2023/2024 Blue Bombers Off-Season Thread (BRADY’S BACK! DALTON’S BACK!)

[TrueBlue4ever]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Well then coach needs his eyes checked because those guys never should have been on the field in the Grey cup.

Well I recall certain posters saying that Schoen was fine, moving well, would be in, didn’t need the practice, and even if hurt a bit was valuable enough to dress even as a decoy, so Osh was not alone. Hindsight always 20/20 unfortunately.  And with Bailey, Demski, McCrae, BOLO also all beat up, who actually was left to play at receiver if we benched all our hurt players. Sucks but we got bit by the injury bug at the wrong time, had some bad red zone turnovers that cost us, and ran into a team playing over its head at the exact right time of the year for them. Lots of reasons we lost, dressing banged up all-stars was only one of them. 

Edited February 9 by TrueBlue4ever

[ddanger]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

looked him up online... he's a monster... looks built like Alan Ritchson (Reacher)........

That's who we need! Jack Reacher!! Him and Damian Jackson could be an amazing one two punch 

[Booch]

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-pmn/football-sports-pmn/cfl-football-sports-pmn/star-receiver-schoen-said-no-offer-was-good-enough-to-entice-him-away-from-winnipeg

Gotta like the kid

[blue85gold]

It's a long off-season.  Looking forward to more of this.

 

 

 

[GCn20]

13 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Well I recall certain posters saying that Schoen was fine, moving well, would be in, didn’t need the practice, and even if hurt a bit was valuable enough to dress even as a decoy, so Osh was not alone. Hindsight always 20/20 unfortunately.  And with Bailey, Demski, McCrae, BOLO also all beat up, who actually was left to play at receiver if we benched all our hurt players. Sucks but we got bit by the injury bug at the wrong time, had some bad red zone turnovers that cost us, and ran into a team playing over its head at the exact right time of the year for them. Lots of reasons we lost, dressing banged up all-stars was only one of them. 

Injuries are something that all teams deal with, and I guarantee that there were players on the other sidelines playing banged up as well. Would it have been nice to walk into that game completely healthy, you bet, but it was not a likelihood. Didn't hear anyone crying about Brandon Alexander or Chris Streveler playing with broken bones in our Cup wins and the only difference was we won those games. I guess it's only a coaching mistake if we lose.

Edited February 9 by GCn20

[Booch]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Injuries are something that all teams deal with, and I guarantee that there were players on the other sidelines playing banged up as well. Would it have been nice to walk into that game completely healthy, you bet, but it was not a likelihood. Didn't hear anyone crying about Brandon Alexander or Chris Streveler playing with broken bones in our Cup wins and the only difference was we won those games. I guess it's only a coaching mistake if we lose.

nobody knew Strev had a broken bone (outside the team)....and he was still producing and effective...last yrs guys were not...I also think that the BA injury claim it happened in game was a load of crap, as you can clearly see it at end when he jumped up and celebrated....and regardless as if he was injured...it happened in-game and he showed no signs of being limited...not weeks leading up to the game and his status was in doubt..big difference...huge...those 2 comparisons really hold no weight or validity at all...Schoen himself even said he was shocked he got the nod, and totally unprepared to play....another huge difference....facts are facts...3 poor roster decisions, and 2 other questionable one's did us no favors for the biggest game of the yr

Edited February 9 by Booch

[GCn20]

9 minutes ago, Booch said:

nobody knew Strev had a broken bone (outside the team)....and he was still producing and effective...last yrs guys were not...I also think that the BA injury claim it happened in game was a load of crap, as you can clearly see it at end when he jumped up and celebrated....and regardless as if he was injured...it happened in-game and he showed no signs of being limited...not weeks leading up to the game and his status was in doubt..big difference...huge...those 2 comparisons really hold no weight or validity at all...Schoen himself even said he was shocked he got the nod, and totally unprepared to play....another huge difference....facts are facts...3 poor roster decisions, and 2 questionable did us no good for the biggest game of the yr

