Which Vets do we cut next season

[JuranBoldenRules]

9 hours ago, GCn20 said:

We have dropped Biggie into coverage in zone, but I can't ever recall a single instance we asked our MLB to cover man against a receiver. It's never done because it is a massive mismatch. I'm not sticking up for Biggie, he looks like he needs to join the coaching staff now. Just saying that if a DC is putting his MIKE....and I don't care who that MIKE is or how old...into a man coverage responsibility it is going to be very bad for that defence. Completely unrealistic to expect a MLB to cover a receiver in man.

Hall mostly plays match coverages (meaning matching coverage to routes) so basically everyone but DL ends up covering man, especially when he's blitzing a bunch.  So if both slots run vertical like that one post and corner, Bighill can't just sit, neither can Alexander.  Alexander sitting on a route that isn't there is the bust on that play.

The offense dictates matchups based on alignment and motion.  There's only so much the D can do before the snap and then they gotta roll with it.

[JohnnyAbonny]

Different take. I don’t think Bighill said anything that bad. The Bombers tow the line so well that when somebody’s forthcoming about anything to the media it seems like a big deal. 
The guy was frustrated with everyone (correctly) saying he shouldn’t have been in the game, so he told everyone what happened on the particular play. 
The whole issue is on MOS. 

[bearpants]

18 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

fair enough.  Not sure if Wally even tried to sign him....point is Wally moves on from players...we don't see to be able to do that...and it just cost us a ship.

Everyone loves to point out how Wally always made the tough decisions and it made his teams better... but Wally decided not to pursue Bighill when he returned from the NFL and decided a 29 year old Andrew Harris was washed up... those two decisions alone are a big reason why we have our two most recent grey cups

[GCn20]

21 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Hall mostly plays match coverages (meaning matching coverage to routes) so basically everyone but DL ends up covering man, especially when he's blitzing a bunch.  So if both slots run vertical like that one post and corner, Bighill can't just sit, neither can Alexander.  Alexander sitting on a route that isn't there is the bust on that play.

The offense dictates matchups based on alignment and motion.  There's only so much the D can do before the snap and then they gotta roll with it.

I realize we play match coverage but you will normally always see the safety taking that coverage beyond 10-15 yards if the play continues vertically. You will almost never see the MIKE with the primary coverage beyond the 10-12 range when it goes vertical. Alexander definitely busted on that.

[WBBFanWest]

I find it a bit problematic that Bighill is actually having to explain something like this and say that the error wasn't his, because as has been said over and over, the issue wasn't really that play.  Mistakes happen all the time, it's part of the game.  The issue was that he had no business being out there.  I don't blame him for wanting to play, again, I'd expect nothing less from a guy like him.  The same goes for Schoen.  So for me, the issue is O'Shea.  It appears he sometimes chooses with his heart instead of his head.  Neither of those guys should have dressed, much less start and it's O'Shea's job to recognise that reality, say no, and give the team the best chance to win. 

I think it's the same issue with the SEAL.  For some reason, O'Shea seems to think that this is somehow a big deal.  Being a veteran myself, military service is fine but frankly, I give not one whit for this guy's American military service.  Now, if we had a member of JTF2 wanting to play, that might be another matter entirely, assuming he had the skills to do so. 

In either case, this may be why the guys love O'Shea so much, but if it costs us Grey Cups, maybe it's ok if they love him a little bit less.  I really hope that those above him have a serious heart to heart with him during the off season.  He's a great coach, but he's got this obvious blind spot that needs to be corrected.

[Super Duper Negatron]

I don't think Bighill was throwing anyone under the bus. I think he was responding to the "OMFG teh Als coaches are big headed geniuses!" and defending his own coaches by saying basically "there was a break down, it happens, but we didn't lose to a team playing 4D chess".

[Blue In BC]

13 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Where do you prioritize him around Jefferson, Jeffcoat, Schoen, Oliviera, the entire OL, Wolitarsky, Lawson, Walker?

There's a strong possibility he's asked to take a pay cut again and says no.

I don't know that it will happen but I'd like to see Collaros take a $100K cut. It's not a matter of what he is worth. It's a matter of his salary and how it reduces what can be spent elsewhere. The same could be said about Lawler.  It's a balancing act with no perfect solution.

