2023/2024 Blue Bombers Off-Season Thread (BRADY’S BACK! DALTON’S BACK!)

[wbbfan]

42 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Sure they do, and so does everyone else's pass rush stats. Does it really matter how you do it?

Agreed. He makes plays but also costs his team as well.

No they don’t. Go look at the pressure per offensive snaps. 
 It absolutely does. How many times did we see pressure that lead to a big qb rush or throw last year? All the difference in the world. 
 

 

[Booch]

5 hours ago, Jesse said:

Alford played division II college ball and it took one year with us to get an NFL look.

Oakman is 31, and played for Penn State and Baylor before going around different leagues since 2018. If NFL teams thought he was at that level, he'd have had a look by now. He didn't fall through any cracks.

He had a big off field incident that he was eventually exonerated from....that was the reason for the NFL blacklisting for most part...he is/was an NFL talent but huge allegations screwed him over

[wbbfan]

34 minutes ago, Booch said:

He had a big off field incident that he was eventually exonerated from....that was the reason for the NFL blacklisting for most part...he is/was an NFL talent but huge allegations screwed him over

Laremy tunsil went from possible no1 and top5 consensus to possibly falling down to 3-4th round then the dolphins grabbed him at 13 and made out like crazy. Wasn’t it his dad or some thing that did it to sabotage him? 
 Lucky whitehead got screwed even harder. Apb for some one matching his description. Had an alibi that involved the team, didn’t care they cut him. No charges quickly realized he was innocent and he was the wrong guy but doesn’t matter to the nfl. It’s messed up. 

[Jesse]

I have a hard time reconciling that with the fact that there’s a list of guys in the NFL with criminal records a mile long.

It seems to me that if teams think you can play, they find a way around the off-field stuff. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

I have a hard time reconciling that with the fact that there’s a list of guys in the NFL with criminal records a mile long.

It seems to me that if teams think you can play, they find a way around the off-field stuff. 

Yeah I'm pretty deep into following the draft stuff and Oakman was falling incredibly well before the set of charges that came down right before the draft.  He was one of the guys that was a sure-fire first rounder a year out (like after 2015 season the guys saying here's my 2016 draft board stuff) yeah mostly based on the freak body stuff and a jumbotron shot at the Cotton Bowl.  His senior year ON THE FIELD was awful and he was already off a lot of draft boards according to reports.  

Here's a NFL.com one before the charges which happened the month of his draft in 2016.  This basically summarizes his CFL career.  Low motor, weak lower body, gets moved around at will.  Yeah it's damn sexy when a 6'9 ball of muscle catches a back or QB at full speed.  But that's like 3 times a year.

Quote

1. Shawn Oakman, DE, Baylor: The prototypical "boom-or-bust" prospect, Oakman's size, physique, and flashes against dominance will entice some defensive line coaches to think they can "make a player out of him." His lack of lower-body strength, inconsistent motor chasing plays and inability to make plays against better competition have some believing he'll be a third- or fourth-round pick instead of the top-10 pick his physical characteristics would warrant. If he's picked later in the draft and is willing to put in the work to become better, some team could end up with a steal in the Calais Campbell/Chris Canty/Michael Johnson class.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by JuranBoldenRules

[Super Duper Negatron]

Anyone else counting down to training camp already? 

[bigg jay]

51 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Anyone else counting down to training camp already? 

Every year as soon as GC is done.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Anyone else counting down to training camp already? 

Or atleast rookie camp. 

[JCon]

I'm counting down FA, then the draft. Those are the two offseason high points for me. 

[GCn20]

19 hours ago, wbbfan said:

No they don’t. Go look at the pressure per offensive snaps. 
 It absolutely does. How many times did we see pressure that lead to a big qb rush or throw last year? All the difference in the world. 
 

