Call it what you want … you need to move on from Collaros

[Noeller]

Just now, GCn20 said:

It's an issue. Whether it is a major one is very highly debateable.

Could we have? Explain what makes you think any one of them would have made a lick of a difference.

I'm not trying to be mean, but how do you not understand?? One of the biggest reasons gave up the game winning TD is because everyone along the line was absolutely gassed, and we needed another body in the secondary after Parker got dinged on specials. There's several examples of why we needed more bodies on the field, especially on defense. 

[blue85gold]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It's an issue. Whether it is a major one is very highly debateable.

Could we have? Explain what makes you think any one of them would have made a lick of a difference.

Parker got hurt in the game and missed a series. Als scored on the series on a play where the Bomber's D got confused about who should have been where. If Rose was on, he slots in for Parker, no confusion.

[Jesse]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It's an issue. Whether it is a major one is very highly debateable.

Could we have? Explain what makes you think any one of them would have made a lick of a difference.

We got killed because out entire receiving core was limping.

I'd like to see Eli at centre next year and a solid DE rotational piece. Otherwise, run it back as much as possible. 

Just now, blue85gold said:

Parker got hurt in the game and missed a series. Als scored on the series on a play where the Bomber's D got confused about who should have been where. If Rose was on, he slots in for Parker, no confusion.

But that has nothing to do with an older player who we should move on from, which is what we're talking about. 

[Booch]

Rose's play overall was better than Houston's....and yeah the Jeff's could have used some rotational help and it would have been very beneficial.

Fox alone would have had a presence in the middle and a push that woud have allowed just that bit of needed heat that would have took the Faj's quick timing plays and made them hard to execute.

Also I don't think Houston can play up on line and have the skill/experience to disrupt quick passing, let alone consistently tackle..Rose can...also i highly doubt he would have got roasted by that winning td...he has seen that play hundreds of times and would have recognized it immediately, and that would have been difference in breaking it up...if not stepping in front of it...

Coaches and players have said...Rose is the calming influence out there and basically another coach...he would have been a huge factor all game over Houston...Blinded by the shiny pics our Coach was

[wbbfan]

Just now, Booch said:

Rose's play overall was better than Houston's....and yeah the Jeff's could have used some rotational help and it would have been very beneficial.

Fox alone would have had a presence in the middle and a push that woud have allowed just that bit of needed heat that would have took the Faj's quick timing plays and made them hard to execute.

Also I don't think Houston can play up on line and have the skill/experience to disrupt quick passing, let alone consistently tackle..Rose can...also i highly doubt he would have got roasted by that winning td...he has seen that play hundreds of times and would have recognized it immediately, and that would have been difference in breaking it up...if not stepping in front of it...

Coaches and players have said...Rose is the calming influence out there and basically another coach...he would have been a huge factor all game over Houston...Blinded by the shiny pics our Coach was

I would get rid of a lot of dbs tbh. Parker, Nichols, holm and Kramdi. And in an ideal situation both Parker and Kramdi would have to come in a take a starting job from some one. 
 Even the back up nis, I like to exhume and the Halley’s. But imo you can’t carry 3 ni dbs who can’t man up. Not when you carry 7 lbers especially. A guy like rose/ba is good for culture and continuity. But I don’t think we can rely on either any more. 
 Luckily you can rebuild a secondary quickly.

I think some one is likely to over pay Houston and take him off our hands. I like the guy as a person and pull for him but he’s not what we need.  

[Booch]

1 minute ago, Jesse said:

We got killed because out entire receiving core was limping.

I'd like to see Eli at centre next year and a solid DE rotational piece. Otherwise, run it back as much as possible. 

But that has nothing to do with an older player who we should move on from, which is what we're talking about. 

we need to insert Eli...Dobson, and let Gray be the 6th....Holm to safety and we need physical/man to man type HB/CB's to replace him and compete against incumbents at corner...Need to move on from Biggie as a starter, but a role player if cap allows. Get Ford signed and have him play SAM...and if roster allows it have BA as a DA and he can slot in all over the defence back 8...save for MLB...and make either Bennett or Kongbo our FA priority

Jackson cannot eat up a valuable DA spot....and if we have a stud to go with the Jeff's that more than adequate..that be exceptional...Need a dominant nose....and this draft year after 1st pick draft guys with ability to take on more a role, and sign/trade/draft a Canadian punter and have 2 Globals to be used in rotation and on teams.

