SpeedFlex27 Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Booch said: Did Harty re-sign?...thought he was testing Free agency No, Harty's still on the roster so I included him. If he leaves & the Redblacks can't replace him then hooo boy will they be in trouble. Booch 1
Jesse Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 13 minutes ago, Booch said: How do you know he's gonna be the starter tho?...Crum is coming back ...same system...2nd yr in it, and if the coaching there gets better....he may outright win the starter spot And as It is now the QB on that roster with the most upside in my opinion is that Admas...so curious to see how he looks when he is healed up and totally this...they paying lil more in advance now, thinking he will be the next big thing...He could just become another in the long line of Jennings..Franklins...Arbuckles...I'd even throw Maier into that right now too....Wish him well, but he wanted to get paid...as well as have the chance to start....but if he was so sure of it too....Why not come to camp here as well on a one yr deal, with incentives and a clause if he beats out ZC outright...he will be compensated.....Everyone wants to start no doubt...this was more about getting paid decently now, as opposed to being payed fair now for the opportunity to be paid large later here We at least know the Redblacks hope and expect he’s going to be the starter. That’s why they traded for him and are paying him a starting salary. JCon and rebusrankin 2
TBURGESS Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 31 minutes ago, Jesse said: He’s going to be a starter so you have to pay him as a starter. He will not be among the highest paid, I’m not sure you have a guy who’s going to get 340 in the same list as Zach and Kelly (you actually forgot Kelly) who are making 600k. He’s pretty much making the bare minimum amount. I stand corrected: Collaros, Kelly, Harris, Fajardo, MBT, Maier, Brown, Adams. (One of these QB's is still not like the others) I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Brown will be the starter. Crumb has way more experience in the same system. 13 minutes ago, bigg jay said: Trevor Harris - first 3 seasons with Toronto: 76 passing attempts - only started one game. Dru Brown - first 3 seasons with Winnipeg: 102 passing attempts - only started 3 games. Trevor Harris prior to going to Ottawa to back up Burris: 6 Years of pro experience. (2010 Jacksonville Jaguars*, 2011 Arizona Rattlers, 2011 Hartford Colonials*, 2011 Buffalo Bills*, 2011 Sacramento Mountain Lions, 2012 Orlando Predators, 2012–2015 Toronto Argonauts) Dru Brown prior to going to Ottawa: 3 years pro experience. (Bombers) I don't remember Harris being paid as a starter when he went to Ottawa, they already had Burris' big salary on the books, so I doubt they paid two QB's as starters. Harris is a competent QB, but is he an example of paying big for hoped for performance that worked out?
bigg jay Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 6 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: Trevor Harris prior to going to Ottawa to back up Burris: 6 Years of pro experience. (2010 Jacksonville Jaguars*, 2011 Arizona Rattlers, 2011 Hartford Colonials*, 2011 Buffalo Bills*, 2011 Sacramento Mountain Lions, 2012 Orlando Predators, 2012–2015 Toronto Argonauts) Dru Brown prior to going to Ottawa: 3 years pro experience. (Bombers) I don't remember Harris being paid as a starter when he went to Ottawa, they already had Burris' big salary on the books, so I doubt they paid two QB's as starters. Harris is a competent QB, but is he an example of paying big for hoped for performance that worked out? You asked about reps, not years of experience, so that's what I showed you - a direct comparison of how many snaps they took. Besides, all of that "experience" isn't quite what you make it out to be when you look at what he did and how long he was with those teams. For example, how much experience did he gain in the 36 hours that he was signed to the Bills? The only team he actually got any game experience with was the Arizona Rattlers. I wouldn't say he got years of experience kicking around like that any more than I would say Tyrell Ford got a year of NFL experience last year. As far as his time as a starter goes, it started prior to Ottawa. Harris started 16 games with Toronto in 2015, when Ray was hurt so teams got a good look at him that year. He signed with Ottawa in 2016, and Burris had re-structed his deal so neither guy was making big money (for a starting QB) that season - they were both going to make around $250k + play time bonuses. Ottawa had structured both QB contracts in a way that it was clear Harris was the starter in 2017. Burris was going to make 200k in 2017 while Harris made 400k. Burris retired before the season so it didn't really matter in the end. https://3downnation.com/2016/11/24/henry-burris-trevor-harris/ Harris had led the league in passing TD's in 2015 with Toronto (was 3rd in passing yards too) so I guess that was enough for Ottawa to feel justified in the payout. BigBlueFanatic, TBURGESS, Noeller and 1 other 4
