prospect. And when you actually watch him vs Collaros, Brown has better vision, better accuracy, better pocket presence and throwing velocity. It would be irresponsible to let a guy like that get away ... 

You can't argue that at all with any evidence. 

[Mark H.]

5 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

Could just as easily argue that you don't know what you're going to get with Collaros anymore, who is looking more and more like BLM or Calvillo at the end of their careers. 

I would take that. Calvillo was solid with an appropriate game plan for his age/skill set

[JuranBoldenRules]

12 minutes ago, Jesse said:

You can't argue that at all with any evidence. 

You can't argue anything in the future of any quarterback at all with any evidence.

21 hours ago, BBlink said:

I'm going to make some excuses for the average play of Collaros in the Grey Cup.

1. We have been a very balanced offensive team...especially in the two years that we had Andrew Harris here. We were run heavy. We basically employ receivers that are run blockers first.

2. We know we can run and running in the playoffs is the way to go

3. 2022 Collaros was playing hurt

4. 2023 our entire receiving core minus Lawler and Woli were hurt

It just goes to show you that it isn't the best team that wins the Grey Cup...it's the hottest/healthiest.

Healthy Collaros and Schoen has been our bread and butter for passing stats the last two years. We haven't had that in both our losses.

That said, has Collaros been stellar, even given the excuses? I'd say no. His underthrows in this last Grey Cup were brutal. But are we making a mountain out of a mole hill? I think so.

Depth is important.  Using the whole roster is important for sure.  The past two years it's been kind of a "these are our day 1 guys" and we'll only deviate from this group if a limb is amputated.

Montreal dominated the playoffs with a DB crew they basically built during the season, much like our team built a DB crew in 2019.

We helped them significantly by playing 3 receivers who basically couldn't move.

[Jesse]

2 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You can't argue anything in the future of any quarterback at all with any evidence.

He was arguing the past.

He said 2023 Zach looked like late career BLM/Calvillio (although I don't think Calvillio really ended on a bad note - can't quite remember off hand). BLM is hot garbage. Zach was first or second in the league in every relevant category. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

7 minutes ago, Jesse said:

He was arguing the past.

He said 2023 Zach looked like late career BLM/Calvillio (although I don't think Calvillio really ended on a bad note - can't quite remember off hand). BLM is hot garbage. Zach was first or second in the league in every relevant category. 

Argument is rooted in 2024.  Uncertainty vs known commodity with the point being the known commodity is potentially turning a bit of a wildcard week by week.

[Doublezero]

29 minutes ago, Jesse said:

You can't argue that at all with any evidence. 

Let's project current stats into the future, just for fun. In the same offence, Brown in fact threw 20% as many passes as Collaros in 2023. Based on Collaros's 15 picks, running the same offence, you'd expect Brown to throw 3 picks. But he didn't, he threw 0 interceptions. Meanwhile Collaros threw 33 touchdown passes. Brown threw 9 TD passes. If you extrapolate that based on equal playing time Brown would have thrown 45 touchdowns - far more than any QB in the CFL. The other thing is that Brown has a much quicker release than Collaros, that's a big part of his success.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Doublezero

[Fatty Liver]

14 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You can't argue anything in the future of any quarterback at all with any evidence.

Depth is important.  Using the whole roster is important for sure.  The past two years it's been kind of a "these are our day 1 guys" and we'll only deviate from this group if a limb is amputated.

Montreal dominated the playoffs with a DB crew they basically built during the season, much like our team built a DB crew in 2019.

We helped them significantly by playing 3 receivers who basically couldn't move.

 

Comes right back to roster management and why they choose to make do waiting for players to regain health, instead of using temp. replacements.  It could be a money issue with a tight bottom line.

[Jesse]

7 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

Let's project current stats into the future, just for fun. In the same offence, Brown threw 20% as many passes as Collaros in 2023. Based on Collaros's 15 picks, running the same offence, you'd expect Brown to throw 3 picks. But he didn't, he threw 0 interceptions. Meanwhile Collaros threw 33 touchdowns. Brown threw 9. And if you extrapolate that based on playing time Brown would have thrown 45 touchdowns. The other thing is that Brown has a much quicker release than Collaros, that's a big part of his success.

I'm sorry. But that's nonsense and not worth talking about. 

[wbbfan]

So this is gonna be the whole off season discussion eh? 🤮

[blue85gold]

28 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You can't argue anything in the future of any quarterback at all with any evidence.

Depth is important.  Using the whole roster is important for sure.  The past two years it's been kind of a "these are our day 1 guys" and we'll only deviate from this group if a limb is amputated.