Please tell me where Schoen ever stated he was not prepared to play. Shocked maybe,,,,unprepared? I highly doubt it. And so what if Strev was still producing and effective? What difference does that make. It only re-inforces my initial argument that a player can be injured and effective. Zac Collaros the year before, Strev in 2019, and laid a blueprint that if you dress a banged up guy he can still overcome that injury and be effective. Will he be a 100%...probably not...but these guys are warriors and suggesting that MOS made some kind of massive mistake not giving an absolute warrior like Bighill a chance to be one is nonsense. Did Biggie or Schoen shine in the big game. NOPE. Did anyone on the Bombers who were healthy? NOPE. It was a let down straight across the board and not because of injuries. The team didn't bring their A game simple as that. Schoen, Demski, Jeffcoat, Biggie, and all the guys that were banged up played through it and weren't liabilities in any way. Zac Collaros was healthy but he shat the bed, the OL was healthy but they shat the bed in pass pro, our secondary was healthy but they were terrible.

Edited February 9 by GCn20

[Bigblue204]

19 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Injuries are something that all teams deal with, and I guarantee that there were players on the other sidelines playing banged up as well. Would it have been nice to walk into that game completely healthy, you bet, but it was not a likelihood. Didn't hear anyone crying about Brandon Alexander or Chris Streveler playing with broken bones in our Cup wins and the only difference was we won those games. I guess it's only a coaching mistake if we lose.

Everyone plays banged up at that time of year no doubt. It's about how effective you can be. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's abundantly clear that Bighill and especially Schoen should not have been on the field for as many snaps as they were.

As was stated, your comparisons aren't meaningful as Strev was a secret for the most part....but was still extremely effective and Alexander as proven by video hurt himself celebrating after the win.

Edited February 9 by Bigblue204

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Everyone plays banged up at that time of year no doubt. It's about how effective you can be. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's abundantly clear that Bighill and especially Schoen should not have been on the field for as many snaps as they were.

As was stated, your comparisons aren't meaningful as Strev was a secret for the most part....but was still extremely effective and Alexander as provin by video hurt himself celebrating after the win.

BA says he played most of the 2nd half with the injury. Are you calling him a liar? Also my comparisons are meaningful as there is a very clear precedent of player playing through injury with great success that MOS would have considered when making his decisions on these guys. One can argue that in game adjustments should have been made for Schoen particularly, but it is nonsense to suggest that Biggie played poorly. He didn't make any highlight package plays but that's more due to lack of opportunity than anything.  Every uneducated football guy points to the TD where he couldn't get back into coverage as proof he should not have been playing. Wasn't his coverage assignment.  Other than that play explain where Biggie hurt us? 

Edited February 9 by GCn20

[voodoochylde]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

BA says he played most of the 2nd half with the injury. Are you calling him a liar? Also my comparisons are meaningful as there is a very clear precedent of player playing through injury with great success that MOS would have considered when making his decisions on these guys. One can argue that in game adjustments should have been made for Schoen particularly, but it is nonsense to suggest that Biggie played poorly. He didn't make any highlight package plays but that's more due to lack of opportunity than anything. 

If you couldn't see Biggie labouring and unable to make plays, I don't know what to tell you.  He was not particularly good in that Grey Cup game and really had no business being on the field.

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, voodoochylde said:

If you couldn't see Biggie labouring and unable to make plays, I don't know what to tell you.  He was not particularly good in that Grey Cup game and really had no business being on the field.

Don't know what you were watching quite frankly. Seems you have succumbed to the groupthink. I have watched the game several times and I watch between the whistles to make my judgement. I stand by my assessment of his play. At NO time during that game did I see him laboring or unable to make plays. Cite me ONE example on video that backs up your assessment.