Fatty Liver Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 21 minutes ago, bigg jay said: You asked about reps, not years of experience, so that's what I showed you - a direct comparison of how many snaps they took. Besides, all of that "experience" isn't quite what you make it out to be when you look at what he did and how long he was with those teams. For example, how much experience did he gain in the 36 hours that he was signed to the Bills? The only team he actually got any game experience with was the Arizona Rattlers. I wouldn't say he got years of experience kicking around like that any more than I would say Tyrell Ford got a year of NFL experience last year. As far as his time as a starter goes, it started prior to Ottawa. Harris started 16 games with Toronto in 2015, when Ray was hurt so teams got a good look at him that year. He signed with Ottawa in 2016, and Burris had re-structed his deal so neither guy was making big money (for a starting QB) that season - they were both going to make around $250k + play time bonuses. Ottawa had structured both QB contracts in a way that it was clear Harris was the starter in 2017. Burris was going to make 200k in 2017 while Harris made 400k. Burris retired before the season so it didn't really matter in the end. https://3downnation.com/2016/11/24/henry-burris-trevor-harris/ Harris had led the league in passing TD's in 2015 with Toronto (was 3rd in passing yards too) so I guess that was enough for Ottawa to feel justified in the payout. Additionally Harris signed a low value contract with the Als in 2022 and promptly took the starting job away from Vernon Adams after Khari was fired. He led them to a second place finish and an Eastern Final appearance in which he completed 25 passes out of 30 attempts for 362 yards and one touchdown in the 34–27 loss to the Argos. He's not a scrub and can make things happen when set up in a good offence with decent protection. Mark H. and bigg jay 1 1
Jesse Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 1 hour ago, TBURGESS said: I stand corrected: Collaros, Kelly, Harris, Fajardo, MBT, Maier, Brown, Adams. (One of these QB's is still not like the others) Brown isn’t paid like the others either. He is being paid an entry level starter salary. Wanna-B-Fanboy and JCon 2
Brandon Posted January 24 Author Report Posted January 24 @TBURGESS it's called taking a risk and a gamble. I'd say it's worth it based on the options that they had. Fatty Liver 1
TBURGESS Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 @Brandon It's absolutely a gamble, but is it a good or a bad gamble? Is it a gamble that they had to take? (IE: Were their other bidders who pushed the price up?)
Goalie Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, TBURGESS said: @Brandon It's absolutely a gamble, but is it a good or a bad gamble? Is it a gamble that they had to take? (IE: Were their other bidders who pushed the price up?) I think 300k is going rate for a possible 1 who has looked as good as dru has now a days. It’s not Zack money. It’s 2nd contract after showing serious potential elsewhere QB going rate. Fair deal. Edited January 25 by Goalie Jesse and Wanna-B-Fanboy 2
TBURGESS Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 12 hours ago, Goalie said: I think 300k is going rate for a possible 1 who has looked as good as dru has now a days. It’s not Zack money. It’s 2nd contract after showing serious potential elsewhere QB going rate. Fair deal. It's more than Adams is getting. You know Adams, been in the league since 2016, thrown for more than 13,000 yards, ran for 1400, the third best QB in the league last year, took his team to the Western Final, that Vernon Adams. Noeller and ddanger 2
GCn20 Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 17 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: It's more than Adams is getting. You know Adams, been in the league since 2016, thrown for more than 13,000 yards, ran for 1400, the third best QB in the league last year, took his team to the Western Final, that Vernon Adams. I think you are misinformed on how much Adams will be getting this year. 17 hours ago, Fatty Liver said: Additionally Harris signed a low value contract with the Als in 2022 and promptly took the starting job away from Vernon Adams after Khari was fired. He led them to a second place finish and an Eastern Final appearance in which he completed 25 passes out of 30 attempts for 362 yards and one touchdown in the 34–27 loss to the Argos. He's not a scrub and can make things happen when set up in a good offence with decent protection. His problem is not his ability. It's his age and durability.