I said the same thing about Kelly in Toronto. Let's see how they adjust their roster after giving him another $500K over his current deal. I'm not exactly sure of what his initial contract was but he's scheduled for a significant increase if he doesn't take his NFL option window.  Any increase somewhere comes at the need to decrease elsewhere.

[Blue In BC]

On 2023-11-20 at 4:29 PM, Tracker said:

We needed a dominant nose tackle ALA Oakman all year and that was very, very evident in the Grey Cup game. Further, if Walters cannot score a NI fullback who can block, run and catch the odd pass, it will be a big black mark against him.

Well sure, there are always some potential free agents that might be better than someone on our current roster. That said we were a veteran team coming off a 3rd Grey Cup appearance losing a close contest. The point was that SMS limits teams from just signing every other free agent that is an upgrade. We signed Lawler and Castillo. Brought back Eli.

Did we have more money to spend? IDK. I would have loved to have been able to get Sayles back but take that he left for more money. Couture left for more money but also because he is from BC.

How much more would that have cost if those two returned and who would we have lost elsewhere on the roster?

The roster is another year older. There will be some combination of decisions made.

We do want to retain. What free agents from other teams are we interested in and are they interested in our offer? Who are they replacing and is it costing us more or less than the one departing.

Step 1 is seeing who of our current roster we want back and can get back as free agency approaches

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Blue In BC

[rebusrankin]

In terms of players from other teams, I'd love to see Oakman DT in Blue and Gold.

[GCn20]

23 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

In terms of players from other teams, I'd love to see Oakman DT in Blue and Gold.

Not me. There were some behavioral and locker room issues with Oakman in TO this year. 

[Jesse]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I realize we play match coverage but you will normally always see the safety taking that coverage beyond 10-15 yards if the play continues vertically. You will almost never see the MIKE with the primary coverage beyond the 10-12 range when it goes vertical. Alexander definitely busted on that.

I haven't re-watched the play, but I had read that Alexander had been moved to HB while Hallett was at safety on that play.

[Blue In BC]

2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I haven't re-watched the play, but I had read that Alexander had been moved to HB while Hallett was at safety on that play.

Hallett was in at safety a lot. What I couldn't tell is whether they were using a 6 DB defensive set? I can't imagine Holm or Nichols coming out unless needing a rest or injury issue.

[Jesse]

1 minute ago, Blue In BC said:

Hallett was in at safety a lot. What I couldn't tell is whether they were using a 6 DB defensive set? I can't imagine Holm or Nichols coming out unless needing a rest or injury issue.

They didn't have an extra DB, and we had at least one injury so it necessitated having Hallett at safety and moving Alexander out. 

31 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

In terms of players from other teams, I'd love to see Oakman DT in Blue and Gold.

Not unless we seriously restructure the way we do things.

We don't spend at DT. 

[Super Duper Negatron]

Just now, Jesse said:

They didn't have an extra DB, and we had at least one injury so it necessitated having Hallett at safety and moving Alexander out. 

You want to point at how roster management can lose you a game, case in point. If Rose is on for Bighill, he takes Parker's spot, nobody moves around, no confusion, no touchdown.

[JuranBoldenRules]

25 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Not me. There were some behavioral and locker room issues with Oakman in TO this year. 

Ability issues as well.  Sure looks spectacular if he makes a play, but extremely inconsistent and too easy to move out of gap.

[GCn20]

19 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Ability issues as well.  Sure looks spectacular if he makes a play, but extremely inconsistent and too easy to move out of gap.

Haven't watched him a whole lot to be honest. Can't honestly say that I have watched the Argos much at all in the past few years. Does that make me an Argo fan?

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

In terms of players from other teams, I'd love to see Oakman DT in Blue and Gold.

The Bombers can no longer afford to pick off league best players as they did with Jefferson and Bighill, they are now on the other side of the ledger desperately trying to retain their own free agents.  

[GCn20]

45 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

You want to point at how roster management can lose you a game, case in point. If Rose is on for Bighill, he takes Parker's spot, nobody moves around, no confusion, no touchdown.

Rose should have been on for Parker anyway. We had numerous busts in coverage throughout the game, hell there was one on the 3rd and 5 made by Parker. Rose was our guy that sorted all that out pre-snap. Benching him in favor of Parker the last few games was a little odd imo.

