Call it what you want … you need to move on from Collaros

[Fatty Liver]

47 minutes ago, Deiter Fan said:

Interesting point. We are always impressed when a player owns up to a poor performance and takes responsibility...and we bristle when they instead throw others under bus in defence of themselves.

I am just now trying to recall MOS ever saying, "Yeah I shat the bed on that one. It was a bad decision."

I've heard things like, "hindsight is 20/20"...or, "at the time it seemed like the right call"...but I'm not sure I have ever seen him fall on his sword and admitting he f'd up.  

 

"A man that can't change his mind can't change anything"

No, but O'Shea can still beat up anyone that chooses to disagree with him.

"Darren, can you please shut off the camera and lock all the doors, it's donnybrook time."

[HardCoreBlue]

9 hours ago, bluto said:

Unpopular take:

Trashing Fajardo is a very bad look right now.

He came in as a massive underdog. Rallied his team around him in classic "us against the world and F them anyway because they all hate us" fashion. He went 81%, 290 3&1. With everything on the line, he rushed 13 yards on 2nd and a mile. On 3rd and 5 he went for 31 and followed that with a GC winning score for 19 yards on the next play.

 

Bash him all you want, but you can never say that he didn't execute the epic dream of any kid who ever picks up a football to the letter.

Thank you so much for helping us relive those specific moments that crushed our collective Blue and Gold souls to help serve as a reminder delivered from an Argo fan posting on a Bomber site that we, though probably unpopular but needed, should appreciate what CF accomplished because it's every kids dream who picks up a football. 

 

[wbbfan]

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Wrong.

We should d been up by more. Should been up by 21 or more. 
 

 

[kelownabomberfan]

BLUE NOTES: Bighill and Schoen say it was right decision for them to play in Grey Cup ... Bighill says he was 'covering up' on Als' touchdown ... Brown ready to be starting QB (msn.com)

[GCn20]

10 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Might not have been the wisest decision to cut Agudosi a month before the playoffs if they weren't confident his replacements were capable of stepping in when needed.  The more I think about this "name on the cup issue" the more I believe O'Shea used it as a factor in determining his game time roster.

Just now, GCn20 said:

10 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Might not have been the wisest decision to cut Agudosi a month before the playoffs if they weren't confident his replacements were capable of stepping in when needed.  The more I think about this "name on the cup issue" the more I believe O'Shea used it as a factor in determining his game time roster.

Sorry for the double post, couldn't type into the first one for some reason. According to the Toronto beat writers Agudosi asked for his release from the Bombers.

[Rod Black]

Dissecting this cup loss doesn’t do much for me. It’s done. What does it for me is that we are Blue Bombers. Currently the most successful franchise of any of the CFL teams. Argos win a cup and they couldn’t fill a stadium. Most other teams would want to be where we are. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Rod Black

[kelownabomberfan]

27 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

Dissecting this cup loss doesn’t do much for me. It’s done. What does it for me is that we are Blue Bombers. Currently the most successful franchise of any of the CFL teams. Argos win a cup and they couldn’t fill a stadium. Most other teams would want to be where we are. 

couldn't fill a tiny stadium...

[Goalie]

4 Grey cups in a row. 2 and 2. Not bad. It's unfortunate Zach sucks outdoors  in Grey cups. Maybe in BC he'd be better? Don't they host next year? 3 of 5? Sounds good to me 

Think these guys know what they are doing 

Will be a interesting off season tho. 

Retirement and FA decisions 

Fully expect brown in Calgary or Ottawa next year 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Goalie

[Booch]

15 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Sorry for the double post, couldn't type into the first one for some reason. According to the Toronto beat writers Agudosi asked for his release from the Bombers.

who would blame him tho

[Goalie]

Are ppl still pretending Agudosi was some stud receiver? 

[Rod Black]

54 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

couldn't fill a tiny stadium...

And couldn’t “repeat”. 

[Bigblue204]

20 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Are ppl still pretending Agudosi was some stud receiver? 

No I don't think so. But I also think it's fair for him to ask for his release 

[Fatty Liver]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

No I don't think so. But I also think it's fair for him to ask for his release 

He'll probably end up playing in one of the new leagues down south, may come back up once he's done.

[kelownabomberfan]

45 minutes ago, Goalie said:

4 Grey cups in a row. 2 and 2. Not bad. It's unfortunate Zach sucks outdoors  in Grey cups. Maybe in BC he'd be better? Don't they host next year? 3 of 5? Sounds good to me 

Think these guys know what they are doing 

Will be a interesting off season tho. 