TBURGESS Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 8 minutes ago, GCn20 said: I think you are misinformed on how much Adams will be getting this year. How much is he getting then?
GCn20 Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 (edited) 9 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: How much is he getting then? His contract was reworked and extended on Feb 8/2023 thru the 2024 season. According to Dunk he was to get over 400k for 2023 prior to his contract extension. Stands to reason that he definitely did not rip up that contract and extend for less. I would hazard a guess that he is definitely in the 450-500k range for last year, and this coming season. https://3downnation.com/2023/02/08/b-c-lions-extend-contract-of-qb-vernon-adams-jr-through-2024/ Edited January 25 by GCn20 Bigblue204 1
Wanna-B-Fanboy Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 45 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: It's more than Adams is getting. You know Adams, been in the league since 2016, thrown for more than 13,000 yards, ran for 1400, the third best QB in the league last year, took his team to the Western Final, that Vernon Adams. Also, prior to last year VAj was a middling QB. Noeller and Tracker 1 1
Super Duper Negatron Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 10 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said: Also, prior to last year VAj was a middling QB. Hot take: he still is. 17to85, HardCoreBlue, Noeller and 4 others 2 2 3
Jesse Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 1 hour ago, GCn20 said: His contract was reworked and extended on Feb 8/2023 thru the 2024 season. According to Dunk he was to get over 400k for 2023 prior to his contract extension. Stands to reason that he definitely did not rip up that contract and extend for less. I would hazard a guess that he is definitely in the 450-500k range for last year, and this coming season. https://3downnation.com/2023/02/08/b-c-lions-extend-contract-of-qb-vernon-adams-jr-through-2024/ I forgot this one, so Dru Brown will be the only starter making less than 400k.
Booch Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 Just now, Jesse said: I forgot this one, so Dru Brown will be the only starter making less than 400k. Depends who starts in Ham....BLM is under now too correct?....obviously Powell is too....and whomever else they sign
Bigblue204 Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 1 hour ago, TBURGESS said: It's more than Adams is getting. You know Adams, been in the league since 2016, thrown for more than 13,000 yards, ran for 1400, the third best QB in the league last year, took his team to the Western Final, that Vernon Adams. I think you're forgetting he signed that contract while still a backup to Rourke. They were so set on VA being the #1 they went out and got Evans too. Like others have said his contract has been re-worked. Also what a weird ass hill to die on lol. Jesse and Wanna-B-Fanboy 1 1
Jesse Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Booch said: Depends who starts in Ham....BLM is under now too correct?....obviously Powell is too....and whomever else they sign I'm not counting them at the moment because they don't have a "starter". They have two back-ups who will most likely each get starts. So, in that case, there may not be one guy in Hamilton who makes more than Brown. All teams who know have an expected starter will be paying over 400k.
GCn20 Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said: I think you're forgetting he signed that contract while still a backup to Rourke. They were so set on VA being the #1 they went out and got Evans too. Like others have said his contract has been re-worked. Also what a weird ass hill to die on lol. He only re-worked the 2022 year of his contract to make it fit under the Lions cap for that year. 2023 he was still under the 3rd year of his Montreal 3/1.4mil contract from Montreal. Until they extended him last offseason that is, and presumably paid him equal or more money and added an extra year. In April last year 3DN listed his salary as 285k hard and 350 with bonuses. However, Dunk later wrote a retraction on 3DN that Adams salary was not reported correctly. Edited January 25 by GCn20 Bigblue204 1
Fatty Liver Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 1 hour ago, Jesse said: I'm not counting them at the moment because they don't have a "starter". They have two back-ups who will most likely each get starts. So, in that case, there may not be one guy in Hamilton who makes more than Brown. All teams who know have an expected starter will be paying over 400k. Missing out on Brown, the Ti-Cats don't have a lot of options left, I think Milanovitch hands the ball to Bo and tells him to "show me". I don't think they're counting on retaining Shiltz who could be a hot commodity as #2 on multiple teams, and I doubt Powell can win 50% of his games if thrown into the fire again this season, although he has the potential to be good down the road.