9 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

The Bombers can no longer afford to pick off league best players as they did with Jefferson and Bighill, they are now on the other side of the ledger desperately trying to retain their own free agents.  

Yep, that's how it goes when you are at the top of the pile.

Edited November 22, 2023 by GCn20

[ddanger]

20 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

No way especially if they want to retain Schoen, I don't think a RB has ever made $200k in the CFL.

It would be nice to know what running backs make in the CFL. Easy enough in hockey you can go to cap geek

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, ddanger said:

It would be nice to know what running backs make in the CFL. Easy enough in hockey you can go to cap geek

https://3downnation.com/2023/04/18/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-running-back-and-fullbacks-for-the-2023-season/

[JohnnyAbonny]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Not me. There were some behavioral and locker room issues with Oakman in TO this year. 

Remember what it was? I missed that I guess. 

[Booch]

18 hours ago, Jesse said:

I’m not arguing for it, but I can’t even imagine a scenario that sees MOS cutting Bighill. Does not compute. 
 

I also don’t really believe the difference between Bighill’s salary and his replacement is going to make or break our cap situation.

If Osh cant make those decisions...then maybe he should be looked at to be replaced then....

 

16 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah mos won't cut bighill but a GM can take that choice away from him.

exactly this....and I think the back half of the yr Osh had to answer to nobody and hard carte blanche...and it wasnt good

Biggie this Jan should be given the option of taking a greatly reduced salary to be a role guy/st/in game emergency replacement, and if he balks then let go prior to any bonus....and he would know it's only business

No need to waste camp reps and bodies with him vying for a starters role at 36 years old....

6 hours ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Honestly, I felt this before the West Final. I didn’t want to say anything, but going into that game it felt exactly like the 2003 WSF. 

do u not recall me bringing thjis up early in the yr?..and its from a been there seen it before place...not just yip yappin

5 hours ago, bearpants said:

Everyone loves to point out how Wally always made the tough decisions and it made his teams better... but Wally decided not to pursue Bighill when he returned from the NFL and decided a 29 year old Andrew Harris was washed up... those two decisions alone are a big reason why we have our two most recent grey cups

actually...Wally didnt have the money to sign him...without bastardizing the squad elsewhere....and gave Biggie a best he could offer  offer....and well it was not nearly close to what he deserved or was worth...Wally's hands were tied there

[kelownabomberfan]

6 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Remember what it was? I missed that I guess. 

The Ar-blows are one giant locker room issue.   And it all came to a head in their year-end implosion.

[JohnnyAbonny]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

If Osh cant make those decisions...then maybe he should be looked at to be replaced then....

 

exactly this....and I think the back half of the yr Osh had to answer to nobody and hard carte blanche...and it wasnt good

Biggie this Jan should be given the option of taking a greatly reduced salary to be a role guy/st/in game emergency replacement, and if he balks then let go prior to any bonus....and he would know it's only business

No need to waste camp reps and bodies with him vying for a starters role at 36 years old....

do u not recall me bringing thjis up early in the yr?..and its from a been there seen it before place...not just yip yappin

actually...Wally didnt have the money to sign him...without bastardizing the squad elsewhere....and gave Biggie a best he could offer  offer....and well it was not nearly close to what he deserved or was worth...Wally's hands were tied there

I recall exactly that, felt it then too. 
 

It’s been repeated, but the TC with absolutely zero competition for any vets rang alarm bells with quite a few of us. 

[Booch]

3 hours ago, Jesse said:

I haven't re-watched the play, but I had read that Alexander had been moved to HB while Hallett was at safety on that play.

thing is...with our poor roster management we had to make 3 moves to cover 1 issue due to an injury, and thats what will happen...confusion and communication errors...It's not about BA not having it anymore...truthfully there is nothing wrong with his game....it's more how we deployed guys...Now if Clements was in Biggies role, and we had Rose on the roster...a smart savy vet...and one who all the DB's say is like a coach on the feild and makes them better as a group...well he steps into Parkers spot...and we aren't having this convo...BA is at safety....we have no communication issues with the corner and half and that play is broken up...picked off over the top or not even there for the taking...