Call it what you want … you need to move on from Collaros

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

The difference being that playcalling is what Lapo sucks at! Which is why I don't want him back.

Not saying I'm in love with the prospect, just that it is what probably happens if Buck leaves.

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

1 we don’t know if Zach can. As I broke down his numbers in 9 bomber play off games are pitiful. 
 

2 he wasn’t though. He was in a glut of 3 guys that includes vaj and Kelly. Both of whom are much younger. If he regresses or either of them progress more he isn’t in the top tier next year. 

I think that’s far from the safe move. The only safe move would be to bring both back. 

I bet you could get both for less than 600k total too. 
 The options with strevy are unlimited. 
Idk if ham would pony up given how his stint there ended. But I think ott would. 

I find it hilarious that you break down Collaros's playoff numbers in isolation while suggesting Kelly is his equal after maybe the worst playoff performance in a generation. You point to playoffs ONLY as an indicator of next year's performance for Collaros but if that is the case the two guys you say may surpass him should be cut this offseason based on beyond horrible playoff performances themselves. That's the danger of cherry picking games to support your argument..it doesn't show the full body of work.

Qbs rarely are stellar in the playoffs. That's just a function of defences playing harder and cold weather. Zac was the best QB in the CFL this year and there is more reason to believe VA and CK will regress than ZC.

Edited November 26, 2023 by GCn20

[Goalie]

Buck to sask? Why would he do that? The team sucks 

[GCn20]

Just now, Goalie said:

Buck to sask? Why would he do that? The team sucks 

$$

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

 

I bet you could get both for less than 600k total too. 
 

If you are talking about Dru, I don’t think the money is the issue at this point. Dru's ready to lead a team. I think at juncture in his career he will prioritize being the starter over money.

[JohnnyAbonny]

13 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

People throwing scenarios out if Buck were to leave for another job.

Ok good. If Buck moves on I want a clean break from residual Lapo with a new system, never mind the man himself coming back. 

I’m sure he’s a hell of a nice guy but the Lapo offence definitely has a ceiling. 

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Buck to sask? Why would he do that? The team sucks 

Every year since 2016 whoever our OC is gets penciled in for the Sask job. 

I’ll believe it when I see it. 
 

If anything, the job in Ottawa seems more appealing but I really don’t see Buck leaving here. 

If we’re going to lose an assistant hypothetically, it’s Jordan Younger I’d be most unhappy about. 

[JohnnyAbonny]

Also- As much as I’m in the keep Brown camp, I understand the difference between what I want vs what will actually happen. 

I’ve been thinking about Collaros. It would be really nice to see how much of a difference in play there would be if the center wasn’t regularly in his lap.

Watched some season highlights over the last few days. Hate to harp on the same guy, but man did that OL ever look weaker in pass pro with Kolo in there. Could have been a bigger issue than we realize.

[White Out]

I cant imagine a worse scenario than having Dru go on to be a dominant qb in another organization. We need to find a way to keep him.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I find it hilarious that you break down Collaros's playoff numbers in isolation while suggesting Kelly is his equal after maybe the worst playoff performance in a generation. You point to playoffs ONLY as an indicator of next year's performance for Collaros but if that is the case the two guys you say may surpass him should be cut this offseason based on beyond horrible playoff performances themselves. That's the danger of cherry picking games to support your argument..it doesn't show the full body of work.

Qbs rarely are stellar in the playoffs. That's just a function of defences playing harder and cold weather. Zac was the best QB in the CFL this year and there is more reason to believe VA and CK will regress than ZC.

Zach has had a couple of those type stat lines in the last two seasons. Kelly carried the way to a win in the gc, some thing Zach hasn’t. The three are absolutely in the same tier. 
 The top tier of qbing in the cfl is not elite. No qb right now is. Any thing could happen to any of them. 
 Play off performance isn’t cherry picking. Especially over 4 years. 
 Cole weather? What cold weather game did Zach play this year? Defences aren’t better, you just don’t get to beat up on bad teams or teams in a bad spot.  
vaj improved this year again. He is still a very flawed qb but no question he improved. Zach has taken a step back for the second consecutive year and is going it be 36 next year. If you think that equals Zach being less likely to regress you’ve lost it bud. 

 

1 hour ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

If you are talking about Dru, I don’t think the money is the issue at this point. Dru's ready to lead a team. I think at juncture in his career he will prioritize being the starter over money.

Agree. I think if you tell brown he goes into camp to fight against strevy for starter he’s willing to take a far more team friendly deal. 

 

1 hour ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Also- As much as I’m in the keep Brown camp, I understand the difference between what I want vs what will actually happen. 

I’ve been thinking about Collaros. It would be really nice to see how much of a difference in play there would be if the center wasn’t regularly in his lap.