TBURGESS Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 2 hours ago, GCn20 said: His contract was reworked and extended on Feb 8/2023 thru the 2024 season. According to Dunk he was to get over 400k for 2023 prior to his contract extension. Stands to reason that he definitely did not rip up that contract and extend for less. I would hazard a guess that he is definitely in the 450-500k range for last year, and this coming season. https://3downnation.com/2023/02/08/b-c-lions-extend-contract-of-qb-vernon-adams-jr-through-2024/ From April 2023: https://3downnation.com/2023/04/17/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-2023-season/ Quote 8) Vernon Adams Jr., B.C. Lions (A) Hard money: $285,000 Maximum value: $350,000 The six-year veteran received a $115,000 signing bonus to ink a new deal with the Lions and will collect another $20,000 when he takes his first snap in 2023. He will also receive a $2,500 bonus each time he plays at least one percent of B.C.’s offensive snaps in each of the club’s regular season games. Note this is after the article that you posted & the article you posted said he'd make just over $400K IF he made all of his bonuses, which is definitely NOT $450-500K. From Jan 24/24: https://3downnation.com/2024/01/24/qb-dru-brown-signs-two-year-contract-with-ottawa-redblacks/ Quote Brown received a $137,500 signing bonus, part of his $286,000 in hard money for the 2024 season with playtime incentives giving him the chance to earn $340,000. In 2025, Brown is slated to earn $355,000 in hard money with incentives reaching $400,000. According to two articles from the same source, Brown, a complete unknown, is making more hard money with a higher signing bonus than Adams & his maximum is just $10K lower than Adams signed for last year. What I'd like to know, and I haven't found out, is what Adams is scheduled to make in '24. It's likely higher, but that doesn't change the fact that Brown is making out like a bandit because Ottawa is a crap team that has to overpay to get players, just like we used to be.
Jesse Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 58 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: According to two articles from the same source, Brown, a complete unknown, is making more hard money with a higher signing bonus than Adams & his maximum is just $10K lower than Adams signed for last year. What I'd like to know, and I haven't found out, is what Adams is scheduled to make in '24. It's likely higher, but that doesn't change the fact that Brown is making out like a bandit because Ottawa is a crap team that has to overpay to get players, just like we used to be. Yes, Adams outplayed his contract. Whether he already negotiated a raise or will during his next contract is besides the point. His value before this season was a sometimes starter sometimes back-up, which is why his salary was in the lowest tier. Brown, as an unproven starter, was placed in the same tier. Every other starting QB is making more. I have no idea why you're so focused on Adams, ignoring every other pivot and their deals. Bigblue204 1
Bigblue204 Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 1 hour ago, TBURGESS said: From April 2023: https://3downnation.com/2023/04/17/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-2023-season/ Note this is after the article that you posted & the article you posted said he'd make just over $400K IF he made all of his bonuses, which is definitely NOT $450-500K. From Jan 24/24: https://3downnation.com/2024/01/24/qb-dru-brown-signs-two-year-contract-with-ottawa-redblacks/ According to two articles from the same source, Brown, a complete unknown, is making more hard money with a higher signing bonus than Adams & his maximum is just $10K lower than Adams signed for last year. What I'd like to know, and I haven't found out, is what Adams is scheduled to make in '24. It's likely higher, but that doesn't change the fact that Brown is making out like a bandit because Ottawa is a crap team that has to overpay to get players, just like we used to be. A better comparison would be Reillys first contract as a starter to Browns. Pretty similar starting points if I'm remembering correctly.
TBURGESS Posted January 25 Report Posted January 25 12 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said: A better comparison would be Reillys first contract as a starter to Browns. Pretty similar starting points if I'm remembering correctly. I agree, but Reilly's the only QB in the last decade to get overpaid for what he'd accomplished and lived up to the hype.
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