Call it what you want … you need to move on from Collaros

[GCn20]

35 minutes ago, Stickem said:

So you are finally admitting that roster management was a contributing factor to our Cup loss.....Well that's a start ....I think the percentage is a lot higher BUT I'll accept that....I would like to say that 'contributing factor 'could have been avoided and was the difference in a Cup win and a Cup loss....Also it should never have occurred in a game of that importance....

At no point did I say it wasnt. I stated that it was way, way down the list of reasons why we lost and I stand by that.  FACT: That was a winnable game with the roster we had dressed. FACT: Our own mistakes cost us that game. FACT: Buck and RIchie Hall did not have very good game plans. FACT: 3 red zone turnovers took a potential 21 points, and a guaranteed 9 points off the board that would have secured us victory easily. When you add all that up, where does roster management stand in all of that. Very low in the order of importance. It would be different if the Jeffs looked gassed, or Biggie was completely ineffectual, or we were not able to drive on the ALs...which we did...just turnovers cost us points. However, we did all that and made some key mental and ball security mistakes and it cost us the game.

I get that some of you guys really want to pin this on the roster management boogeyman that we have been hearing ad nauseum about all year, but it simply was not the case in the Grey Cup. A very small contributing factor....MAYBE...can not even say that for sure. What I can tell you for sure is that when you turn the ball over 3 times in the red zone against a D like the ALs...you stand a very good chance of losing that game and we did. Not sure why everyone is so myopically fixed on the whole roster management thing that you are forgetting football 101.

Edited November 29, 2023 by GCn20

[Geebrr]

It is crazy how such a poorly coached team with aging unproductive players and no depth keeps going to Grey Cups. 
 

 

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

It is crazy how such a poorly coached team with aging unproductive players and no depth keeps going to Grey Cups. 
 

 

Right? I hated that Grey Cup loss as much as anyone but we lost that game a heckuva lot more than the Als won it with the roster, depth, and age that we dressed. I firmly believe that 95 times out of a hundred the roster we dressed and played that day wins that game. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

The keys to victory that I stated somewhere in the week before the game were.

1. Protect the football - FAILED

2. Score when the opportunity is there against their tough defence. FAILED

3. Don't let Fajardo get flukey. FAILED. 

(and yes, I do very much believe there were a number of over thrown and under thrown balls that if our DB has proper position would have been incomplete or intercepted.)

Edited November 29, 2023 by GCn20

[Geebrr]

2 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

A question for the many who are much more knowledgeable than me.  In regards to Bighill and Schoen, if they had not dressed and we had won, would they still have gotten their names on the cup and a ring?  I'm assuming they would have, but if not, I can understand why O'Shea would have been so determined to make sure that they dressed and played.

They definitely would have got a ring. Dayna Spiring has her name on the Cup so I’m not sure why an injured player wouldn’t.

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Geebrr said:

They definitely would have got a ring. Dayna Spiring has her name on the Cup so I’m not sure why an injured player wouldn’t.

It's actually true. Only the 46 man goes on the cup.

[Geebrr]

That is bizarre. 

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

That is bizarre. 

Yea..it's kind of strange for sure.

[Sard]

4 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

They definitely would have got a ring. Dayna Spiring has her name on the Cup so I’m not sure why an injured player wouldn’t.

46 Players and executives go on the cup.  Because Dayna Spiring was the chair of the board at the time, she got her name on there.

[Geebrr]

6 minutes ago, Sard said:

46 Players and executives go on the cup.  Because Dayna Spiring was the chair of the board at the time, she got her name on there.

It is crazy that a guy who gets hurt in the 2Q of the West Final after playing the whole year wouldn’t get his name on it. 

Ditch the executives - they don’t play. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Bighill said that on the TD pass to the Als slot that he didn't have pass responsibilities on that play. Okay, in theory, yes. However, in reality, he did & couldn't cover the player. Cost us a TD. Playing Bighill was even dumber than playing Schoen. 

We had two healthy receivers in Ambles & BOO & they sat while the hospital ward played & limped around at 60% so if we had won they'd have their names on the Cup. Whatever happened to, "There's no 'I' in Team? This was an EPIC fail on O'Shea's part who admitted that he has no regrets & would do it again if the situation occurred. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[Booch]

1 hour ago, Geebrr said:

It is crazy how such a poorly coached team with aging unproductive players and no depth keeps going to Grey Cups. 
 

