Call it what you want … you need to move on from Collaros

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, Dr Zaius said:

Calgary also moved on from Burris to Bo when Burris still had gas in the tank.

Burris still went on to have success but moving on to Bo was the right (and risky) call at the time

Drew Tate was supposed to be the replacement for Burris. Hank sealed his fate when he told a reporter after the semi final loss in 2010 that he would never play behind Tate. Obviously, Burris didn't respect Tate. Huff wasn't happy with Burris & traded him to Hamilton. Then, next training camp, the second for Mitchell he totally outplayed Tate & took the starter spot from him

Tate was a fool anyway. Completely goofy. I don't think the vets on the Stamps trusted in him as a leader seeing the way he acted on the field. Pointing fingers, screaming & calling out teammates. Tate dressed down an OL on the field in front of 30,000 people at McMahon Stadium after a sack. He was a young player & the guy looked totally crushed. I was at that game & It looked really bad which reflected negatively on Tate. The fans were booing him for doing what he did. His teammates probably had as much to do with Tate not being the long term starter as the play of Mitchell did. 

[Booch]

Brown is somewhat proven with the exact same oline...exact same group of receivers (for most part) the exact same coaches and environment his whole career...and basically the exact same system his whole time in the CFL ...he has proven really nothing other than at times looks pretty comfortable running the only thing he has known in the CFL...that's a big risk...especially going to a team that could be littered with unknowns and sub par talent.

He's gonna get his tires kicked but a 400k and beyond contract ..is probably pretty unlikely...and hitching a teams fortunes to him..and basically having nobody behind him is a huge risk...for the team and for him

I also not 100 percent sold on him as the heir apparent...or necessarily a future star ripping teams a new one game in and game out and stealing wins with his play.. 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, Booch said:

 

He's gonna get his tires kicked but a 400k and beyond contract ..is probably pretty unlikely...and hitching a teams fortunes to him..and basically having nobody behind him is a huge risk...for the team and for him

 

Sounds like exactly what the RedBlacks would do. They'll destroy him like they destroyed Dustin Crum... The RedBlacks, where qbs careers go to die.

Edited December 21, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Sounds like exactly what the RedBlacks would do. They'll destroy him like they destroyed Dustin Crum... The Renegades where qbs caerrers go to die.

The RedBlacks didn't want to spend any money on the HC position. And still don't even though it's obvious Bob Dyce isn't the answer. So, as an organization you get the results you pay for. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[rebusrankin]

The Renegades just haven't been the same since 2005. No life at all.

[rebusrankin]

I think my worry and that of many here about losing Dru Brown is that we're losing a guy who will go on to play at a high level for the next 10-12 years much like Danny Mac did after he left in 1993.

[JohnnyAbonny]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

I think my worry and that of many here about losing Dru Brown is that we're losing a guy who will go on to play at a high level for the next 10-12 years much like Danny Mac did after he left in 1993.

That’s what my gitch are most twisted about this off-season for sure 

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

The Renegades just haven't been the same since 2005. No life at all.

Whoops!

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

I think my worry and that of many here about losing Dru Brown is that we're losing a guy who will go on to play at a high level for the next 10-12 years much like Danny Mac did after he left in 1993.

If we lose Dru and he goes onto great success, good for him. No team can keep all it's young up and coming stars. I would rather lose Dru now and see what happens than to keep him and turf ZC. If Dru turns into this generational QB, and let's be serious, that's a long shot....then maybe we try lure him back in FA down the line. Worked for a few teams already. Mike Reilly, Henry Burris etc all QBs who left their original team for a starting opportunity and then went back when the starting job opened up.

[17to85]

Yeah Mike Reilly went back for an assload of money that crippled the team. 

The entire point is to spend less on qb and get good results.  

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah Mike Reilly went back for an assload of money that crippled the team. 

The entire point is to spend less on qb and get good results.  