I totally fine with offence if all the pieces are back, but competition needs to be brought, and ZC needs to be on a short leash and if he sucking...pulled even if for just a few series to see what he might not be seeing while behind center...

That isnt much a turn over and would allow us to run it back with a solid amount of the core guys who are still top notch

[SpeedFlex27]

16 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Not so says thr media.

Yes, that news broke after I said that. Listen, I don't mind being wrong about something like that. 

[Jesse]

6 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I would get rid of a lot of dbs tbh. Parker, Nichols, holm and Kramdi. And in an ideal situation both Parker and Kramdi would have to come in a take a starting job from some one. 
 Even the back up nis, I like to exhume and the Halley’s. But imo you can’t carry 3 ni dbs who can’t man up. Not when you carry 7 lbers especially. A guy like rose/ba is good for culture and continuity. But I don’t think we can rely on either any more. 
 Luckily you can rebuild a secondary quickly.

I think some one is likely to over pay Houston and take him off our hands. I like the guy as a person and pull for him but he’s not what we need.  

Just dump the secondary that led the league in passing defence. I don't see the same things you're seeing.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Just dump the secondary that led the league in passing defence. I don't see the same things you're seeing.

Parker's not a corner/db I'd get rid of. 

[Goalie]

Holm Nichols and Parker are all fine. 

[wbbfan]

12 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Just dump the secondary that led the league in passing defence. I don't see the same things you're seeing.

 You’re confusing correlation with causation. The personnel in our secondary is not why we lead the league in pass D. Our offensive domination especially in top and td%, our pass rush/run stop and our bend but don’t break game plan caused that. Teams just didn’t have the time/attempts to drive the field repeatedly. 

 The secondary tackling was beyond pitiful, recovery poor from most dbs, Houston was gambling and getting burned frequently. 

14 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Parker's not a corner/db I'd get rid of. 

Parker Nichols holm and Kramdi should stay. Though not automatically all in starting spots. 

Just now, Goalie said:

Holm Nichols and Parker are all fine. 

Kramdi is valuable too. He’s probably best as the reserve db/rotational guy. Though he could take a step forward next year. He puts him self in position to make a lot of plays, he just needs to get better at finishing and being consistent. Having that in a ni is huge. Vs having 3 ni dbs who can’t cover a guy at all. 

[Booch]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

 You’re confusing correlation with causation. The personnel in our secondary is not why we lead the league in pass D. Our offensive domination especially in top and td%, our pass rush/run stop and our bend but don’t break game plan caused that. Teams just didn’t have the time/attempts to drive the field repeatedly. 

 The secondary tackling was beyond pitiful, recovery poor from most dbs, Houston was gambling and getting burned frequently. 

Parker Nichols holm and Kramdi should stay. Though not automatically all in starting spots. 

Kramdi is valuable too. He’s probably best as the reserve db/rotational guy. Though he could take a step forward next year. He puts him self in position to make a lot of plays, he just needs to get better at finishing and being consistent. Having that in a ni is huge. Vs having 3 ni dbs who can’t cover a guy at all. 

Nichols....Holm...Parker..Rose..BA and Lawrence should all be brought back to compete....but have to be heads and shoulders above any new hungry guy....jobs need to be actually earned and then maintained after earned...or its see ya later....especially from an incumbent who has already shown streaky play, and questionable skills.

To be honest we should allow Houston to go to free agency...he had some picks ya...but by far was the worst tackling DB we had, gambled way too much for the picks to actually be meaningful in the whole body of work and in all honesty we can fill that role with an entry level guy and get equal if not better all round production.

We need to search out and roster db's with true cover skills and physical presence.......cause any DB can play that soft let em eat us alive underneath blanket coverage...but when rubber hits the road we have suffered with guys who can't switch the game up when it's required.

I'd hope Ford is extended/resigned to keep him here and give him the SAM position...Kramdi can be that ST captain and solid in game backup if needed, but he has some flaws....gets confused with lots of motion around him and his tackling is a lil suspect. He also turns 27 in December...so who even knows if he has already peaked. And we can go with just that one spot as a Canadian on defense, so we could beef up the front 7 quite nicely and have adequate Canadian backup with Lawson...Bennett if we land him,  which should be a no brainer to come back home...and play with 2 former teammates.