Edited February 9 by GCn20

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Please tell me where Schoen ever stated he was not prepared to play. Shocked maybe,,,,unprepared? I highly doubt it. And so what if Strev was still producing and effective? What difference does that make. It only re-inforces my initial argument that a player can be injured and effective. Zac Collaros the year before, Strev in 2019, and laid a blueprint that if you dress a banged up guy he can still overcome that injury and be effective. Will he be a 100%...probably not...but these guys are warriors and suggesting that MOS made some kind of massive mistake not giving an absolute warrior like Bighill a chance to be one is nonsense. Did Biggie or Schoen shine in the big game. NOPE. Did anyone on the Bombers who were healthy? NOPE. It was a let down straight across the board and not because of injuries. The team didn't bring their A game simple as that. Schoen, Demski, Jeffcoat, Biggie, and all the guys that were banged up played through it and weren't liabilities in any way.

Scoen did say it....u dont need to believe me....could care less...also aid he hadnt practiced in well over a month as well...all factored in to n=being not prepared...if you had played at high level you might know where I was coming from.

Bailey and Schoen could not hardly run...and were a non factor and the Als stopped even really focusing on them.....Mcrae couldn't go either but was dressed as well...and sta on sidelines for 2 straight games...prob didnt even have cleats on. Yet we didnt give the one receiver that was 100% healthy (BOLO) a single snap....and reason why he won't be back this yr...he wants to play

Biggie had also no business out there...and was very ineffective and a liability more than a difference maker

ZC the yr before??...lol...another instance of good enough to go...but far from effective,, and if not for just one series should have taken a breather and seen what Brown could do....but alas...didnt happen....and 2 losses in a row now

Lotsa guys didnt shine for sure....but when you have 5 guys who are being compensated for, it makes it hard for others to shine too....when they being totally schemed out of the game by a smart coaching staff. And was the 2 turds we dropped a coaching failure?...and them not bein properly prepared, and coached up??...could be...could not be

 

 

I get it...some guys like yourself will defend Osh till death....and thats your choice...but u gotta see the forest thru the tree's sometimes

[Booch]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

BA says he played most of the 2nd half with the injury. Are you calling him a liar? Also my comparisons are meaningful as there is a very clear precedent of player playing through injury with great success that MOS would have considered when making his decisions on these guys. One can argue that in game adjustments should have been made for Schoen particularly, but it is nonsense to suggest that Biggie played poorly. He didn't make any highlight package plays but that's more due to lack of opportunity than anything.  Every uneducated football guy points to the TD where he couldn't get back into coverage as proof he should not have been playing. Wasn't his coverage assignment.  Other than that play explain where Biggie hurt us? 

He may have tweeked something...but as someone who has suffered that exact injury...2x...yeah..I call B.S on a ACL tear he played with....especially as a DB....You can actually finish a game off and play if it's a tear....but not a total tear....but with a brace...and a noticeable limp...he had neither....and you clearly see it happen at the end in celebration...and Biggie wasn't the guy originally responsible with that TD....I will give you credit there for realizing that...but a player who is healthy and not playing with a calf tear would have had the explosiveness to likely get there and break that play up...he could not..I bet Clements would have tho

 

4 minutes ago, voodoochylde said:

If you couldn't see Biggie labouring and unable to make plays, I don't know what to tell you.  He was not particularly good in that Grey Cup game and really had no business being on the field.

Osh 100 percent loyal supporters to a faukt dont want to see it...or believe it

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

Scoen did say it....u dont need to believe me....could care less...also aid he hadnt practiced in well over a month as well...all factored in to n=being not prepared...if you had played at high level you might know where I was coming from.