That's all fine and good, but how long do you think we can save money if Brown were to emerge as a star? Not long, one season. How long could cutting ZC loose and finding out that Brown could not handle the starting duties cripple us? A long time potentially multiple seasons. There is no way that Brown signs anything more than a one year prove it contract on the cheap anywhere. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

33 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

That's all fine and good, but how long do you think we can save money if Brown were to emerge as a star? Not long, one season. How long could cutting ZC loose and finding out that Brown could not handle the starting duties cripple us? A long time potentially multiple seasons. There is no way that Brown signs anything more than a one year prove it contract on the cheap anywhere. 

If he was smart he'd sign another 1 yr deal here...with some starter caveats in it...if ZC falters or goes down...why ruin your luster going into the complete unknown and possible abyss somewhere else....stay where u are comfortable and actually making strides.....one more yr wont kill his earning potential in long run.....running off and being an epic flop elsewhere will tho...Think of James Franklin...looked good in the system he grew into and was showing potential to be next big thing....moved on...fizzled out.... a lil smaller sample size than Dru as Dru has 3 yrs under his belt as opposed to 2 like Franklin...but when he left Edm he looked nothing like he was there in T.O

[GCn20]

7 minutes ago, Booch said:

If he was smart he'd sign another 1 yr deal here...with some starter caveats in it...if ZC falters or goes down...why ruin your luster going into the complete unknown and possible abyss somewhere else....stay where u are comfortable and actually making strides.....one more yr wont kill his earning potential in long run.....running off and being an epic flop elsewhere will tho...Think of James Franklin...looked good in the system he grew into and was showing potential to be next big thing....moved on...fizzled out.... a lil smaller sample size than Dru as Dru has 3 yrs under his belt as opposed to 2 like Franklin...but when he left Edm he looked nothing like he was there in T.O

What gives me pause on the whole get rid of Zac and keep Brown train of thought is that our backup QBs have historically always been over rated by the fans. Barnes, Elliott, Marve....all guys who we raved about and thought like were a lock to be the next great CFL starter....none of them carved out any kind of CFL career beyond backup. Second, is the age argument. There are a ton of examples...too many to list...of QBs playing at a high level and leading their teams to championships well into their late 30s. It's a red herring argument imo. The third is the argument that ZC has not played well in Grey Cups so we should get rid of him. What has Brown done in big games, in fact what big games has he even played? We have no idea how he would respond to this kind of pressure and that would concern me greatly. In fact, what teams has Brown even beaten that are good? Way too unproven for my liking. He is developing nicely and on a team without a QB I would be glad to take him and give him a shot. That is not our current situation though.

I completely agree that the very best career move by Brown would likely to be to sign what you are describing this year. The only teams that might give him a sniff right now are train wrecks where success would be very difficult.

Edited December 21, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

What gives me pause on the whole get rid of Zac and keep Brown train of thought is that our backup QBs have historically always been over rated by the fans. Barnes, Elliott, Marve....all guys who we raved about and thought like were a lock to be the next great CFL starter....none of them carved out any kind of CFL career beyond backup. Second, is the age argument. There are a ton of examples...too many to list...of QBs playing at a high level and leading their teams to championships well into their late 30s. It's a red herring argument imo. The third is the argument that ZC has not played well in Grey Cups so we should get rid of him. What has Brown done in big games, in fact what big games has he even played? We have no idea how he would respond to this kind of pressure and that would concern me greatly. In fact, what teams has Brown even beaten that are good? Way too unproven for my liking. He is developing nicely and on a team without a QB I would be glad to take him and give him a shot. That is not our current situation though.

exactly...ZC was up and down a bit this yr, but so was the whole team....and at QB experience reigns supreme, and is key in going anywhere....Theres no way we move on from him this yr...this team is still set up to more than likely return to the Grey Cup again, and a few minor tweaks with personnel and coaching should again put us on top...I think lessons have been learned in 2022/23....