 

How many times did teams score against us comparatively. Teams are going to make plays against you. It is 100% unrealistic to expect otherwise and really is a red herring to point that out. Play calls and game plans are calculated risks that you can make enough plays to keep the opposition from scoring more than your team will score. The Bombers were very, very good at that. That is just straight up fact. It is myopic to look at one aspect of a defence without putting the net result game to game, and over the year, into the equation. Our defence was rock solid all year and was a top 2 defence in this league....and no it does not matter one iota how exactly we got there. The result is irrefutable. We do a lot of things on DL to aid our Lbers, and secondary that takes away from the pass rush. Our main goal with our DL is to disrupt the play, we have heard this ad nauseum over several years. Pass rush is just one way a DL does that.

Edited December 6, 2023 by GCn20

[Stickem]

Getting back to Oakman.....I thought he did 'diddly' in the argo's loss to Mont......In fact he took a shot at one of the Al's O Line guys and just about took his head off with a helmet to helmet....Should of been chucked for that one but only received a 15 yarder at an important juncture of the game ...Size doesn't always equate to talent and I would pass on the guy in fa

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Getting back to Oakman.....I thought he did 'diddly' in the argo's loss to Mont......In fact he took a shot at one of the Al's O Line guys and just about took his head off with a helmet to helmet....Should of been chucked for that one but only received a 15 yarder at an important juncture of the game ...Size doesn't always equate to talent and I would pass on the guy in fa

I agree. Oakman had a great season a few years ago and has been a loose cannon ever since. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

If we poach anyone from the Arblows defensive front 4, it better be Dewayne Hendrix - underrated beast. He tears off faces in the shadows.

[Booch]

Just now, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

If we poach anyone from the Arblows defensive front 4, it better be Dewayne Hendrix - underrated beast. He tears off faces in the shadows.

beat me to it...that be my target on theArgos front

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

7 minutes ago, Booch said:

beat me to it...that be my target on theArgos front

I just hope he isn't Micha Johnson 2.0....

Successful because of those around him.

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

I just hope he isn't Micha Johnson 2.0....

Successful because of those around him.

I'd take a young Micah Johnson over what we have.

[Booch]

Just now, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

I just hope he isn't Micha Johnson 2.0....

Successful because of those around him.

You don't think having the Jeff's bookending him would a good thing?...he would excel here in that situation

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

8 minutes ago, Booch said:

You don't think having the Jeff's bookending him would a good thing?...he would excel here in that situation

Good point.

[Noeller]

3 hours ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Anyone else counting down to training camp already? 

it took me a good week to get over the loss... the depression was very real. But I'm ramping up for next year..... as JCon mentioned, I'm getting ready for FA and the CIS Draft.... then Rookie Camp and Full TC. Can't freaking wait...

[GCn20]

27 minutes ago, Noeller said:

it took me a good week to get over the loss... the depression was very real. But I'm ramping up for next year..... as JCon mentioned, I'm getting ready for FA and the CIS Draft.... then Rookie Camp and Full TC. Can't freaking wait...

It's going to be a big offseason for sure. Lots of changes coming I am sure. Some good, some bad. I have full confidence that we will be a contender by the start of the year though.

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

How many times did teams score against us comparatively. Teams are going to make plays against you. It is 100% unrealistic to expect otherwise and really is a red herring to point that out. Play calls and game plans are calculated risks that you can make enough plays to keep the opposition from scoring more than your team will score. The Bombers were very, very good at that. That is just straight up fact. It is myopic to look at one aspect of a defence without putting the net result game to game, and over the year, into the equation. Our defence was rock solid all year and was a top 2 defence in this league....and no it does not matter one iota how exactly we got there. The result is irrefutable. We do a lot of things on DL to aid our Lbers, and secondary that takes away from the pass rush. Our main goal with our DL is to disrupt the play, we have heard this ad nauseum over several years. Pass rush is just one way a DL does that.

Score can’t be reflected on one aspect of a team. Reductio ad absurdum. 
 Our defence was terrible at tackling. Our kick cover teams were miserable. By your standard, it was all great. 
 We do not do things on the dl to aid our lbers. We literally do the exact opposite. Our lbers funnel support entirely to dl and dbs. That’s why our tackle and plays made totals are always low at lber. You are completely and hopelessly lost and with out understanding at a basic level of how defence and our defence works, and is graded. 