 

 

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

To be honest we should allow Houston to go to free agency..

someone is going to WILDLY overpay for those stats, and I'm praying it's not us....

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

someone is going to WILDLY overpay for those stats, and I'm praying it's not us....

But the fact they put him in for the Grey Cup says to me they value him...

[Booch]

Just now, 17to85 said:

But the fact they put him in for the Grey Cup says to me they value him...

was the ol Manfred Mann blinded by the light deal....shiny stats glossed over repeatedly being burned for long td's and big plays at wrong time.....all that was...I work with DB's a lot in camps....and Houston by far had the worst overall package of skills and fluidity on the team....Parker prob had the best, along with Nichols, and oddly the kid we cut partway into the season ADS....

[Fatty Liver]

24 minutes ago, Booch said:

Nichols....Holm...Parker..Rose..BA and Lawrence should all be brought back to compete....but have to be heads and shoulders above any new hungry guy....jobs need to be actually earned and then maintained after earned...or its see ya later....especially from an incumbent who has already shown streaky play, and questionable skills.

To be honest we should allow Houston to go to free agency...he had some picks ya...but by far was the worst tackling DB we had, gambled way too much for the picks to actually be meaningful in the whole body of work and in all honesty we can fill that role with an entry level guy and get equal if not better all round production.

We need to search out and roster db's with true cover skills and physical presence.......cause any DB can play that soft let em eat us alive underneath blanket coverage...but when rubber hits the road we have suffered with guys who can't switch the game up when it's required.

I'd hope Ford is extended/resigned to keep him here and give him the SAM position...Kramdi can be that ST captain and solid in game backup if needed, but he has some flaws....gets confused with lots of motion around him and his tackling is a lil suspect. He also turns 27 in December...so who even knows if he has already peaked. And we can go with just that one spot as a Canadian on defense, so we could beef up the front 7 quite nicely and have adequate Canadian backup with Lawson...Bennett if we land him,  which should be a no brainer to come back home...and play with 2 former teammates.

You're giving Ford Kramdi's job based on the one game of pro football he's played in his career?

[Booch]

13 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

You're giving Ford Kramdi's job based on the one game of pro football he's played in his career?

nope...thats not it at all

[Super Duper Negatron]

19 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

You're giving Ford Kramdi's job based on the one game of pro football he's played in his career?

I'd say more based on the 38 Kramdi has played.

[wbbfan]

57 minutes ago, Booch said:

Nichols....Holm...Parker..Rose..BA and Lawrence should all be brought back to compete....but have to be heads and shoulders above any new hungry guy....jobs need to be actually earned and then maintained after earned...or its see ya later....especially from an incumbent who has already shown streaky play, and questionable skills.

To be honest we should allow Houston to go to free agency...he had some picks ya...but by far was the worst tackling DB we had, gambled way too much for the picks to actually be meaningful in the whole body of work and in all honesty we can fill that role with an entry level guy and get equal if not better all round production.

We need to search out and roster db's with true cover skills and physical presence.......cause any DB can play that soft let em eat us alive underneath blanket coverage...but when rubber hits the road we have suffered with guys who can't switch the game up when it's required.

I'd hope Ford is extended/resigned to keep him here and give him the SAM position...Kramdi can be that ST captain and solid in game backup if needed, but he has some flaws....gets confused with lots of motion around him and his tackling is a lil suspect. He also turns 27 in December...so who even knows if he has already peaked. And we can go with just that one spot as a Canadian on defense, so we could beef up the front 7 quite nicely and have adequate Canadian backup with Lawson...Bennett if we land him,  which should be a no brainer to come back home...and play with 2 former teammates.

 

 

I feel like maybe Lawrence played through some bad injury or some thing this year. He looked a lot better even in pre season. So I’m good with him coming back. 
 Ba and rose, I wouldn’t give mos a crutch. Both are still players with use left. But both shouldn’t be starters on a contender any more. 
 But maybe mos will pull the trigger if they are out performed in pre season/ camp. He did leave rose off the gc roster. 
 