2025 is a different beast and should really be of no consequence right now....done right with the transition phase in 2024/2025 we shouldn't skip a beat...barring any unforeseen catastrophic injury epedemic

[Jesse]

47 minutes ago, Booch said:

If he was smart he'd sign another 1 yr deal here...with some starter caveats in it...if ZC falters or goes down...why ruin your luster going into the complete unknown and possible abyss somewhere else....stay where u are comfortable and actually making strides.....one more yr wont kill his earning potential in long run.....running off and being an epic flop elsewhere will tho...Think of James Franklin...looked good in the system he grew into and was showing potential to be next big thing....moved on...fizzled out.... a lil smaller sample size than Dru as Dru has 3 yrs under his belt as opposed to 2 like Franklin...but when he left Edm he looked nothing like he was there in T.O

I personally do not understand your line of thinking here.

If I'm Dru and I believe in myself that I'm ready to start, and teams are offering me starting money, why sign a one year deal to be a back-up? I don't see any motivation to do that.

Any of the risks you mention will be true one year from now as well, at some point you just have to bet on yourself. 

[GCn20]

38 minutes ago, Booch said:

exactly...ZC was up and down a bit this yr, but so was the whole team....and at QB experience reigns supreme, and is key in going anywhere....Theres no way we move on from him this yr...this team is still set up to more than likely return to the Grey Cup again, and a few minor tweaks with personnel and coaching should again put us on top...I think lessons have been learned in 2022/23....

2025 is a different beast and should really be of no consequence right now....done right with the transition phase in 2024/2025 we shouldn't skip a beat...barring any unforeseen catastrophic injury epedemic

For sure. There is absolutely no doubt that roster turnover will be happening and is necessary over the next couple years, but throwing out guys who are still performing at a high level is not the way to do it.

3 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I personally do not understand your line of thinking here.

If I'm Dru and I believe in myself that I'm ready to start, and teams are offering me starting money, why sign a one year deal to be a back-up? I don't see any motivation to do that.

Any of the risks you mention will be true one year from now as well, at some point you just have to bet on yourself. 

For sure. However, you have to look at what's available too. RIght now, realistically, there is Ottawa and maybe the Riders. Both are train wrecks. Wait a year and you might see openings with better teams with better chance of success.

[Booch]

8 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I personally do not understand your line of thinking here.

If I'm Dru and I believe in myself that I'm ready to start, and teams are offering me starting money, why sign a one year deal to be a back-up? I don't see any motivation to do that.

Any of the risks you mention will be true one year from now as well, at some point you just have to bet on yourself. 

what if no team offers him 400k plus....if he getting first time starter money...as he is still largely unproven and gets a first yr 200 and change deal...maybe pushing 300....then really is that a smart move....develop and prove yourself some more at close to that money...and get your dollars up

He has shown flashes ...in a system he knows, but no way am I hitching a wagon to him at 400k+ where u will have to roster an unproven backup....and then he struggles mightily. Can't see any smart G.M doing that...and its a very limited market as to where he could even go this yr.

 

9 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

For sure. There is absolutely no doubt that roster turnover will be happening and is necessary over the next couple years, but throwing out guys who are still performing at a high level is not the way to do it.

For sure. However, you have to look at what's available too. RIght now, realistically, there is Ottawa and maybe the Riders. Both are train wrecks. Wait a year and you might see openings with better teams with better chance of success.

like I mentioned....he has a limited market to choose from...and making the wrong choice could ruin him...or any immediate future big payday....Thats also what ZC and others have been telling him....move on....if....it's the right opportunity and environment

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

what if no team offers him 400k plus....if he getting first time starter money...as he is still largely unproven and gets a first yr 200 and change deal...maybe pushing 300....then really is that a smart move....develop and prove yourself some more at close to that money...and get your dollars up

He has shown flashes ...in a system he knows, but no way am I hitching a wagon to him at 400k+ where u will have to roster an unproven backup....and then he struggles mightily. Can't see any smart G.M doing that...and its a very limited market as to where he could even go this yr.