Retirement and FA decisions 

Fully expect brown in Calgary or Ottawa next year 

Zach lost in the dome in BC in 2014 with Hamilton, but they were playing a pretty good Stamps team that year, and they almost did win it if it wasn't for that flag on Speedy Banks punt return.

Edited November 22, 2023 by kelownabomberfan

[Deiter Fan]

42 minutes ago, Goalie said:

It's unfortunate Zach sucks outdoors  in Grey cups.

Just one guy’s opinion but…

Hanging on to the ball too long…bad decisions…throwing an inordinate number of picks…getting happy feet

This, to me, reeks of a guy tightening up due to the pressure of the moment. Seems odd for a guy with that type of experience but the weight of the pressure to deliver/lead in the biggest moments can affect anyone. 

We’ve all been concerned about his head but maybe for the wrong reasons  

 

[Doublezero]

ZC confirms what many others believe - Dru Brown could be the best QB in the CFL.

So, if that is the case, why on earth would Winnipeg let him go elsewhere?

Obviously if we can only afford to keep one of either Brown or Collaros - it has to be Brown.

“Under the right leadership and coaching and play calling and all those things, I think he can be one of the best if not the best guy in the league. I truly feel that way about Dru,” said veteran quarterback Zach Collaros.

https://3downnation.com/2023/11/22/zach-collaros-in-right-situation-dru-brown-could-be-best-qb-in-cfl/#google_vignette

 

[BBlink]

I'm going to make some excuses for the average play of Collaros in the Grey Cup.

1. We have been a very balanced offensive team...especially in the two years that we had Andrew Harris here. We were run heavy. We basically employ receivers that are run blockers first.

2. We know we can run and running in the playoffs is the way to go

3. 2022 Collaros was playing hurt

4. 2023 our entire receiving core minus Lawler and Woli were hurt

It just goes to show you that it isn't the best team that wins the Grey Cup...it's the hottest/healthiest.

Healthy Collaros and Schoen has been our bread and butter for passing stats the last two years. We haven't had that in both our losses.

That said, has Collaros been stellar, even given the excuses? I'd say no. His underthrows in this last Grey Cup were brutal. But are we making a mountain out of a mole hill? I think so.

[Doublezero]

27 minutes ago, BBlink said:

... has Collaros been stellar, even given the excuses? I'd say no. His underthrows in this last Grey Cup were brutal. But are we making a mountain out of a mole hill? I think so.

It wasn't just the Big Game where he looked like a deer in the headlights, forced throws, and lobbed it into traffic though. He threw for alot of yards and TDs this season but also a pile of picks and bad pick-6s. Compare Collaros's, pocket presence, calmness in the pocket, his vision, throwing velocity and accuracy with that of Dru Brown and you can see Zach is on the downswing and Brown is better. It happens to every QB. Brown has had tremendous mentorship in Winnipeg. Why would you let him get away? They have to figure out a way to sign him as the starter. If Buck leaves, promote Zach to OC (or give him a role like Calvillo in Montreal) and let Brown lead the charge.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Doublezero

[BBlink]

6 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

It wasn't just the Big Game where he looked like a deer in the headlights, forced throws, and lobbed it into traffic though. He threw for alot of yards and TDs this season but also a pile of picks and bad pick-6s. Compare Collaros's, pocket presence, calmness in the pocket, his vision, throwing velocity and accuracy with that of Dru Brown and you can see Zach is on the downswing and Brown is better. It happens to every QB. Brown has had tremendous mentorship in Winnipeg. Why would you let him get away? They have to figure out a way to sign him as the starter. If Buck leaves, promote Zach to OC (or give him a role like Calvillo in Montreal) and let Brown lead the charge.

Hey I'm a huge fan of Brown too. My comment wasn't about Brown - it was about Collaros and the narrative that he isn't a big game QB. He has been hamstrung in the big game the last 2 years. It's a big decision to move on from a guy who has gotten us to 4 straight Grey Cups - despite the fact that we have lost the last two in dramatic fashion.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, BBlink said:

I'm going to make some excuses for the average play of Collaros in the Grey Cup.

1. We have been a very balanced offensive team...especially in the two years that we had Andrew Harris here. We were run heavy. We basically employ receivers that are run blockers first.