 

cause there are a buttload of crappy teams as of late....ran really poorly....so our deficiencies aren't over exposed...u all keep clinging to past sucess....key word past...we havnt won jackshit since 2021...and thats a fact

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Sard said:

46 Players and executives go on the cup.  Because Dayna Spiring was the chair of the board at the time, she got her name on there.

O'Shea explained in his final press conference, it wasn't fair, but if they included all the players names on the roster the Grey Cup would probably be twice the size it is.  I can see them digitizing this information in the near future, scan a barcode and get the full picture for any specific year.

[Booch]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Right? I hated that Grey Cup loss as much as anyone but we lost that game a heckuva lot more than the Als won it with the roster, depth, and age that we dressed. I firmly believe that 95 times out of a hundred the roster we dressed and played that day wins that game. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

The keys to victory that I stated somewhere in the week before the game were.

1. Protect the football - FAILED Possibly having healthy players to spread ball around to instead of forcingplays.....weak roster...aka roster management..aka...FAIL

2. Score when the opportunity is there against their tough defence. Have healthy players on said offence....Fail...Poor roster management

3. Don't let Fajardo get flukey. FAILED. Have solid rotation to really get in Faj's kitchen...Fail...Inadequate roster management..

(and yes, I do very much believe there were a number of over thrown and under thrown balls that if our DB has proper position would have been incomplete or intercepted.) Poor Coaching decisions as to not make a switch...if even for a series...can also be linked to poor use of roster you had for game.....guys on sidelines doing nothing

Fixed it for you so you can see how the roster yes in effect was a reason as to your excuses as to why we lost

Edited November 29, 2023 by Booch

[17to85]

3 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

but if not, I can understand why O'Shea would have been so determined to make sure that they dressed and played.

Except now no one gets their name on the cup... so no I can't understand it. 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

FACT: That was a winnable game with the roster we had dressed. FACT: Our own mistakes cost us that game. FACT: Buck and RIchie Hall did not have very good game plans. FACT: 3 red zone turnovers took a potential 21 points, and a guaranteed 9 points off the board that would have secured us victory easily. When you add all that up, where does roster management stand in all of that. Very low in the order of importance. It would be different if the Jeffs looked gassed, or Biggie was completely ineffectual, or we were not able to drive on the ALs...which we did...just turnovers cost us points. However, we did all that and made some key mental and ball security mistakes and it cost us the game.

Here is what you are failing to consider.... one of the things that this team used to do every single time was grind it out and wear other teams down over the course of a game and pull away in the end. The reason they were able to do that was primarily because they rotated like 8 quality guys throughout the defensive line and were always able to control that aspect. Last 2 grey cups we've seen the defense let them down late in the game and a big part of that is not having the quality bodies to keep rotating.  That's roster management and it arguably cost them multiple games this season. Grey cup 100%, probably the loss to Ottawa as well. 

 

Cfl rosters are small enough as is, you can't be wasting spots on guys who don't contribute anything.

[SpeedFlex27]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Here is what you are failing to consider.... one of the things that this team used to do every single time was grind it out and wear other teams down over the course of a game and pull away in the end. The reason they were able to do that was primarily because they rotated like 8 quality guys throughout the defensive line and were always able to control that aspect. Last 2 grey cups we've seen the defense let them down late in the game and a big part of that is not having the quality bodies to keep rotating.  That's roster management and it arguably cost them multiple games this season. Grey cup 100%, probably the loss to Ottawa as well. 

 

Cfl rosters are small enough as is, you can't be wasting spots on guys who don't contribute anything.

Right on!

[JCon]

FACT: We won the GC with Lapo as OC, so if Buck leaves, we should bring him back. 

 

 

(I'll just watch the heads explode from here)

[Booch]

19 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Here is what you are failing to consider.... one of the things that this team used to do every single time was grind it out and wear other teams down over the course of a game and pull away in the end. The reason they were able to do that was primarily because they rotated like 8 quality guys throughout the defensive line and were always able to control that aspect. Last 2 grey cups we've seen the defense let them down late in the game and a big part of that is not having the quality bodies to keep rotating.  That's roster management and it arguably cost them multiple games this season. Grey cup 100%, probably the loss to Ottawa as well. 

 

Cfl rosters are small enough as is, you can't be wasting spots on guys who don't contribute anything.

and we seen it way too much during the reg. season in 2022 and 2023...

 

5 minutes ago, JCon said:

FACT: We won the GC with Lapo as OC, so if Buck leaves, we should bring him back. 

