Which Vets do we cut next season

[wbbfan]

It’s all Brett Favre stuff. A locker room this old has guys talking about it and thinking about it all the time. 

[Blue In BC]

Wow. I haven't read all the posts but the few I read sounded like lemmings running in unison off the cliff.  That's not the same as saying everything mentioned was wrong but can we at least wait and see how free agency plays out?

2 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

That last play before the 3 minute warning it was a first down play. Everyone in the building knew we were going to run the ball. I thought that would have been a great time to catch Montreal off guard with a passing play and seal the victory. There was very little downside because the three minute warning was going to stop the clock regardless. 

Except that if it's incomplete we'd be faced with 2nd and long. However that's what we faced be running on 1st down when everyone in the country knew we'd do that. As big an issue is not having a quicker route tree and release to avoid an obvious rush on our QB. One maybe 2 1st downs and the game would have been won. Just one 1st down and we'd have used up another minute on the clock even if we only moved the ball 11 yards.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Blue In BC

[kelownabomberfan]

2 minutes ago, Blue In BC said:

Wow. I haven't read all the posts but the few I read sounded like lemmings running in unison off the cliff.  That's not the same as saying everything mentioned was wrong but can we at least wait and see how free agency plays out?

Seriously, this is actually pretty mild stuff comparatively.  But yes, I think if we didn't start Biggie yesterday and we had run the ball on our last possession on 2nd and 8 we'd be planning the parade right now.  This is why one game can make the difference.  If this was a best of three, I'd say we win.  But one game it is.  

[Booch]

Just now, Blue In BC said:

Wow. I haven't rad all the posts but the few I read sounded like lemmings running in unison off the cliff.  That's not the same as saying everything mentioned was wrong but can we at least wait and see how free agency plays out?

we just need a few minor tweaks...some were already in house, and we also have to recruit/draft and keep players to build a more useful roster, ratio and positional depth wise, and also make better use of who/what we put on the PR

This goes with a change in coaching mindset to make what I mentioned in first comment work, and take advantage of any roster rules that are in place that will help us....do that...we should be right back where we were last night....don't...and I doubt we make it out of the West next yr

[wbbfan]

6 minutes ago, Blue In BC said:

Wow. I haven't read all the posts but the few I read sounded like lemmings running in unison off the cliff.  That's not the same as saying everything mentioned was wrong but can we at least wait and see how free agency plays out?

Except that if it's incomplete we'd be faced with 2nd and long. However that's what we faced be running on 1st down when everyone in the country knew we'd do that. As big an issue is not having a quicker route tree and release to avoid an obvious rush on our QB. One maybe 2 1st downs and the game would have been won. Just one 1st down and we'd have used up another minute on the clock even if we only moved the ball 11 yards.

We had the tools to fix every position in hand imo. That’s the real concern. Before lawler when was the last impact fa pick up? I really want oakman but I’m not expecting fa to change our team. That’ll either happen before fa or wont at all. 

[Doublezero]

22 minutes ago, Noeller said:

You missed the key part at the end where he says he has so much respect for Osh for giving him that chance....

Maybe, but even Collaros said (thanks for his honesty) that Schoen and Bighill probably shouldn't have been out there. He also said Demski and Sheed were playing hurt, Sheed with a 2nd degree hamstring tear. 

[Noeller]

does anyone know what the '24 draft class looks like? I know last year was pretty shallow... is this one supposed to be better? 

[Blue In BC]

17 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

We had the tools to fix every position in hand imo. That’s the real concern. Before lawler when was the last impact fa pick up? I really want oakman but I’m not expecting fa to change our team. That’ll either happen before fa or wont at all. 

We weren't in a position of need to pick up talent in free agency. 4 years later that's changed potentially as players have aged and SMS has gone up in order to retain them. In 2023 we added Lawler, Eli and Castillo which were very good additions. It's a plus minus question.  However, Maston, Taylor, Jefferson, Harris, Lawson and a few others were picked up in free agency.

Who do we lose voluntarily or otherwise that we need to replace in free agency or feel the immediate need to replace? There will be an enormous amount of talent available across the CFL in February. We'll make some choices.

 

[kelownabomberfan]

8 minutes ago, Blue In BC said:

We weren't in a position of need to pick up talent in free agency. 4 years later that's changed potentially as players have aged and SMS has gone up in order to retain them. In 2023 we added Lawler, Eli and Castillo which were very good additions. It's a plus minus question.  However, Maston, Taylor, Jefferson, Harris, Lawson and a few others were picked up in free agency.

Who do we lose voluntarily or otherwise that we need to replace in free agency or feel the immediate need to replace? There will be an enormous amount of talent available across the CFL in February. We'll make some choices.

 

we got Lawson via trade...with Montreal of all teams....

