Call it what you want … you need to move on from Collaros

[bigg jay]

Even when he wasn't getting sacks, Willie was still making an impact and (arguably) had a better season than last year so I don't think age is an issue for him yet.  Rotation, or lack thereof, is a bigger issue (imo).

2022: 33 tackles, 7 sacks, 10 knockdowns, 2 forced fumbles & 1 interception.

2023: 21 tackles, 11 sacks, 13 knockdowns, 3 forced fumbles & no interceptions.

[Booch]

WJ is just fine....as is Jeffcoat if he stays outta the tub...which he basically did all yr for most part...he plays a more physical game than WJ....so that makes that legit rotation guy even more important for the over all production and health....we lacked it last few yrs pretty bad

[GCn20]

On 2023-12-04 at 1:11 PM, 17to85 said:

You know it's ok to admit that our star players are getting old... happens to everyone. 2019 was 5 years ago. None of these players are the same guys they were then. We need a serious injection of youth because waiting until they really hit the wall it is too late. No matter what some people want to believe cracks are appearing. 

Of course cracks are appearing, no one said otherwise, it's just that our cracks were small enough to not matter as much because we were that far out ahead of everyone. That being said the roster needs to be carefully looked at for diminishing returns this, and every, offseason. 

On 2023-12-04 at 4:06 PM, Booch said:

WJ is just fine....as is Jeffcoat if he stays outta the tub...which he basically did all yr for most part...he plays a more physical game than WJ....so that makes that legit rotation guy even more important for the over all production and health....we lacked it last few yrs pretty bad

Yea...Willie is a top 3 DE in this league and Jeffcoat is in the tub EVERY year but is a force of nature when he's in the lineup. I agree that a decent DE rotational guy would be awesome to have. Love to see Kongbo come home.

[Booch]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Of course cracks are appearing, no one said otherwise, it's just that our cracks were small enough to not matter as much because we were that far out ahead of everyone. That being said the roster needs to be carefully looked at for diminishing returns this, and every, offseason. 

Yea...Willie is a top 3 DE in this league and Jeffcoat is in the tub EVERY year but is a force of nature when he's in the lineup. I agree that a decent DE rotational guy would be awesome to have. Love to see Kongbo come home.

If we could land Kongbo and Bennett....we could conceivably use the one DA spot for a monster nose to run with Lawson and hopefully Fox...Unless we land or unearth another dtackle even better

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

If we could land Kongbo and Bennett....we could conceivably use the one DA spot for a monster nose to run with Lawson and hopefully Fox...Unless we land or unearth another dtackle even better

I'm all for Kongbo or Bennett. Make it happen Kyle.

[bustamente]

If we could only land of Kongbo or Bennett I would choose Bennett

[GCn20]

19 hours ago, bustamente said:

If we could only land of Kongbo or Bennett I would choose Bennett

I would go with either of them equally. Whoever, costs less. Bennett is probably slightly better but we know Kongbo is FIFO and is capable.

[Booch]

Either or would be huge...both would be ideal

I would think Bennett is a mere formality in coming back home....

[JCon]

So, you target two National ends, and dump Jeffcoat? Or pay a premium for two Nationals to not start?

This team needs to build through the draft, the neg list and cheap Americans. 

We can't afford FAs with the players that need to be paid and the old timers we're keeping around. 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

6 minutes ago, JCon said:

So, you target two National ends, and dump Jeffcoat? Or pay a premium for two Nationals to not start?

This team needs to build through the draft, the neg list and cheap Americans. 

We can't afford FAs with the players that need to be paid and the old timers we're keeping around. 

 

We need to target the interior tackles to improve the line. 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

So, you target two National ends, and dump Jeffcoat? Or pay a premium for two Nationals to not start?

This team needs to build through the draft, the neg list and cheap Americans. 

We can't afford FAs with the players that need to be paid and the old timers we're keeping around. 

 

Definitely the price has to be right. We can't pay either guy starting NAT money.

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We need to target the interior tackles to improve the line. 

I agree. We need a NT that is more disruptive.

[Fatty Liver]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Definitely the price has to be right. We can't pay either guy starting NAT money.