Bailey and Schoen could not hardly run...and were a non factor and the Als stopped even really focusing on them.....Mcrae couldn't go either but was dressed as well...and sta on sidelines for 2 straight games...prob didnt even have cleats on. Yet we didnt give the one receiver that was 100% healthy (BOLO) a single snap....and reason why he won't be back this yr...he wants to play

Biggie had also no business out there...and was very ineffective and a liability more than a difference maker

ZC the yr before??...lol...another instance of good enough to go...but far from effective,, and if not for just one series should have taken a breather and seen what Brown could do....but alas...didnt happen....and 2 losses in a row now

Lotsa guys didnt shine for sure....but when you have 5 guys who are being compensated for, it makes it hard for others to shine too....when they being totally schemed out of the game by a smart coaching staff. And was the 2 turds we dropped a coaching failure?...and them not bein properly prepared, and coached up??...could be...could not be

 

 

I get it...some guys like yourself will defend Osh till death....and thats your choice...but u gotta see the forest thru the tree's sometimes

I don't need to defend Osh. His record speaks for itself. Just not going to run with this narrative that inserting these guys into the lineup was a big mistake. Could we have managed in-game better, I have already stated we could. Was the roster managed right. Already voiced my displeasure with not giving BOLO reps, and not dressing Rose was a massive mistake as well when Parker was clearly out to lunch and then injuries hit. However, I will never ever succumb to the narrative that you leave Biggie and Schoen out of the lineup if you think they can go. It just needed to be handled better in game.

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Don't know what you were watching quite frankly. Seems you have succumbed to the groupthink. I have watched the game several times and I watch between the whistles to make my judgement.

on T.V??....Do you see the innefectiveness and inabiity to engage a play outside the tv view?..

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

on T.V??....Do you see the innefectiveness and inabiity to engage a play outside the tv view?..

Did you watch the game live in stadium? Neither did I? Can't criticize my viewpoint when it was the exact same as yours. We are both passing judgement on the same film.

Edited February 9 by GCn20

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

I don't need to defend Osh. His record speaks for itself. Just not going to run with this narrative that inserting these guys into the lineup was a big mistake. Could we have managed in-game better, I have already stated we could. Was the roster managed right. Already voiced my displeasure with not giving BOLO reps, and not dressing Rose was a massive mistake as well when Parker was clearly out to lunch and then injuries hit. However, I will never ever succumb to the narrative that you leave Biggie and Schoen out of the lineup if you think they can go. It just needed to be handled better in game.

key word...think...and know.....big difference....they weren't...neither was Bailey...orMcrae...and Demski was 50/50...

Just now, GCn20 said:

Did you watch the game live in stadium? Neither did I? Can't criticize my viewpoint when it was the exact same as yours.

nope....but I have people in football circles who did, and we have discussed it....and they all say same thing....so I will go with my experience, and their experience.....and from what I could see from Bailey...Biggie...and Schoen...yup....should not have been dressed

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

key word...think...and know.....big difference....they weren't...neither was Bailey...orMcrae...and Demski was 50/50...

You can't KNOW unless you are in their bodies. You go by what the trainers tell you and what the players tell you. All you can do is make the call based on that. Problem with GC week is that neither team gets a real honest practice to judge them as it's a circus and practices are little more than walk throughs.

Edited February 9 by GCn20

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, Booch said:

key word...think...and know.....big difference....they weren't...neither was Bailey...orMcrae...and Demski was 50/50...

nope....but I have people in football circles who did, and we have discussed it....and they all say same thing....so I will go with my experience, and their experience.....and from what I could see from Bailey...Biggie...and Schoen...yup....should not have been dressed

I have not spoken to any of the players or professional coaches that I know that were at the game. So I will consider what you are saying there. It very well may have looked different live and you are right I have never played professional ball.  NCAA was as far as I went in my playing career and CIS as far as I went coaching before I retired from football entirely. Not professional, but still good football.

Edited February 9 by GCn20

[Booch]

26 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I have not spoken to any of the players or professional coaches that I know that were at the game. So I will consider what you are saying there. It very well may have looked different live and you are right I have never played professional ball.  NCAA was as far as I went in my playing career and CIS as far as I went coaching before I retired from football entirely. Not professional, but still good football.