 

I guess teams could offer him a base 250k with play time incentives to 400k and that might be appealing to him and then offer another young good prospect the identical contract and let the best man win. Would that be enough to lure Brown away....maybe...to SOME teams but I ain't going to a train wreck for that. 

[Jesse]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

what if no team offers him 400k plus....if he getting first time starter money...as he is still largely unproven and gets a first yr 200 and change deal...maybe pushing 300....then really is that a smart move....develop and prove yourself some more at close to that money...and get your dollars up

He has shown flashes ...in a system he knows, but no way am I hitching a wagon to him at 400k+ where u will have to roster an unproven backup....and then he struggles mightily. Can't see any smart G.M doing that...and its a very limited market as to where he could even go this yr.

I don't know how many teams see him as a starter (only takes one tho), but obviously there's no starter making 200k. It may be a 200k base with incentives for starting games that gets him to 400k. 

But obviously the main goal of a GM is to find a QB. We see GMs commit to the next hot thing over and over again. 

[GCn20]

13 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I don't know how many teams see him as a starter (only takes one tho), but obviously there's no starter making 200k. It may be a 200k base with incentives for starting games that gets him to 400k. 

But obviously the main goal of a GM is to find a QB. We see GMs commit to the next hot thing over and over again. 

True..,.and we see QBs regularly bet on themselves and that might happen with Brown. However, rarely do you see the next great thing QB go to a tire fire and have success. When you see young QBs stepping up to have success its generally when they go to a situation where that team has strong pieces but is just a QB away from success. When was the last time a young inexperienced QB went to a tire fire and had success? I can't think of any offhand. Reilly went to Edmonton but they had a decent offence in place and all they needed was a QB1.

[Stickem]

17 minutes ago, Booch said:

....Thats also what ZC and others have been telling him....move on....if....it's the right opportunity and environment

..........that's the key.....right place...right time.....Looking around the league right now, I don't see it...IF Dru spent another year here it would make a helluva lot of difference....The way Zack has been playing I think Brown gets more playing time in 24'..In any event we also have a card we could play and that's to bring in Streve....I know it's a stretch as things look now but IF Dru pulls the pin here I hope we look in that direction...Never say never

[Jesse]

Just now, GCn20 said:

True..,.and we see QBs regularly bet on themselves and that might happen with Brown. However, rarely do you see the next great thing QB go to a tire fire and have success. When you see young QBs stepping up to have success its generally when they go to a situation where that team has strong pieces but is just a QB away from success. When was the last time a young inexperienced QB went to a tire fire and had success? I can't think of any offhand. Reilly went to Edmonton but they had a decent offence in place and all they needed was a QB1.

Sure, but this isn't like Buck Pierce waiting around for the right HCing opportunity. Brown will be 27 next year, is probably already champing at the bit, and doesn't have infinite time to wait around IF the perfect opportunity comes up. 

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Sure, but this isn't like Buck Pierce waiting around for the right HCing opportunity. Brown will be 27 next year, is probably already champing at the bit, and doesn't have infinite time to wait around IF the perfect opportunity comes up. 

Hey, I'm not saying he does have infinite time. Just saying if the contract from one of the tire fires doesn't blow me away I might wait one more year. What Brown opts to do...who knows. If the RBS or Riders offer me 400k hard money and I was Brown, I would probably take it on a one year deal.

Edited December 21, 2023 by GCn20

[Mark H.]

If I'm Brown, I'm also looking at what a team is doing with their OL

There were some pretty bad offensive lines in the league this season

 

[GCn20]

13 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

If I'm Brown, I'm also looking at what a team is doing with their OL

There were some pretty bad offensive lines in the league this season

 

Right now, there are no situations he can walk into (unless Calgary, Toronto, Hamilton become options) where he can be fairly confident of being the starter and having even a decent OL. I only list TO in the small chance that Kelly bolted for the NFL. Edmonton, Riders, and Ottawa all have terrible offences and all mainly because their OL's suck.

Edited December 21, 2023 by GCn20