Cameron Lawson - Wikipedia

and who did Montreal take with the 9th overall pick they received from us?  Tyson Philpott....argh...

Edited November 20, 2023 by kelownabomberfan

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, Blue In BC said:

We weren't in a position of need to pick up talent in free agency. 4 years later that's changed potentially as players have aged and SMS has gone up in order to retain them. In 2023 we added Lawler, Eli and Castillo which were very good additions. It's a plus minus question.  However, Maston, Taylor, Jefferson, Harris, Lawson and a few others were picked up in free agency.

Who do we lose voluntarily or otherwise that we need to replace in free agency or feel the immediate need to replace? There will be an enormous amount of talent available across the CFL in February. We'll make some choices.

 

I believe we made a deal for Lawson....but none the less was an addition

This year if we cant lure Mason Bennett here...and or Kongbo I would like us to go hard at Adeyemi Berglund from the Stamps as a rotational piece Canadian for the Dline....I see him as a good fit here

There will be ample guys in FA to sift thru, and we need to focus more on those guys coming off entry level deals, who could take reps on defense in a rotational role if need be to fill our back end for ST's, as we let some of our guys get old in the tooth, and they are too limited in value with a small roster

[Super Duper Negatron]

1 hour ago, Blue In BC said:

Wow. I haven't read all the posts but the few I read sounded like lemmings running in unison off the cliff.  That's not the same as saying everything mentioned was wrong but can we at least wait and see how free agency plays out?

Except that if it's incomplete we'd be faced with 2nd and long. However that's what we faced be running on 1st down when everyone in the country knew we'd do that. As big an issue is not having a quicker route tree and release to avoid an obvious rush on our QB. One maybe 2 1st downs and the game would have been won. Just one 1st down and we'd have used up another minute on the clock even if we only moved the ball 11 yards.

I don't know about lemmings off a cliff. More like a bunch of lemons in a car heading slowly towards a cliff for 6 months, all of us screaming at the driver to adjust course, but the driver smugly going straight off the cliff anyways because he knows best.

The driver is Osh.

We are the lemmings.

This analogy sucks.

[Noeller]

6 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I don't know about lemmings off a cliff. More like a bunch of lemons in a car heading slowly towards a cliff for 6 months, all of us screaming at the driver to adjust course, but the driver smugly going straight off the cliff anyways because he knows best.

The driver is Osh.

We are the lemmings.

This analogy sucks.

wait are we lemons or lemmings? 

[Super Duper Negatron]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

wait are we lemons or lemmings? 

Dammit! 

I am going to leave it.

[deepsixemtoboyd]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

You missed the key part at the end where he says he has so much respect for Osh for giving him that chance....

Actually I didn’t miss that part. I know that Osh’s players love him for that. I just don’t agree that that’s how a coach makes decisions about who gets to play.

Players love him for his loyalty and that’s why players want to come here and stay here. That’s a good thing.

But when that loyalty is dialled up too high it becomes too much of a good thing. Strength tips into excess. And this excess leads him to start 2 injured players who have no business being on the field. Two players who ultimately compromise our ability to win.

And that is not a good thing.

Finally, let me be absolutely crystal clear - I do NOT blame Dalton Schoen or Adam Bighill. Of course they want to play! It is the coach’s job, however, to balance that sense of loyalty with realism… To make those hard decisions that actually give us the best chance to win versus give him the greatest chance of being loved in the moment.

And I know O’Shea‘s philosophy is that ultimately his brand of loyalty pays off in the long run. But I think his practice and philosophy lacks balance and yesterday it cost us again.

 

 

[Goalie]

28 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Dammit! 

I am going to leave it.

You need some lemon or lemming aid. 

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

I believe we made a deal for Lawson....but none the less was an addition

 

Yes....we traded for him....and Montreal got Tyson Philpott with the pick they got from us....who then proceeded to stick a dagger in every Bomber fan's heart with 12 seconds to go in the game yesterday....

[SpeedFlex27]

11 hours ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Kolo, Grey, Biggie, Houston, BA can all go, or step into backup roles. 
Can’t keep both OT’s however it shakes out. 

Start Hallett at safety, make Lawson the rotation guy on the line and find a big fat American who can push the pocket to play next to Walker. 

Briggs, Cadwallader, Bennett, Exume, Thomas are all beyond useless. 

All the globals on the PR are useless. Let a million front seven prospects go so we can keep a Japanese lineman who will never see the field? 

The gimmick punter can hit the streets.  
 

Hall needs to retire. Boudreau can Bou-Go. 
Quit trying to play ST like there’s a 75 man roster. 

Re-stock the  PR with actual prospects and re-stock the gameday depth with  guys who can actually play offence or defence.