2 hours ago, Stickem said:

Getting back to Oakman.....I thought he did 'diddly' in the argo's loss to Mont......In fact he took a shot at one of the Al's O Line guys and just about took his head off with a helmet to helmet....Should of been chucked for that one but only received a 15 yarder at an important juncture of the game ...Size doesn't always equate to talent and I would pass on the guy in fa

Most every one did. The collapse was as complete or more so than our 01 gc collapse. Doesn’t mean guys are undesirable. 
 

1 hour ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

If we poach anyone from the Arblows defensive front 4, it better be Dewayne Hendrix - underrated beast. He tears off faces in the shadows.

he’d be a stellar pick up too. The Argos D is jam packed with talent. It’s ridiculous, and I’m sure teams are gonna feast on them in free agency. 

[Fatty Liver]

On 2023-12-06 at 9:40 AM, Noeller said:

it took me a good week to get over the loss... the depression was very real. But I'm ramping up for next year..... as JCon mentioned, I'm getting ready for FA and the CIS Draft.... then Rookie Camp and Full TC. Can't freaking wait...

This interview should bring a little sunshine your way.

https://www.bluebombers.com/2023/12/05/willie-jefferson-re-signing-media-december-5-2023/

 

I'd love to get one of those off-center wide brim hats Willie is sporting, but just know I'd look goofy as hell wearing it.

[GCn20]

On 2023-12-06 at 12:22 PM, wbbfan said:

Score can’t be reflected on one aspect of a team. Reductio ad absurdum. 
 Our defence was terrible at tackling. Our kick cover teams were miserable. By your standard, it was all great. 
 We do not do things on the dl to aid our lbers. We literally do the exact opposite. Our lbers funnel support entirely to dl and dbs. That’s why our tackle and plays made totals are always low at lber. You are completely and hopelessly lost and with out understanding at a basic level of how defence and our defence works, and is graded. 

Most every one did. The collapse was as complete or more so than our 01 gc collapse. Doesn’t mean guys are undesirable. 
 

he’d be a stellar pick up too. The Argos D is jam packed with talent. It’s ridiculous, and I’m sure teams are gonna feast on them in free agency. 

This might be the stupidest thing I've read at this forum in a long, long time....and you are calling me hopelessly lost? SMH. There are times we are using LBers to aid the DL, and there are times we are using the DEs to help out the LBers. That is not even remotely arguable and is entirely without merit to say otherwise. I know precisely how a defence works, I coached for years and what you are saying makes absolutely no sense. Each component of the defence will have schemes where their members are helping out in assignment. Are you suggesting that WIllie never slides out into the flats to help the outside LBer? Of course he does. Hell we will sometimes go 3-4 with Willie sliding into the 4th LBer slot.

Also, at no point did I say score could be reflected on one aspect of a team. What I was asking, and I thought it was pretty obvious given the context, was how many points did teams score against our defence because we like to bring Lbers to pressure the QB? There is nothing absurd about breaking that down in the context of what you were trying to claim. It does shoot a big hole in your argument though, so I get your effort to discredit my argument no matter how logical it is. You want to grade our overall team defence by one aspect, DL ability to pressure, and I say baloney to that. The only way to judge a team defence effectively is to look at the number of points they surrender. It is the gold standard of measurement in that regard.

You can jump up and down about how using LBers in pressure hurts us, I say where is the proof of that. There is none. It is simply part of Hall's system and is the way we have operated for years. Hell, Hall was doing that when he was in Saskatchewan even. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by GCn20

[Booch]

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

This interview should bring a little sunshine your way.

https://www.bluebombers.com/2023/12/05/willie-jefferson-re-signing-media-december-5-2023/

 

I'd love to get one of those off-center wide brim hats Willie is sporting, but just know I'd look goofy as hell wearing it.

Just a good dude...his final statements as well say a lot about him and how the other core vets power this machine 

[Stickem]

Willie is Mr. Winnipeg....The man just comes across as genuine and humble and brings a lot to this club....His enthusiasm has to be infectious in the locker room and certainly breeds the winning spirit we currently have....Gald he's on our club ....we ceratinly have a winner in Willie