I can understand your take, and appreciate the opinion, also can see the point your are making...but in the end the onus is on the head coach to consider all...all scenarios...game possibilities and I think he failed bad. Never take a players word on if good to go, cause 99 percent will say yes....I got a few texts asking me about Bombers depth/PR etc and why the eff were certain players dressed?...as in did we have nobody?....I not a Osh hater  by any means...I just hate a few of his fatal flaws....and his stubbornness to do it his way...I also know some media will not go anywhere nearthe subject of calling him out, or making him explain things....cause it would effectively detroy any future chance for any quotes or soundbites from him other than his smug non answer remarks

[17to85]

Fact is that bighill is barely fast enough these days when 100%. Dinged at all his play drops off a cliff. Should have been out 100%. And schoen wasn't practicing at all... another should have been outm and Bailey was clearly hurt, should have been sat. But really with the receivers you want to play one dinged guy fine, but you can't do 3. 

[Goalie]

Grown men going on about stuff that happened months ago. You got the one guy who won’t be happy unless he’s the coach, you got others pretending they weren’t sauced watching the game on the TV. Seems fitting. 
 

The snow glows white on the mountain tonight
Not a footprint to be seen
A kingdom of isolation
And it looks like I'm the queen

The wind is howling like this swirling storm inside
Couldn't keep it in, heaven knows I tried
Don't let them in, don't let them see
Be the good girl you always have to be
Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know
Well, now they know

Let it go, let it go
Can't hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door
I don't care what they're going to say 

 

because it’s time Grown adults to let it go. 

[JohnnyAbonny]

Just saying @Booch and @GCn20 Rehash or not, agreeing or not, hell of a job having a considerate conversation. That’s how it’s done. 
 

A football debate between 2 guys that played and coached the game at a higher level than me? I’m here for it. 

Edited February 9 by JohnnyAbonny

[GCn20]

35 minutes ago, Booch said:

I can understand your take, and appreciate the opinion, also can see the point your are making...but in the end the onus is on the head coach to consider all...all scenarios...game possibilities and I think he failed bad. Never take a players word on if good to go, cause 99 percent will say yes....I got a few texts asking me about Bombers depth/PR etc and why the eff were certain players dressed?...as in did we have nobody?....I not a Osh hater  by any means...I just hate a few of his fatal flaws....and his stubbornness to do it his way...I also know some media will not go anywhere nearthe subject of calling him out, or making him explain things....cause it would effectively detroy any future chance for any quotes or soundbites from him other than his smug non answer remarks

In the end it's all just our opinion one way or another and how much benefit of the doubt one feels comfortable with. I just have thoroughly enjoyed watching Bomber ball the past 5-6 years, so I am willing to cut some slack.

9 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Just saying @Booch and @GCn20 Rehash or not, agreeing or not, hell of a job having a considerate conversation. That’s how it’s done. 

Booch knows his shyte, I'm not going to pretend otherwise. He knows that I do to but am just coming from a different angle. Therefore, mutual respect just takes over. Nothing he has said I feel is inherently wrong, it's just not my interpretation. Doesn't make my interpretation correct, or his, just a difference in opinion. At the end of the day all I need to know about Booch, and most of the guys on this forum is that we all live and breathe Bomber football, and hate the Riders. Any disagreement other than that is just how a forum generates conversation and how people learn more about the game. I've learned more about football from people who have a different outlook from me than I ever did from people who are aligned with my thinking. I think that stands to reason. When you are talking in an echo chamber you only learn what you already knew.

Edited February 9 by GCn20

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

In the end it's all just our opinion one way or another and how much benefit of the doubt one feels comfortable with. I just have thoroughly enjoyed watching Bomber ball the past 5-6 years, so I am willing to cut some slack.

yup....thats what it is all about...opinions...and worthy discussion over the winter....and the old shoulda woulda couda syndrome...

I as well am more than happy how things have gone last 5.6 yrs, and see it easily maintained....I am also a perfectionist to a degree...so adequate...good enough...looking back at success just doesn't cut it for me ....I look at your last performances, and over last 2...I see imperfection and failing to achieve the goal...I want more! lol