Count me in the trade Collaros group. I’ll always love him for 2019 but we can’t pay 600k for a fair-weather quarterback. 

Pay Brown half that and use the rest to fix the back half of the roster. 

Pay Walters whatever it takes to come back and put MOS on a short leash like they had to in 2016. 

Build around a core of Brown, Olivera, Lawler, Shoen, Eli, Dobson and Richmond on O.

Cole, the Jeff’s, Wilson. Nichols, Holm and Parker are my only must-keeps on D 

Give Grant another chance with better ST schemes but I’d tell him to keep his apartment back home too. They might have wrecked him trying to use him as a running back this summer. 
 

Build for a year under those circumstances and we have a great shot at 2025. 

O'Shea will throw a wrench in all of this by keeping most of his veterans. 

[Noeller]

7 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Yes....we traded for him....and Montreal got Tyson Philpott with the pick they got from us....who then proceeded to stick a dagger in every Bomber fan's heart with 12 seconds to go in the game yesterday....

meh... that play aside, I'm more than happy with Lawson and what he contributes. 

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

does anyone know what the '24 draft class looks like? I know last year was pretty shallow... is this one supposed to be better? 

A bunch of guys deferred from last year is it should be stronger though you never really know till closer to the draft. Sudden nfl interest, guys getting hurt or going back to school etc. 

1 hour ago, Blue In BC said:

We weren't in a position of need to pick up talent in free agency. 4 years later that's changed potentially as players have aged and SMS has gone up in order to retain them. In 2023 we added Lawler, Eli and Castillo which were very good additions. It's a plus minus question.  However, Maston, Taylor, Jefferson, Harris, Lawson and a few others were picked up in free agency.

Who do we lose voluntarily or otherwise that we need to replace in free agency or feel the immediate need to replace? There will be an enormous amount of talent available across the CFL in February. We'll make some choices.

 

We needed to get younger, and better in the secondary pass rush depth nose tackle mac and dt. Didn’t go for any in free agency. 
We need most of those pieces again, especially db. Need to draft a young cheap ni rb, need a back up qb one way or another. 
 Castillo was pretty much a wash with legs actually. But legs could do all 3 jobs instead of the punter version of mourtada. Lawson was a trade the previous year and Eli just came back. 
 Keep in mind we lost out on guys like kongbo and desjarlais from our own group that went to the nfl too. 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, Blue In BC said:

We weren't in a position of need to pick up talent in free agency. 4 years later that's changed potentially as players have aged and SMS has gone up in order to retain them. In 2023 we added Lawler, Eli and Castillo which were very good additions. It's a plus minus question.  However, Maston, Taylor, Jefferson, Harris, Lawson and a few others were picked up in free agency.

Who do we lose voluntarily or otherwise that we need to replace in free agency or feel the immediate need to replace? There will be an enormous amount of talent available across the CFL in February. We'll make some choices.

, run and 

We needed a dominant nose tackle ALA Oakman all year and that was very, very evident in the Grey Cup game. Further, if Walters cannot score a NI fullback who can block, run and catch the odd pass, it will be a big black mark against him.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Tracker

[bustamente]

Re retirements and this is all speculation on my part but I think the Jeffcoat might call it a career 

[wbbfan]

54 minutes ago, Tracker said:

We needed a dominant nose tackle ALA Oakman all year and that was very, very evident in the Grey Cup game. Further, if Walters cannot score a NI fullback who can block, run and catch the odd pass, it will be a big black mark against him.

Tbh we have guys who can do the fb thing. We just have barely used them. Imo if you’re gonna carry 7 ol you can’t carry a fb unless they are your snapper holder etc. 

 I would love it if we drafted a big multi purpose back who can back up Brady carry the rock a bit, play fb, play some teams etc. physically some one like litre. 

[bigg jay]

3 hours ago, Noeller said:

does anyone know what the '24 draft class looks like? I know last year was pretty shallow... is this one supposed to be better? 

I believe so.  A bunch of highly rated prospects deferred their draft year to this year, iirc.

**Found the article**

https://3downnation.com/2023/03/22/personnel-people-confused-by-top-canadian-prospects-deferring-to-2024-cfl-draft/

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by bigg jay

[Colin Unger]

https://www.cfl.ca/2023/08/24/kurtis-rourke-tops-fall-edition-of-cfl-scouting-bureau/

[Fatty Liver]

29 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Tbh we have guys who can do the fb thing. We just have barely used them. Imo if you’re gonna carry 7 ol you can’t carry a fb unless they are your snapper holder etc. 

 I would love it if we drafted a big multi purpose back who can back up Brady carry the rock a bit, play fb, play some teams etc. physically some one like litre. 

Might be worth going after Ante Milanovic-Litre, real FB who can run, block and catch.