Watched some season highlights over the last few days. Hate to harp on the same guy, but man did that OL ever look weaker in pass pro with Kolo in there. Could have been a bigger issue than we realize.

Normally I’d say nothing will happen vets make the rules on mos teams. But as some one pointed out Willy was mos’ boy through and through. So was Nichols and big Chris. I think it’s more likely than most vets that he pulls the trigger. Though I think that’d be next year in season which could well be too late. 
 

Idk with Zach bouncing back. Eli would be a big quality of life improvement. I don’t think even Zach would know if he would have another bounce back in him or not. Ol being better would be huge. At the same time he had the greatest skill group surrounding him this last year that a bomber QB has maybe ever had. Lawler schoen Brady Demski bailey woli is insane. If he had a 2021 ol and half the threats would he improve? 

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Ok good. If Buck moves on I want a clean break from residual Lapo with a new system, never mind the man himself coming back. 
If anything, the job in Ottawa seems more appealing but I really don’t see Buck leaving here. 

If we’re going to lose an assistant hypothetically, it’s Jordan Younger I’d be most unhappy about. 

It'll thrill you to know Rider fans are in an orgasmic tizzy over Buck becoming HC and bringing Younger and Dru Brown along with him.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Fatty Liver

[Mark H.]

37 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

At the same time he had the greatest skill group surrounding him this last year that a bomber QB has maybe ever had. Lawler schoen Brady Demski bailey woli is insane. If he had a 2021 ol and half the threats would he improve? 

That's a big maybe.

93/94 with Dunigan healthy

And for sure 2001

 

[JohnnyAbonny]

6 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

That's a big maybe.

93/94 with Dunigan healthy

And for sure 2001

 

2001 for sure. 

For fun. 93/94 had an equal or arguably better top end set of skill players. David Williams and Alfred Jackson were an amazing 1-2. I’d argue equal to Schoen/Lawler. 

Brady > Blaze Bryant/Richardson 

The depth kind of sucked back then though. Think Allan Boyko and Jamie Holland vs Bailey and Woli. 

I’d rank it

01-02,

23,

92-94

 

[Piggy 1]

9 hours ago, Booch said:

A Strev Brown combo would work real well actually....pay em both 300k...with start bonuses...and a few incentives.....Sign a rookie entry level guy for the 3rd string spot...would be a net savings overall.....And I'd run multiple combos and sets all game with both on the field at once...Strev in back field...TE...run option with both them....could really create a lot of havoc....Get in his ear now about a contract....and if you get it done you send ZC to the Hammer for their Bennett (or at least the rights to deal with him before FA)...Toss in Erlington an a pick an we forge on

 

Is this what we call utopia ,Booch? LMAO.  But I love it ......Highly doubt Strev wants to come back at this point...unless you know something we dont. Which you always do......

[GCn20]

14 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Zach has had a couple of those type stat lines in the last two seasons. Kelly carried the way to a win in the gc, some thing Zach hasn’t. The three are absolutely in the same tier. 
 The top tier of qbing in the cfl is not elite. No qb right now is. Any thing could happen to any of them. 
 Play off performance isn’t cherry picking. Especially over 4 years. 
 Cole weather? What cold weather game did Zach play this year? Defences aren’t better, you just don’t get to beat up on bad teams or teams in a bad spot.  
vaj improved this year again. He is still a very flawed qb but no question he improved. Zach has taken a step back for the second consecutive year and is going it be 36 next year. If you think that equals Zach being less likely to regress you’ve lost it bud. 

 

Agree. I think if you tell brown he goes into camp to fight against strevy for starter he’s willing to take a far more team friendly deal. 

 

Normally I’d say nothing will happen vets make the rules on mos teams. But as some one pointed out Willy was mos’ boy through and through. So was Nichols and big Chris. I think it’s more likely than most vets that he pulls the trigger. Though I think that’d be next year in season which could well be too late. 
 

Idk with Zach bouncing back. Eli would be a big quality of life improvement. I don’t think even Zach would know if he would have another bounce back in him or not. Ol being better would be huge. At the same time he had the greatest skill group surrounding him this last year that a bomber QB has maybe ever had. Lawler schoen Brady Demski bailey woli is insane. If he had a 2021 ol and half the threats would he improve? 