100%. Especially in the system we play we need guys who can be close, make tackles and make WRs pay a physical toll. If jy takes over this year I think that’d help too. 
 We lost the last few key nfl cut free agents we had. We really need ford back to bolster our ni talent. He’d be huge, I could easily see him taking a starting job and running with it this year. Which with Kramdi as back up works perfectly. 
 

I don’t think Sam is a great spot to go ni at today. The modern bigger Sam’s are becoming a key position with covering run fits and being able to cover slots man up if needed. 

[GCn20]

5 hours ago, Booch said:

thing is a lot of those guys were young...went to NFL...(Alford...Ford..Kongbo..Desjarlais)...or went and signed back elsewhere...or guys who got injured (Maston...Taylor) so that was not done purposefully...had no choice.

In last 2.....3 years what player did we move on from and replaced with a younger...better player who lost his job in TC?....I can think of.........none

 

He said none of the guys in 30+ range showed signs/reasons to be replaced....sure he said changes, but those will be the ones out of his control...NFL opp....Can't afford...but part of that can't afford will be holding on to higher priced vets who really have no place here now contribution wise as a starter, or are teams only guys....twist it all you wnt...but he refuses to accept the idea of being a Bouno..Murphy...Mathews...and will fall on his sword like a Ritchie...and thats a huge Osh flaw...for all his good traits...he has a real bad not good trait

He never said none of the 30+ guys needed to be replaced unless I listened to an edited version. I very clearly heard him indicate that they would evaluate the roster and go from there. He was asked if he would try talk any guys out of retiring and he stated he might...but that doesn't mean every guy 30+. He may just have been referring to Neuf or Stan.

Edited November 29, 2023 by GCn20

[GCn20]

Man some of this discussion ìs great football convo and some of it is a bit of a reach. 

We got guys saying Zac is declining and needs replacing while others are saying our secondary is overrated because our offence led by Zac was so dominant they never saw the field. Just extreme takes everywhere that contradict. I guess some are still really smarting from the loss.

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Man some of this discussion ìs great football convo and some of it is a bit of a reach. 

We got guys saying Zac is declining and needs replacing while others are saying our secondary is overrated because our offence led by Zac was so dominant they never saw the field. Just extreme takes everywhere that contradict. I guess some are still really smarting from the loss.

No one said the offence wasn’t good in the regular season, and it was the total offence you know with the real mop Brady. Idk how you manage to not understand that. 

[JohnnyAbonny]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

 

100%. Especially in the system we play we need guys who can be close, make tackles and make WRs pay a physical toll. If jy takes over this year I think that’d help too
 

I don’t think Sam is a great spot to go ni at today. The modern bigger Sam’s are becoming a key position with covering run fits and being able to cover slots man up if needed. 

The last 5 years or so the SAM spot is cycling back to a true hybrid. Closer to what the SS is in the NFL. 
 

Early 2010’s it was essentially a 3rd HB.  Guys like say a Clint Kent would come up and tackle, but you’d see the dimes covering the SB’s deep a lot more. 

Can’t just stick any good DB there anymore. That spot needs some real aggression and tacking skills. Gotta be able to come down hard on screens and flat routes, and strong enough to tackle bigger RB’s consistently. 

[Booch]

40 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

The last 5 years or so the SAM spot is cycling back to a true hybrid. Closer to what the SS is in the NFL. 
 

Early 2010’s it was essentially a 3rd HB.  Guys like say a Clint Kent would come up and tackle, but you’d see the dimes covering the SB’s deep a lot more. 

Can’t just stick any good DB there anymore. That spot needs some real aggression and tacking skills. Gotta be able to come down hard on screens and flat routes, and strong enough to tackle bigger RB’s consistently. 

Thats why I think Cole would be ideal there...he can come down and brig the boom, and he can also run and cover guys doing screens and crossers, and is probably one of our best sideline to sideline guys, and part of reason why I would like for us not to go Canadian there, but if we did, Ford would be better suited than Kramdi as he has a way better skill-set for it.

[JohnnyAbonny]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

Thats why I think Cole would be ideal there...he can come down and brig the boom, and he can also run and cover guys doing screens and crossers, and is probably one of our best sideline to sideline guys, and part of reason why I would like for us not to go Canadian there, but if we did, Ford would be better suited than Kramdi as he has a way better skill-set for it.

I think Cole would be perfect. Parker has the skill set for it too, albeit a little undersized. He plays way above his weight though.