I agree. We need a NT that is more disruptive.

Ted Laurent is available and with age his price might have come down.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

So, you target two National ends, and dump Jeffcoat? Or pay a premium for two Nationals to not start?

This team needs to build through the draft, the neg list and cheap Americans. 

We can't afford FAs with the players that need to be paid and the old timers we're keeping around. 

 

We don't even know who is coming back or not.  Currently about 2/3 of the team are free agents.

So yeah there's a **** load of cap space in 2024, almost all of it.

[JCon]

20 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

We don't even know who is coming back or not.  Currently about 2/3 of the team are free agents.

So yeah there's a **** load of cap space in 2024, almost all of it.

Yes, I'm assuming we're bringing back a lot of the same guys. Some will be due pay raises and some will get those raises elsewhere. 

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

Yes, I'm assuming we're bringing back a lot of the same guys. Some will be due pay raises and some will get those raises elsewhere. 

I think we may see a couple guys with healthy salaries hang them up.

32 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Ted Laurent is available and with age his price might have come down.

I have a feeling Laurent is a Ticat until they no longer want him and he may hang them up if they don't.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Ted Laurent is available and with age his price might have come down.

Laurent's performance is already on the downside with his age. He'd be way too expensive. There will be better choices. 

[Jesse]

9 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

We don't even know who is coming back or not.  Currently about 2/3 of the team are free agents.

So yeah there's a **** load of cap space in 2024, almost all of it.

Yes, but we've built things a certain way over the past few years and I really don't expect it to change all that much.

[GCn20]

20 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Yes, but we've built things a certain way over the past few years and I really don't expect it to change all that much.

I expect that we will try to keep the gang together as much as we can but SMS will play a part for sure.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

5 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Laurent's performance is already on the downside with his age. He'd be way too expensive. There will be better choices. 

Love Teddy,  but yeah, he is not what we need right now. 

[JohnnyAbonny]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Laurent's performance is already on the downside with his age. He'd be way too expensive. There will be better choices. 

Agreed mostly. I’d have no interest in anyone at that age really, it’s not that stage of building anymore. 
The only scenario I’d be ok with Laurent is if Thomas retires and they couldn’t find anyone at ALL in the draft.
I’d take Laurent on the cheap over a guy like Shmeckel, that’s it though. 

[GCn20]

53 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Agreed mostly. I’d have no interest in anyone at that age really, it’s not that stage of building anymore. 
The only scenario I’d be ok with Laurent is if Thomas retires and they couldn’t find anyone at ALL in the draft.
I’d take Laurent on the cheap over a guy like Shmeckel, that’s it though. 

Laurent carries the NAT tag and that is one of the only reasons he is still playing. He's in Jake Thomas territory career wise right now.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Agreed mostly. I’d have no interest in anyone at that age really, it’s not that stage of building anymore. 
The only scenario I’d be ok with Laurent is if Thomas retires and they couldn’t find anyone at ALL in the draft.
I’d take Laurent on the cheap over a guy like Shmeckel, that’s it though. 

Unfortunately, Shmeckel is a Canadian so at some point (if he lasts) he'll make more money than Willie Jefferson ever would. The downside of the ratio is two bit no talent Canadians who have no business playing make big bucks while more talented Americans don't. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[Jesse]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Unfortunately, Shmeckel is a Canadian so at some point (if he lasts) he'll make more money than Willie Jefferson ever would. The downside of the ratio is two bit no talent Canadians who have no business playing make big bucks while more talented Americans don't. 

Want to provide an example of a non-starting Canadian making more than Jefferson?

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, Jesse said:

Want to provide an example of a non-starting Canadian making more than Jefferson?

You know exctly what I mean. Canadians are overpaid on both sides of the lines. We also know that Canadian OL make more money than Americans.  

[wbbfan]

On 12/8/2023 at 5:59 PM, Jesse said:

Want to provide an example of a non-starting Canadian making more than Jefferson?

None. Among imps it’s very limited too. 
Not including QBs, lawler. Though I haven’t seen the details on wjs newest deal. Lewis makes more. Not many guys in general other than QBs make more money than Willy. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by wbbfan