 

 

(I'll just watch the heads explode from here)

if he was to interview...I would hope they asked if he intended to do the same ol same ol...or open things up a bit and be more adventorous....and that we want that in an oc

[HardCoreBlue]

16 minutes ago, Booch said:

and we seen it way too much during the reg. season in 2022 and 2023...

 

if he was to interview...I would hope they asked if he intended to do the same ol same ol...or open things up a bit and be more adventorous....and that we want that in an oc

Would prefer he stay in the Broadcast booth, I really like him there but if he is considered just based on my observations on Lapo over the years please:

Call plays to win not call plays to not lose.

Be more open to adjusting when needed based on other people's feedback. In fact, just be more open to feedback. You don't have all the answers. Have a team of trusted advisors that can help you with your blind spots. We all have them, recognize that.  

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Here is what you are failing to consider.... one of the things that this team used to do every single time was grind it out and wear other teams down over the course of a game and pull away in the end. The reason they were able to do that was primarily because they rotated like 8 quality guys throughout the defensive line and were always able to control that aspect. Last 2 grey cups we've seen the defense let them down late in the game and a big part of that is not having the quality bodies to keep rotating.  That's roster management and it arguably cost them multiple games this season. Grey cup 100%, probably the loss to Ottawa as well. 

 

Cfl rosters are small enough as is, you can't be wasting spots on guys who don't contribute anything.

Who grinds out wins on defence? We grind out wins on offence or we are probably not going to win regardless of lineup. The biggest part of a defence getting tired late in the game is because they were on the field longer than they should have been, meaning they are not playing well. It is my belief that if we win TOP, as we should with our offence more times than not, and our defence is playing to their level that roster management is a completely moot point. If we are in trouble because the defence is getting gassed the game was lost even before that.

Edited November 29, 2023 by GCn20

[Sard]

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Who grinds out wins on defence? We grind out wins on offence or we are probably not going to win regardless of lineup.

You grind out a win on defence by constantly forcing 2 and outs for the offence to come back on the field.

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Sard said:

You grind out a win on defence by constantly forcing 2 and outs for the offence to come back on the field.

That's not grinding tho. That's doing your job. If you are going 2 and out as you should, then your defence is fresh as a daisy all game long without needing a huge rotation and roster management is a moot point. That's what I'm getting at. The games we lost this year is because of one of two reasons, our offence was going 2 and out, and our defence was allowing long drives. Sometimes it was both. Did not having fresh bodies complicate things...yea....I have never suggested it didn't however only after we shat the bed.

Edited November 29, 2023 by GCn20

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, Sard said:

You grind out a win on defence by constantly forcing 2 and outs for the offence to come back on the field.

If we improve the Front 7 just watch how much better the Back 5 play. Right now, the Front 7 isn't good enough. 

[17to85]

9 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Who grinds out wins on defence? We grind out wins on offence or we are probably not going to win regardless of lineup.

Ummm everyone... guys, especially guys on the older side of things wear down as a game goes on.  You rotate and keep guys fresh you can keep your level high where as the offensive line isn't rotating players and will be the ones with less in the tank by the end. 

Are you being deliberately obtuse here or what? Cause some of the things you are saying are pants on head ********.

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If we improve the Front 7 just watch how much better the Back 5 play. Right now, the Front 7 isn't good enough. 

That's weird because we ranked 2nd overall in sacks and QB pressures, and tops in the league in passing yardage against. Your argument does not hold up to the stats.

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Ummm everyone... guys, especially guys on the older side of things wear down as a game goes on.  You rotate and keep guys fresh you can keep your level high where as the offensive line isn't rotating players and will be the ones with less in the tank by the end. 

Are you being deliberately obtuse here or what? Cause some of the things you are saying are pants on head ********.

Obtuse....not at all. Was roster management a problem in our defensive decimation of BC in the WF? What was different that game do you suppose? Was it in 14 out of 18 games this year. No. Obtuse...you are the one being obtuse by measuring roster management impact solely on 5 out of 20 games. Look at the whole damn picture before you call me obtuse. Our defence led the league all year in just about every meaningful category despite the roster management. So if it was that problematic...I'm just not sure where that showed up. Look, I'm not defending the roster management quirks of MOS. I'd love to see him change that. However, I'm not ready to run him out of town with a pitch fork either. It's odd roster usage but minimally damaging imo and it is being vastly oversold here as some kind of huge problem.

Edited November 29, 2023 by GCn20