Montreal dominated the playoffs with a DB crew they basically built during the season, much like our team built a DB crew in 2019.

We helped them significantly by playing 3 receivers who basically couldn't move.

It's not surprising Zach didn't have a huge game with how injured the receivers were. 

He was fairly efficient the whole game with only 4 incompletions. Offensive plan didn't seem to call for any attacking plays down field. 

[Jesse]

13 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

So this is gonna be the whole off season discussion eh? 🤮

FA will come eventually. 

[17to85]

I saw some very big backwards steps from collaros this season and he's at an age where that is concerning. Then you consider his salary and the impact that has had on the teams depth.... 

It's a conversation I don't expect the team to have but feel they should. 

What happens if we lose brown and collaros regressed more?

[Jesse]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

I saw some very big backwards steps from collaros this season and he's at an age where that is concerning. Then you consider his salary and the impact that has had on the teams depth.... 

It's a conversation I don't expect the team to have but feel they should. 

What happens if we lose brown and collaros regressed more?

Same thing (but worse) if we lose Collaros and Brown is hot garbage as a starter

[17to85]

It's a risk but we saw brown execute thus offense as effectively as collaros (maybe more). Less risky than brown going somewhere without the same pieces.

 

[Bigblue204]

I'm glad my job doesn't depend on making the right choice lol

[Jesse]

It's funny, because for my entire Blue Bomber fandom, I've always been in favour of the young, up and comer. I'd be searching old scouting reports and stats for Alex Brink and Joey Elliott trying to find ways to convince myself that they could be developed into the guy, or looking at other teams back-ups like a young Collaros or Bo Levi and want us to trade for them.

But now that we have the guy that's led us to Grey Cups, I don't want to let him go, even if it means losing the potential.

It would have been really nice if this part of Brown's career arc lined up with Zach's eventual retirement, but it didn't. So good luck Dru, maybe we'll see you in FA in two years. 

[Brandon]

Wally Buono would cut Zach and start Brown

[Doublezero]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

I would take that. Calvillo was solid with an appropriate game plan for his age/skill set

I would not want Zach's 2024 season to look like Calvillo's final year in Montreal. Even before his career-ending concussion 7 games in, Calvillo's production dropped off considerably in that final year. It was hard to watch such a great QB in decline. My argument in favour of going with Brown over Collaros is simply this: Collaros has always been a high risk - high reward quarterback. He makes throws other QBs would not/could not make. When he's on - it's great. When it's not, well, ask Hammy, Toronto and Sask why they parted ways with him. As QBs get older, and Collaros will be 36 next year, that style of play gives way to a far more a conservative approach. That is the trajectory. I saw the movie Napoleon last night. Same deal; high risk - high reward. Until the strategy exhausts itself and you end up defeated, injured, disgraced and in exile.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Doublezero

[17to85]

42 minutes ago, Jesse said:

It's funny, because for my entire Blue Bomber fandom, I've always been in favour of the young, up and comer. I'd be searching old scouting reports and stats for Alex Brink and Joey Elliott trying to find ways to convince myself that they could be developed into the guy, or looking at other teams back-ups like a young Collaros or Bo Levi and want us to trade for them.

But now that we have the guy that's led us to Grey Cups, I don't want to let him go, even if it means losing the potential.

It would have been really nice if this part of Brown's career arc lined up with Zach's eventual retirement, but it didn't. So good luck Dru, maybe we'll see you in FA in two years. 

That is the big part to me... collaros they are going for 2 more good years out-of... but then what? 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

If Brown gets an offer of $300k, he's gone.  Zach is the face of the franchise, none of O'Shea, Miller or Walters is going to think it's time to move on, they may consider it after 2025, but not before.

And this is why I am very concerned with the 2025 GC...

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

I saw some very big backwards steps from collaros this season and he's at an age where that is concerning. Then you consider his salary and the impact that has had on the teams depth.... 

It's a conversation I don't expect the team to have but feel they should. 

What happens if we lose brown and collaros regressed more?

We roll with poopcup?

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

44 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Wally Buono would cut Zach and start Brown

Wally Buono Didn't get his teams to 4 grey cups in a row.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Doublezero said:

 end up defeated, injured, disgraced and in exile.

So... you think Collaros ends up in Sask again?

 

 

 

😆

Edited November 24, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[17to85]

6 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Wally Buono Didn't get his teams to 4 grey cups in a row.

We got to those cups by winning a few hands in a row against father time, but that dude is unbeaten. At some point you gotta just walk away.