Please show me the stat lines where Zac turned the ball over 9 times, or passed for 3 yards in the first half of a playoff game? If you are talking about the regular season then don't use playoffs as your metric. Zac hasn't put up hall of fame numbers in the playoffs but he hasn't really played badly either until this year's Grey Cup, and that really wasn't terrible either. He was asked to game manage and he did. It was actually when he tried to open it up that it cost us. Bottom line is Zac was the best QB in the CFL last year. The numbers prove it. If you want to move the goal posts to the playoffs to determine who was the best QB last year.....still Zac....and yes, I firmly and strongly believe he is the least likely to regress next year out of the top 3. Kelly looks to be mentally fragile, I think the book is out on him now and Vernon Adams has been wildly inconsistent his entire career and I don't see that changing. What has Zac done? Nothing but win 2xMOP and then be the league's top QB for a third year in a row. That' s consistency I am willing to bank on. You talk like 36 is ancient for a QB, and it's not. Other football positions sure...but not QB.

Edited November 27, 2023 by GCn20

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Please show me the stat lines where Zac turned the ball over 9 times, or passed for 3 yards in the first half of a playoff game? If you are talking about the regular season then don't use playoffs as your metric. Zac hasn't put up hall of fame numbers in the playoffs but he hasn't really played badly either until this year's Grey Cup, and that really wasn't terrible either. He was asked to game manage and he did. It was actually when he tried to open it up that it cost us. Bottom line is Zac was the best QB in the CFL last year. The numbers prove it. If you want to move the goal posts to the playoffs to determine who was the best QB last year.....still Zac....and yes, I firmly and strongly believe he is the least likely to regress next year out of the top 3. Kelly looks to be mentally fragile, I think the book is out on him now and Vernon Adams has been wildly inconsistent his entire career and I don't see that changing. What has Zac done? Nothing but win 2xMOP and then be the league's top QB for a third year in a row. That' s consistency I am willing to bank on. You talk like 36 is ancient for a QB, and it's not. Other football positions sure...but not QB.

Cofaj was better than Zach when it mattered.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[GCn20]

45 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Cofaj was better than Zach when it mattered.

 

 

 

 

Yep...he was. It's a good thing I am not going to define any QB by one playoff loss like some others on this forum. Any given Sunday and all that. I just don't believe that Collaros, although he played poorly in the Grey Cup, is showing great signs of regression like some others on here. Was he MOP level ZC, no not this year. Was he best QB in the CFL level ZC...imo he was. I just think our Grey Cup loss really has some guys jumping the shark a bit and wildly overthinking things. But yeah...if you want to take playoffs as the only indicator of future QB play then CoFaj would be the gold standard QB right now based off that.....and we all know that it was simply a case of the sun's gotta shine on a dog's ass once in a while.

Edited November 27, 2023 by GCn20

[Doublezero]

For past couple regular seasons (let alone playoffs) ZC hasn't passed the eye test. Stats-wise, OK, fine. But he's been very inconsistent - are you going to get the good Zach or bad Zach? Downward trajectory especially noticeable when he came back after sitting out couple games with a neck injury Game 10 thanks to what should've been RP by Elks Kony Ealy. But even prior to that Zach was very hot/cold in my opinion. It looked like Buck might've adjusted the playbook after that - taking a more conservative game manager approach that doesn't exactly suit Collaros's style. But it also seemed Zach was taking longer than normal to process things. That could be why Dru Brown had such brilliant success in relief. Much quicker processing time, quicker release, high velocity throws. 

[GCn20]

17 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

For past couple regular seasons (let alone playoffs) ZC hasn't passed the eye test. Stats-wise, OK, fine. But he's been very inconsistent - are you going to get the good Zach or bad Zach? Downward trajectory especially noticeable when he came back after sitting out couple games with a neck injury Game 10 thanks to what should've been RP by Elks Kony Ealy. But even prior to that Zach was very hot/cold in my opinion. It looked like Buck might've adjusted the playbook after that - taking a more conservative game manager approach that doesn't exactly suit Collaros's style. But it also seemed Zach was taking longer than normal to process things. That could be why Dru Brown had such brilliant success in relief. Much quicker processing time, quicker release, high velocity throws. 

How much of Dru Brown's success is just teams not having a ton of tape on him? That is huge. We criticize Zac for inconsistency but in the games he was inconsistent was when his OL was getting bettered by the opposition. Did he try too hard to force some things sometimes this year. I think so. I am super unclear how a guy with a QB rating over the season of around 110 can be labelled as inconsistent though. I just think that as a fan base we tend to have selective memory of the past and we are holding him up to the standard of a QB we have romanticized in our heads. Go the game by game logs of 2021 or 2022 he`s had non descript games in every season he is here and I would argue that most if not all QBs have in the modern era.  ALL QBs numbers go noticeably down after Labor Day. Every year. Defences catch up to offences...that`s just football.

Fact of the matter is that defences were solid all around the league this year and nobody played better against them than Zac.