2. We know we can run and running in the playoffs is the way to go

3. 2022 Collaros was playing hurt

4. 2023 our entire receiving core minus Lawler and Woli were hurt

It just goes to show you that it isn't the best team that wins the Grey Cup...it's the hottest/healthiest.

Healthy Collaros and Schoen has been our bread and butter for passing stats the last two years. We haven't had that in both our losses.

That said, has Collaros been stellar, even given the excuses? I'd say no. His underthrows in this last Grey Cup were brutal. But are we making a mountain out of a mole hill? I think so.

My counter point to this is that we were a tremendous Brady Oliveira season away from a LOT more criticism being leveled on Collaros. They had to adjust massively to try and keep the pocket clean and when it wasn't he struggled mightily. 

[GCn20]

On 2023-11-21 at 6:00 PM, wbbfan said:

We should d been up by more. Should been up by 21 or more. 
 

 

I agree. 3 red zone trips for 0 points was not great for our ability to win.

17 hours ago, 17to85 said:

My counter point to this is that we were a tremendous Brady Oliveira season away from a LOT more criticism being leveled on Collaros. They had to adjust massively to try and keep the pocket clean and when it wasn't he struggled mightily. 

My counter point to that is he still led the league in just about every category and that is with his running back getting a ton of touches unlike other QBs who were making 40 pass attempts a game.

18 hours ago, Doublezero said:

It wasn't just the Big Game where he looked like a deer in the headlights, forced throws, and lobbed it into traffic though. He threw for alot of yards and TDs this season but also a pile of picks and bad pick-6s. Compare Collaros's, pocket presence, calmness in the pocket, his vision, throwing velocity and accuracy with that of Dru Brown and you can see Zach is on the downswing and Brown is better. It happens to every QB. Brown has had tremendous mentorship in Winnipeg. Why would you let him get away? They have to figure out a way to sign him as the starter. If Buck leaves, promote Zach to OC (or give him a role like Calvillo in Montreal) and let Brown lead the charge.

I love Brown but he has 2 games under his belt. I'm not throwing my league leading 2xMOP QB away because his understudy showed well in a very small sample size.

[JohnnyAbonny]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I agree. 3 red zone trips for 0 points was not great for our ability to win.

My counter point to that is he still led the league in just about every category and that is with his running back getting a ton of touches unlike other QBs who were making 40 pass attempts a game.

I love Brown but he has 2 games under his belt. I'm not throwing my league leading 2xMOP QB away because his understudy showed well in a very small sample size.

It’s a small sample size, and if not for the Edmonton game and Collaros age, I’d agree with you 100%

You’re coming from a more logical place. I just can’t shake this feeling that we’re going to see Brown win multiple cups, either here or somewhere else. Thought it since his first start in 2022. 
 

[GCn20]

11 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

It’s a small sample size, and if not for the Edmonton game and Collaros age, I’d agree with you 100%

You’re coming from a more logical place. I just can’t shake this feeling that we’re going to see Brown win multiple cups, either here or somewhere else. Thought it since his first start in 2022. 
 

I don't disagree that Brown could be a very good QB. I'm just not willing to eliminate the potential that he fizzles out either. He could be the next Reilly or Zac Collaros, but for every one of those guys we also get the Arbuckle's, Evans, and Franklins. In a perfect world we keep Brown, increase his playing time and see if he sustains success. In an imperfect world he moves on, we wish him the best, and maybe he comes back to us one day in FA after Collaros rides off into the sunset.

Edited November 24, 2023 by GCn20

[Fatty Liver]

16 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I don't disagree that Brown could be a very good QB. I'm just not willing to eliminate the potential that he fizzles out either. He could be the next Reilly or Zac Collaros, but for every one of those guys we also get the Arbuckle's, Evans, and Franklins. In a perfect world we keep Brown, increase his playing time and see if he sustains success. In an imperfect world he moves on, we wish him the best, and maybe he comes back to us one day in FA after Collaros rides off into the sunset.

If Brown gets an offer of $300k, he's gone.  Zach is the face of the franchise, none of O'Shea, Miller or Walters is going to think it's time to move on, they may consider it after 2025, but not before.

[Rod Black]

14 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

If Brown gets an offer of $300k, he's gone.  Zach is the face of the franchise, none of O'Shea, Miller or Walters is going to think it's time to move on, they may consider it after 2025, but not before.

The franchise has had more success with ZC than the uncertainty that would exist with monsieur Brown.