Edited November 27, 2023 by GCn20

[SpeedFlex27]

Good Zach or bad Zach? CoFaj was better than Zach when it mattered? This fanbase deserves a qb worse than Taylor Cornelius so badly. I hope we get it real soon, go 3-15 just to shut up the naysayers who'll then be longing for the Good Old Days of today. I've never read such drivel here before. Was Zach on the field when our secondary looked like swiss cheese on that final drive? Did Zach call a Cover Zero defense on thre goalline that final play? Does Zach play favourites politically with the roster?? Did Zach dress Adam Bighill just so he'd get his name on the GC if we won? He must as he's at fault for everything else, it seems.

[GCn20]

55 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Good Zach or bad Zach? CoFaj was better than Zach when it mattered? This fanbase deserves a qb worse than Taylor Cornelius so badly. I hope we get it real soon, go 3-15 just to shut up the naysayers who'll then be longing for the Good Old Days of today. I've never read such drivel here before. Was Zach on the field when our secondary looked like swiss cheese on that final drive? Did Zach call a Cover Zero defense on thre goalline that final play? Does Zach play favourites politically with the roster?? Did Zach dress Adam Bighill just so he'd get his name on the GC if we won? He must as he's at fault for everything else, it seems.

Yea...I agree. There were a couple plays Zac made that cost us, but really nothing that should have put the game in jeopardy on a day where our defence plays up to it's level. Not hearing much about that though. I get the excitement over Brown's potential but painting Zac as an inconsistent has been that we will be sorry to keep is completely over the top.

Edited November 27, 2023 by GCn20

[17to85]

Anyone who didn't see cracks start to emerge in Collaros wasn't paying attention and at his age it is totally valid to question how much longer he can be at that level. Especially when he has a top 2 biggest salary in the league.

[SpeedFlex27]

19 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Anyone who didn't see cracks start to emerge in Collaros wasn't paying attention and at his age it is totally valid to question how much longer he can be at that level. Especially when he has a top 2 biggest salary in the league.

Twenty nine regular season wins in the last 2 seasons. Then factor in the playoffs & it's 31. What qb in recent memory comes even close to that stat?? Cracks? There are no cracks. We have a HC who squanders games with his crazy as hell use of the roster. We have a DC who blitzes into brick walls of blocking. keeps doing it even when it doesn't work. Plays cover zero on the goal line. Yet, it's somehow Collaros showing cracks???? 

[Stickem]

I've witnessed this type of decline in a player, quite a few times over my 60 plus yrs. of watching performances in this league....Is Zack the same guy who took us to 2 Cups ???I would say not after the results of the last 2....Was it all on Zack...I would say no, but there's certainly a big question mark about his performances in the last 2....Is there enough decline to replace him as the no 1 on this club??? Don't see it yet but the cracks are there....I think more shared pivot duties are around the corner for him AND keeping Brown as that qb. would be the way to proceed in the future...Zack seems to have all of the faith in the world in Dru Brown after hearing his praise for the guy...I believe Collaro's game will eventually give way to the natural progression of Brown becoming a bona-fide no 1...I hope the team decides to go in that direction

[GCn20]

6 minutes ago, Stickem said:

I've witnessed this type of decline in a player, quite a few times over my 60 plus yrs. of watching performances in this league....Is Zack the same guy who took us to 2 Cups ???I would say not after the results of the last 2....Was it all on Zack...I would say no, but there's certainly a big question mark about his performances in the last 2....Is there enough decline to replace him as the no 1 on this club??? Don't see it yet but the cracks are there....I think more shared pivot duties are around the corner for him AND keeping Brown as that qb. would be the way to proceed in the future...Zack seems to have all of the faith in the world in Dru Brown after hearing his praise for the guy...I believe Collaro's game will eventually give way to the natural progression of Brown becoming a bona-fide no 1...I hope the team decides to go in that direction

Please compare stat lines between the first two Grey Cup wins and the next two losses. Virtually identical. We neither won nor lost cups because of Zac Collaros. He did give us our best chance to win in all 4 tho. We will not be keeping Brown unless no one wants him to compete as their starter. We need to be realistic. We have the league's best QB under contract for the next 2 years with a very significant amount of that contract guaranteed. We couldn't move on from Collaros if we wanted to without severely damaging our SMS. I mean let's be real here people, Brown MIGHT BE a good QB starter someday, and Collaros IS UNQUESTIONABLY a good QB starter right now. The CFL salary structure is not built to be looking long game 2-3 years down the road. This isn't the NHL. Contracts are one year, sometimes 2, very occasionally 3 for a select few. You go with who will give you the best chance to win THIS year. That is Collaros.

Edited November 27, 2023 by GCn20

[Stickem]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Please compare stat lines between the first two Grey Cup wins and the next two losses. Virtually identical. We will not be keeping Brown unless no one wants him to compete as their starter. We need to be realistic.

Then watch Brown become a star somewhere else...(zacks words that he will be one) while Collaros game goes into natural decline